pregnant and applying to my dream job... need advice!

[Katera]

Sorry but that is a pretty unfriendly to family - which you are a part of at home, or were a part of.

 

Yes sometimes the young family parent needs some time off, but we as a society WAY undervalue the value of parenting and spending time with our youngest citizens.

 

The OPs question is about applying for a job when she is pregnant.

 

 

 

 

This person was being real.  He/she had extra work, none of which was paid back because his/her co-worker became pregnant.  That extra work could of affected their home life adversely through no fault of their own.  How is that their fault?  I actually applaud their honestly.  Like it or not, this is *exactly* what the original poster will be doing to those working at the job now.  If she does not disclose it, you can bet your butt they will resent it.  That is the real world, welcome to it.

[ventana]

This person was being real.  He/she had extra work, none of which was paid back because his/her co-worker became pregnant.  That extra work could of affected their home life adversely through no fault of their own.  How is that their fault?  I actually applaud their honestly.  Like it or not, this is *exactly* what the original poster will be doing to those working at the job now.  If she does not disclose it, you can bet your butt they will resent it.  That is the real world, welcome to it.

Nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to do extra work.

The fact of the matter is these large hospital systems make millions a year and focus on overworking their workers. If someone is not capable to discussion with HR that they do not have any extra time in their schedule to absorb more work, and simply can no do any more. Well that is on them, not on the mother taking care of and nurturing a new born at home, or in some other way helping raise a child........

 

I get the whole team player thing, but that is not a defense for saying women should not get pregnant and have babies. That is just to short sighted.

 

Again it comes down to defining limits on your own job performance and expectations. It is hard to do, but as professionals we all have to do it.

[SedRate]

Nobody put a gun to their head and forced them to do extra work.

The fact of the matter is these large hospital systems make millions a year and focus on overworking their workers. If someone is not capable to discussion with HR that they do not have any extra time in their schedule to absorb more work, and simply can no do any more. Well that is on them, not on the mother taking care of and nurturing a new born at home, or in some other way helping raise a child........

 

I get the whole team player thing, but that is not a defense for saying women should not get pregnant and have babies. That is just to short sighted.

 

Again it comes down to defining limits on your own job performance and expectations. It is hard to do, but as professionals we all have to do it.

Nobody said she shouldn't get pregnant or have kids. I'm not sure where you got that impression. I actually agree with your previous statement that she should wait until the baby comes and then decide what to do. After all, having a new job, new field, new family dynamic (stay-at-home dad/husband), and new baby is A LOT to take on in such a short amount time. I'm not discouraging her from her dream job and family. I'm encouraging her to think twice about her next step, that's all, especially because it involves several parties besides herself.

 

As for the extra work comment, my experience was at a previous place of employment in research. Can't put an expensive, large research project on hold for someone's pregnancy. It created a stressful environment for all parties involved EXCEPT for the pregnant female who just didn't care. So much for supporting your colleagues and the work "family." Nowadays, it's a different story. You're right, there is no gun and I wouldn't just accept the extra work. Thankfully, I also work a job where a situation like that won't happen.

[overthehorizen]

Any physician in a group who is upset that a new PA is pregnant when she started work is not someone who sees you as a colleague. He sees you as a mere short-term employee. Do not share this private information with any potential employer. It is none of their business. They have no right to be upset when you arrive and declare your pregnant. 

[ajnelson]

I am a female with young child (just over 1yo). I didn't know until well into my pregnancy (10-11 weeks) that I was pregnant, and I was interviewing and looking for a new job at that time. No. I didn't tell my prospective employer during the interview (as I had only known for a day). I did disclose once I had the job offer. And, yes, 3 months in, I took leave. Guess what? I'm back. Working full time. Picking up over time once a month, just like everyone else. And I'm a single mom. So, hearing you all bash women for having kids is a little offensive. Not all of us take tons of time off or don't pull out share. And I can point out men that I've worked with that have done the same

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

I am a female with young child (just over 1yo). I didn't know until well into my pregnancy (10-11 weeks) that I was pregnant, and I was interviewing and looking for a new job at that time. No. I didn't tell my prospective employer during the interview (as I had only known for a day). I did disclose once I had the job offer. And, yes, 3 months in, I took leave. Guess what? I'm back. Working full time. Picking up over time once a month, just like everyone else. And I'm a single mom. So, hearing you all bash women for having kids is a little offensive. Not all of us take tons of time off or don't pull out share. And I can point out men that I've worked with that have done the same

I'm curious what the male circumstances were.

