Corpsman2PA Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was also told that PA's in the military make about 30K as it's based on your title (i.e. officer) and not position. Is this accurate? Also does anyone know what it's like living on the free housing? You'd easily make over $40k. Depending on what bonuses you have, incentive pay, etc. Base housing as an officer isn't too horrible, but why not just get the BAH and rent a little place out in town. Thats my philosophy anyway. Of course I was stationed at Camp Lejeune where base housing is pretty Korean war era, lol. I agree with what cmr said, I don't think loan repayment is a bad reason to join. Thats why its there. Its an incentive for medical providers. Just like the GI Bill is an incentive. Trust me, you'll adapt to the mindset and lifestyle of the military. Especially as an officer, you'll be above a lot of the enlisted games. I joined as a Navy Corpsman thinking I'd be out in the ocean somewhere and spent 6 years running on the ground with the Marines. Loved every second of it...well almost every second ;) I start PA school this year and have entertained the thought of joining back up afterwards...but like they say, "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice? Shame on me" :) jk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was also told that PA's in the military make about 30K as it's based on your title (i.e. officer) and not position. Is this accurate? Also does anyone know what it's like living on the free housing? You'd easily make over $40k. Depending on what bonuses you have, incentive pay, etc. Base housing as an officer isn't too horrible, but why not just get the BAH and rent a little place out in town. Thats my philosophy anyway. Of course I was stationed at Camp Lejeune where base housing is pretty Korean war era, lol. I agree with what cmr said, I don't think loan repayment is a bad reason to join. Thats why its there. Its an incentive for medical providers. Just like the GI Bill is an incentive. Trust me, you'll adapt to the mindset and lifestyle of the military. Especially as an officer, you'll be above a lot of the enlisted games. I joined as a Navy Corpsman thinking I'd be out in the ocean somewhere and spent 6 years running on the ground with the Marines. Loved every second of it...well almost every second ;) I start PA school this year and have entertained the thought of joining back up afterwards...but like they say, "fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice? Shame on me" :) jk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Whoever told you you'd make 30K is blowing smoke- that's lower enlisted pay. If you have a Master's and you join the Navy, you'll come in as an O-2, (just google military pay chart and look up O-2 pay either with or without dependants) plus whatever bonus the Navy gives for PA's. Plus BAH. Plus sea time (if you're on a ship). Plus, plus, plus... Or, get a civilian job and just put some money aside to pay off your loans. People do that every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Whoever told you you'd make 30K is blowing smoke- that's lower enlisted pay. If you have a Master's and you join the Navy, you'll come in as an O-2, (just google military pay chart and look up O-2 pay either with or without dependants) plus whatever bonus the Navy gives for PA's. Plus BAH. Plus sea time (if you're on a ship). Plus, plus, plus... Or, get a civilian job and just put some money aside to pay off your loans. People do that every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Especially as an officer, you'll be above a lot of the enlisted games.. Yeah... but there ARE still the officer "games" to contend with.... Whoever told you you'd make 30K is blowing smoke- that's lower enlisted pay. Naaahh... Wasn't me who told her this but it IS accurate when you break total compensation down as a hourly wage... as is prudent. Especially in this case considering the stated motive for joining. Even if she was taking $80k home after taxes ... working/being on duty for typically 4000 hours/yr doesn't make that a "true" $80k/yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Especially as an officer, you'll be above a lot of the enlisted games.. Yeah... but there ARE still the officer "games" to contend with.... Whoever told you you'd make 30K is blowing smoke- that's lower enlisted pay. Naaahh... Wasn't me who told her this but it IS accurate when you break total compensation down as a hourly wage... as is prudent. Especially in this case considering the stated motive for joining. Even if she was taking $80k home after taxes ... working/being on duty for typically 4000 hours/yr doesn't make that a "true" $80k/yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 He not she. I was given the 30K amount from a recruiter over the phone. I looked up O2 and saw 40K, not sure if I was reading the chart correctly or not. As mentioned I have no kids, so 1 dependent (just me). Well I still have some time to think. I am going to see the recruiter hopefully next week as long as I have no exams coming up. I will definitely try to live as frugally as possible. I'm estimating 40K a year, hopefully it'll come out lower. I am definitely doing roommates and will likely live in NJ as well to save money. I already live very frugally as I have since birth by no choice, and as mentioned I could care less for the nicer things in life. However what I don't want is to work the rest of my life essentially paying interest on over 300K of loans, especially when I have kids. The major advantage financially to doing HRSA over the military is I could work my HRSA job 40 hours a week and another 15 or so hours at a per diem job. I intend to keep roommates, live frugally etc for as long as I can bear and plug away at the loans. I think my situation is pretty unique in that the amount I'll owe is much, much greater than most people. So I don't think some of you can really relate. I know some of you can though and have, and that I appreciate tremendously. Trust me if I owed only 150K or less in loans I would not be sweating it. But I will end up owing over twice that. This did not come from poor spending or anything. I have always lived frugally, I have worked full time through school, I did half my school at community college, and I went to a reasonably priced public university. However supporting myself and tuition without any scholarships (took 2 years off after high school) and no parental help has taken a heavy toll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 He not she. I was given the 30K amount from a recruiter over the phone. I looked up O2 and saw 40K, not sure if I was reading the chart correctly or not. As mentioned I have no kids, so 1 dependent (just me). Well I still have some time to think. I am going to see the recruiter hopefully next week as long as I have no exams coming up. I will definitely try to live as frugally as possible. I'm estimating 40K a year, hopefully it'll come out lower. I am definitely doing roommates and will likely live in NJ as well to save money. I already live very frugally as I have since birth by no choice, and as mentioned I could care less for the nicer things in life. However what I don't want is to work the rest of my life essentially paying interest on over 300K of loans, especially when I have kids. The major advantage financially to doing HRSA over the military is I could work my HRSA job 40 hours a week and another 15 or so hours at a per diem job. I intend to keep roommates, live frugally etc for as long as I can bear and plug away at the loans. I think my situation is pretty unique in that the amount I'll owe is much, much greater than most people. So I don't think some of you can really relate. I know some of you can though and have, and that I appreciate tremendously. Trust me if I owed only 150K or less in loans I would not be sweating it. But I will end up owing over twice that. This did not come from poor spending or anything. I have always lived frugally, I have worked full time through school, I did half my school at community college, and I went to a reasonably priced public university. However supporting myself and tuition without any scholarships (took 2 years off after high school) and no parental help has taken a heavy toll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 While I NEVER suggest that anyone read anything on SDN... maybe YOU should go to the Military Medicine section there and read quite a bit of it. Then filter it for about 30%-40% accuracy. Now these a PHYSICIANS... so as a PA... Also... I don't know you... but after re-reading this thread... I was reminded of the whole "living beyond one's means" situation that played a HUGE part in our current economic crisis. You know... the whole, 'I wanna big house, but can't afford it, but since I want it I will sign the paperwork on it anyway." Parallel to that is, 'I want to get a degree in [whatever], I can't afford the cost of said degree but I'm gonna do it anyway.' Cause to be honest... personally... I want a Law degree and a 90ft boat... but since I can't afford either right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 While I NEVER suggest that anyone read anything on SDN... maybe YOU should go to the Military Medicine section there and read quite a bit of it. Then filter it for about 30%-40% accuracy. Now these a PHYSICIANS... so as a PA... Also... I don't know you... but after re-reading this thread... I was reminded of the whole "living beyond one's means" situation that played a HUGE part in our current economic crisis. You know... the whole, 'I wanna big house, but can't afford it, but since I want it I will sign the paperwork on it anyway." Parallel to that is, 'I want to get a degree in [whatever], I can't afford the cost of said degree but I'm gonna do it anyway.' Cause to be honest... personally... I want a Law degree and a 90ft boat... but since I can't afford either right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrthoSurgeryPA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Priceless reponse Contrarian...*thumbs up*.:;DD: @ winter: read my post about AB and IP. it's all there with references. Google "military pay chart 2012". Google "BAH rates military". Then stay out of the Navy if you are going to want all the benies without the sacrifice and arduous duty you WILL endure through as a new MSC accession. This goes beyond clinical issues... I have enough junior PAs I talk down off the ledge as it is right now because they just wanted to get loans paid off and thought they could avoid deployments by playing the "I'm too new" card. I agree that reading SDN and getting a sense of the "climate" would benefit you as well. Just be careful not to step in the bullsh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrthoSurgeryPA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Priceless reponse Contrarian...*thumbs up*.:;DD: @ winter: read my post about AB and IP. it's all there with references. Google "military pay chart 2012". Google "BAH rates military". Then stay out of the Navy if you are going to want all the benies without the sacrifice and arduous duty you WILL endure through as a new MSC accession. This goes beyond clinical issues... I have enough junior PAs I talk down off the ledge as it is right now because they just wanted to get loans paid off and thought they could avoid deployments by playing the "I'm too new" card. I agree that reading SDN and getting a sense of the "climate" would benefit you as well. Just be careful not to step in the bullsh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 @ Contrarian: I did everything possible to minimize my costs of education. On top of working full time, I've capitalized on tuition reimbursement through my work. I did 2 years at community college. I've always had roommates at an affordable place. Nothing nice and nothing fancy in any part of my life. Went to a relatively cheap university. It's not like I have kids and lived lavishly and decided to go to PA school for fun. I am doing it not just for myself but also unselfish reasons. Money has never at any point been a motivator for me. I have the GPA and experience to have gone MD or MBA or any number of more lucrative paths. That's not what it's been about for me. But you also have to understand that today, going to college is VERY different from how it was in your