[ajnelson]

I'm curious what the male circumstances were.

I work in the ED. Plenty of co-workers, male and female, kids or no kids, that aren't willing to be flexible, pull overtime, trade shifts, etc. Usually no specific reason.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

I didn't either, after a while, once it became clear that it was a trend and good intentions were being taken advantage of. One of the reasons I left EM after ten years. IMO this example doesn't equate to a M-F surgical position.

[Katera]

So, hearing you all bash women for having kids is a little offensive. Not all of us take tons of time off or don't pull out share. And I can point out men that I've worked with that have done the same

 

And there it is...the inner snowflake against the light of truth emerges...You say "men that I've worked with that have done the same thing..."  Umm, how many of those men got pregnant?  How many took leave when their wife or GF got pregnant?   It's simply a very selfish act to commit to a job when other colleagues MUST count on you to pull your weight, and then leave them holding the bag knowing full well you were going to be out an extended time *before you were hired*.  Selfish, plain and simple.  And if you don't believe they see it or you that way, then you're not paying attention.  They certainly do.

[ajnelson]

And there it is...the inner snowflake against the light of truth emerges...You say "men that I've worked with that have done the same thing..." Umm, how many of those men got pregnant? How many took leave when their wife or GF got pregnant? It's simply a very selfish act to commit to a job when other colleagues MUST count on you to pull your weight, and then leave them holding the bag knowing full well you were going to be out an extended time *before you were hired*. Selfish, plain and simple. And if you don't believe they see it or you that way, then you're not paying attention. They certainly do.

And this is where I leave the conversation. The name calling is completely inappropriate. Life happens. Both with men and women. And assume just because I have/had/could have a child that I can't pull my weight is ridiculous. And this is why women will always have to fight for equal rights in the work place.

[rev ronin]

Guys, let's keep this civil and focused on things we can change.

 

Here's my story: as a 40's year old male, I made it perfectly clear in all my interviews that I have a "maturing" family and my youngest is 11.  Is it required? Absolutely not: they can't ask, but I can self-disclose.  Did it help me get jobs. rather than other PAs?  Probably.  I'm competing against women of childbearing age, just based on demographics of who's graduating from PA programs, so I make it clear that my only schedule impacts are fire department obligations.  That's at least as much of a d*ck move as a woman not telling of her current pregnancy status: I intentionally and flagrantly used my 'reproduction complete' status as leverage to get employers to choose me over them.  As a White Male heterosexual Christian, I am otherwise just about the least desirable candidate.

 

I also chose to avoid high-paying, high-stress, long-hours salaried jobs, and so my compensation is low for my specialty, area, and experience.  In my case, this is so I can dedicate time to my fire department and EMT teaching obligations, but it's the exact same sort of tradeoffs many female PAs with kids make: make less money to accept more flexibility.  Thus, I STILL get paid "like a woman" to the extent that employers are able to lowball providers, male or female, who value family time and other interests over 50+ hour workweeks.  Given that more women than men have historically chosen to devote time to care for children or aging elders, I do not ever expect a "wage gap" to close.  To the extent that it's not about gender (not dismissing that 'pure' sex-based discrimination still exists), much of the wage gap is because men will take stupid hours at high rates of pay more often than women will.

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Guys, let's keep this civil and focused on things we can change.

 

Here's my story: as a 40's year old male, I made it perfectly clear in all my interviews that I have a "maturing" family and my youngest is 11. Is it required? Absolutely not: they can't ask, but I can self-disclose. Did it help me get jobs. rather than other PAs? Probably. I'm competing against women of childbearing age, just based on demographics of who's graduating from PA programs, so I make it clear that my only schedule impacts are fire department obligations. That's at least as much of a d*ck move as a woman not telling of her current pregnancy status: I intentionally and flagrantly used my 'reproduction complete' status as leverage to get employers to choose me over them. As a White Male heterosexual Christian, I am otherwise just about the least desirable candidate.

 

I also chose to avoid high-paying, high-stress, long-hours salaried jobs, and so my compensation is low for my specialty, area, and experience. In my case, this is so I can dedicate time to my fire department and EMT teaching obligations, but it's the exact same sort of tradeoffs many female PAs with kids make: make less money to accept more flexibility. Thus, I STILL get paid "like a woman" to the extent that employers are able to lowball providers, male or female, who value family time and other interests over 50+ hour workweeks. Given that more women than men have historically chosen to devote time to care for children or aging elders, I do not ever expect a "wage gap" to close. To the extent that it's not about gender (not dismissing that 'pure' sex-based discrimination still exists), much of the wage gap is because men will take stupid hours at high rates of pay more often than women will.

I did the same for my current position. I even showed them my low T level, told them I was a couch potato, didn't have the energy to produce another kid, and had missed less than a week due to illness over thirty plus years. "I'll even work for less money for these hours". It threw them for such a loop that they even paid me more!

 

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[SedRate]

I did the same for my current position. I even showed them my low T level, told them I was a couch potato, didn't have the energy to produce another kid, and had missed less than a week due to illness over thirty plus years. "I'll even work for less money for these hours". It threw them for such a loop that they even paid me more!

 

Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk

Lol!

[south]

Let's stop the purposeful misunderstanding for the purposes of taking offense before it gets started.  

 

I haven't seen anyone bashing someone for working or becoming pregnant.  

 

The reserves thing is valid and I have seen that exact thing happen.  In fact I have seen abuses of the USERRA family of laws that would make you sick.  

 

I will put my Active, Reserve, National Guard and Federal GS service (union rep, in fact) up for anyone to tell me I'm wrong to get pissed and "offended" when people do that.  

 

To me, it spits directly in the face of my brother and sister Reservists and the employers that back them up.

 

We even have a nice name for those types, which I will refrain, family show, and they are not uncommon.  

 

Speaking of rights...

 

I have the RIGHT to stand on my side of my chain link fence or in my driveway and stare at you or call you and your family obscene names as they come and go.

 

I have the RIGHT to wander the airport terminal with a slung AR-15 loaded and chambered with 100-rd drum magazine.  (Google this; this happened here where I live).

 

OJ had a RIGHT to explain to the world that he killed Nicole and Ron and write a book explaining exactly how.  Which he did.

 

The guy who sits at the park adjoining my kids' former school and takes thousands of pictures of kids at recess was confirmed by Superior Court that he has the RIGHT to take all the pictures of the kids that he wants.  

 

Are any of these things probably a good idea?  Compatible with a good working environment?  Any real d--- moves among those?

 

OP has already indicated that she's uncomfortable with concealing that information - which, under the law, is her right - and I'm cool with whatever she decides.  

 

And for the record, I hope she gets hired and they are excited about helping her out getting started in so many important ways, and she has 78 more kids and make a zillion baskrillion dollars working in the field she loves for the next 100 years.  

 

You'll just have to pardon me as I find it hard to believe that her co-workers and bosses are actually Kum-By-Yah about the idea of her sandbagging them and costing them (each personally) all that time and money.  

 

Maybe I'm just a ----, but , team player?  

[south]

I just typed and deleted my "wage gap" explanation; probably for the best.  My previous degree is in that stuff and it's like a thing but I've probably said my piece. 

[ajnelson]

I've seen this happen several times. Both men and women.

A big trip/family reunion, etc planned for quite some time. Tickets, hotel already booked. Time off had been arranged with prior position. For what ever reason, you are looking into a new job. Do you tell them at your interview that you'll be needing this extended vacation time? No. No one would think twice about disclosing this in an interview. Once offered the position, yes, but most people would not say anything during the interview.

[ventana]

And there it is...the inner snowflake against the light of truth emerges...You say "men that I've worked with that have done the same thing..."  Umm, how many of those men got pregnant?  How many took leave when their wife or GF got pregnant?   It's simply a very selfish act to commit to a job when other colleagues MUST count on you to pull your weight, and then leave them holding the bag knowing full well you were going to be out an extended time *before you were hired*.  Selfish, plain and simple.  And if you don't believe they see it or you that way, then you're not paying attention.  They certainly do.

 

 

 

Wow - the only thing you are missing is the fact that MEN CAN NOT GET PREGNANT! There is not an easy comparison and the previous posters comparison to the reserves is also just hog wash. Thank goodness the people (men and women) are willing to put their very lives on the line for us. And for someone having to work a little harder if their co worker is out - see previous my previous comments on your employer not be able to FORCE you to do anything.

 

I am honestly disheartened to hear such comments from other professionals. Life is not about "how hard you work" or "how many hours you put in" but instead life is about doing the best job we can while living life outside of work. Again if we stopped procreating the human races ceases to exist in one generation. And since females are the child bearers it is 100% illogical to discriminate against them (and btw that is what this is called)

 

 

 

 

 

And this is where I leave the conversation. The name calling is completely inappropriate. Life happens. Both with men and women. And assume just because I have/had/could have a child that I can't pull my weight is ridiculous. And this is why women will always have to fight for equal rights in the work place.

PLEASE DON'T leave the conversation. We need people like yourself to stay engagaed to provide view points and try to enlighten others that family is exceptionally important, the job/career is not king and we should all work together towards getting jobs done. Your opinion and experiences are highly valuable and worth far more then some 20 or 30 something MALE PA who has no kids and is just wanting to bash the amount of energy and commitment it takes to raise a family.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall the ONLY arguement I keep hearing is that by FEMALES taking leave (this country is behind the times in Paternity leave - look at policies in Europe to understand) is that the people still at work have to work harder. This is not the fault of the female, it is 100% the fault of the employer. The employer can hire locums or ancillary staff at the drop of a hat to help cover the work load - but they choose not to because to many employees in the past have been bullied into doing far more work then they should. See my previous post on this. The employer will not hire additional tilll the remaining workers say they can not handle it any more - so in reality this is a problem of the remaining workers not advocating for themselves enough. And the easy scrape goat is that lady who took maternity leave. Just like throwing the baby out with the bath water..... short sighted and wrong.....

[overthehorizen]

I emphasize Ventanna's remarks tp ajnelson.. Do not leave the conversation. There must faction against faction for meaningful discourse. I don't ever want people who have views opposite my own to leave the forum. It wouldn't be a forum if they did. 

[ajnelson]

Thanks guys. I didn't leave. I was just very offended by the tone and name calling in that post.

I'm by no means young. I have worked very hard since I was 17 (and continue to do so). I see many women working very hard, always feeling the need that we have to prove ourselves or be better than the men so we get taken seriously.

Having a child shouldn't be looked down upon. And no, men in the US don't typically take time off, but we are the only country that doesn't encourage it. And the men that don't help out with sick kids or sports or other child commitments, just means the mothers have to do more. I get its frustrating always covering for 'that co-worker'. But, there are men that take off for hunting or fishing or some sports event every year. So, yeah. We cover for you guys as well...

[ventana]

^^^^. Bravo!!!!

[Katera]

I've seen this happen several times. Both men and women.

A big trip/family reunion, etc planned for quite some time. Tickets, hotel already booked. Time off had been arranged with prior position. For what ever reason, you are looking into a new job. Do you tell them at your interview that you'll be needing this extended vacation time? No. No one would think twice about disclosing this in an interview. Once offered the position, yes, but most people would not say anything during the interview.

 

 

 

Vacations vs pregnancy?  Umm...ok.

 

And yes, I absolutely would and in fact have told a new employer about an upcoming pre-planned vacation before I started.  Why?  It's courteous and in fact most places do not allow PTO for the first 6 months of employment.  Expecting that they would break that rule for me AFTER I start is presumptuous and selfish.  Hence, I would absolutely clear it with them before I sign.  That in no way compares to pregnancy which does not fall under an employers PTO policy, yet the time spent away requires your new employer to replace you for a minimum of 6 weeks.  Those are the facts, like them or not.        The original poster asked this question...should I tell them.  I believe she should.

[ajnelson]

Vacations vs pregnancy? Umm...ok.

 

And yes, I absolutely would and in fact have told a new employer about an upcoming pre-planned vacation before I started. Why? It's courteous and in fact most places do not allow PTO for the first 6 months of employment. Expecting that they would break that rule for me AFTER I start is presumptuous and selfish. Hence, I would absolutely clear it with them before I sign. That in no way compares to pregnancy which does not fall under an employers PTO policy, yet the time spent away requires your new employer to replace you for a minimum of 6 weeks. Those are the facts, like them or not. The original poster asked this question...should I tell them. I believe she should.

I never said not disclose at all. I said it wouldn't be thought of being disclosed during an interview. And I've never had an employer say I couldn't take PTO during the first six months (or any arbitrary period of time). But, before I accepted the position I would absolutely be up front about it.

Ask any woman who's had a baby. They will tell you maternity leave is not a vacation. Yet, most women ARE using PTO for their maternity leave. We are using our 'vacation time' to recover from having that baby. And, whether I'm out on 'maternity leave', a CME trip, an actual vacation or sitting on my tush at home on a PTO day, a co-worker is going to have to cover. It may only be a day, a week, a couple weeks. It shouldn't matter to you or anyone how I'm using my PTO days.

You don't like women being off for maternity leave, then encourage your employer to cover paternity leave (and use it). You don't like women being out with sick kids all the time, maybe you should help your significant others care for your sick children and the women wouldn't always be the ones having to take off.

[ajnelson]

12 week hunting trips without using vacation time, where work is bound by law to hold your position? That sounds fantastic!

Most places you DO use your PTO or vacation time. Some women take time without pay. The only thing you are guaranteed is to not lose your position.

[ajnelson]

Are you saying you are forced to use your PTO at most places? I don't think that's the case. The FMLA doesn't apply to small businesses, so the only case where you aren't guaranteed 12 weeks of unpaid leave is if your leave is going to really screw over the business, but even then, your state probably has protections in place. I understand wanting to use PTO in addition to the unpaid time off, but no need to portray it like you have no choice.

No one forces you to use your PTO, you are correct. But the assumption others are making is that you are having free time off that others are covering. That's not fully the case. Most people do use their PTO as they want to be paid. So they are forgoing their other time off (vacations) for their maternity leave. So, whether I use my time off for maternity leave, an actual vacation or what ever I want, it shouldn't matter. That time still needs covering while we are gone.

I'm not condoning being sneaky or hiding the fact. I just don't think the interview is the place for it. We don't bring up upcoming vacations or weddings. Pregnancy really shouldn't be different

[rev ronin]

Just know that your decision could affect future women trying to get hired at this place

I doubt that.  Appearing as a reproductive age female will figure into the hiring manager's decision regardless: if you look like you could have babies, they will weigh in the fact that you might be having babies.  Some employers truly do not care.  Others do, regardless of whether or not it constitutes illegal sex-based discrimination.

 

It would be interesting to study the relative difficulties, or lack thereof, that new PAs have in obtaining employment at favorable terms.  My supposition would be that, even controlling for prior HCE and other factors, female PAs under age ~35 will have the most difficulty finding jobs due to reproductive status-based discrimination, and those who DO get jobs will get paid relatively less than their male colleagues, again controlling for all other identifiable variables.