time (no offense meant whatsoever). You may want to research parent plus loans for starters, which is a huge way the financial aid institutions have screwed over younger students strictly for profits. Tuition for PA school has also taken a huge rise since you graduated. Also, bachelor's in PA, as I understood you went, is not a viable option for many of us today (albeit it is for some). The cost of undergrad has also rose steeply since you were in school. I do not believe in giving up my passion or my dream simply because of debt. However, I also have to take a hard look at reality now that it is all materializing (the debt and the dream). Also I have made it clear that I am willing to endure the hardships and risks of the navy. I do not expect them to hand me a check and wave me on to a sweet life. I'd write more but gotta get back to studying... I'll check out SDN later this week even though I hate that website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 @ Contrarian: I did everything possible to minimize my costs of education. On top of working full time, I've capitalized on tuition reimbursement through my work. I did 2 years at community college. I've always had roommates at an affordable place. Nothing nice and nothing fancy in any part of my life. Went to a relatively cheap university. It's not like I have kids and lived lavishly and decided to go to PA school for fun. I am doing it not just for myself but also unselfish reasons. Money has never at any point been a motivator for me. I have the GPA and experience to have gone MD or MBA or any number of more lucrative paths. That's not what it's been about for me. But you also have to understand that today, going to college is VERY different from how it was in your time (no offense meant whatsoever). You may want to research parent plus loans for starters, which is a huge way the financial aid institutions have screwed over younger students strictly for profits. Tuition for PA school has also taken a huge rise since you graduated. Also, bachelor's in PA, as I understood you went, is not a viable option for many of us today (albeit it is for some). The cost of undergrad has also rose steeply since you were in school. I do not believe in giving up my passion or my dream simply because of debt. However, I also have to take a hard look at reality now that it is all materializing (the debt and the dream). Also I have made it clear that I am willing to endure the hardships and risks of the navy. I do not expect them to hand me a check and wave me on to a sweet life. I'd write more but gotta get back to studying... I'll check out SDN later this week even though I hate that website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson646 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Check out http://www.mrmoneymustache.com, you can live on less than 30k a year (depending where you live). Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson646 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Check out http://www.mrmoneymustache.com, you can live on less than 30k a year (depending where you live). Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Winter, one of the Army medics I used to work with is now an AD Navy PA. She graduated within the last few years and is already currently deployed. Would you like me to ask her any specifics for you? She's very helpful and straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Winter, one of the Army medics I used to work with is now an AD Navy PA. She graduated within the last few years and is already currently deployed. Would you like me to ask her any specifics for you? She's very helpful and straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You remember the scene from the movie Caddyshack, when Danny the caddy is buttering up Judge Smails to land a country club-sponsored scholarship? "You know, I planned to go to law school after I graduated," Danny moped, "but it looks like my folks won't have enough money to put me through college." The uptight Smails shot back, "Well, the world needs ditchdiggers, too!" Callous? Sure. But the world does need ditchdiggers. It also needs more people to realize that not everyone is cut out for and\or can afford college. Just about all teachers will tell you this. They're in the academic trenches with these kids, and they can spot which ones will thrive in college, and which ones will be better off pursuing skilled labor that's more blue-collar. Government bureaucrats aren't that astute. Take our Bureaucrat-in-Chief, President Obama. He's been drilling into the public's heads, with pneumatic regularity, that we need more kids with college degrees. And he's not 100 percent wrong - in the past few decades the labor force has required more education from its workers. But according to the online public policy journal Remapping Debate, "a number of economists and other policy thinkers worry, by placing such an emphasis on the virtues of higher education, our policy elite is foreclosing discussion of alternative or complementary strategies that could deliver gains to many Americans - those with and without college degrees alike." MIT economics professor David Autor did a great study on this. What he found is that there are effective "formal and informal networks" to guide young students toward the highest-salaried careers, but there's nothing comparable for the kinds of jobs that require some postsecondary training but not outright college degrees. Good examples he gave involved medical paraprofessionals, such as X-ray technicians, EMTs and phlebotomists. Public policy needs to focus on building more lower-tier career pathways, Autor said. From Remapping Debate: "While his students coming out of MIT might have ‘12 employers beating down the door to offer them jobs in finance,' a high-school student who does not plan to attend college faces an information shortfall about career possibilities. The implicit message, said Autor, is, ‘Oh, you're not going to college? Well, see you later.'" That's more of where the government's focus needs to be when it comes to job creation. It's going to take a lot of work to dig America out of its economic hole. And the world needs ditchdiggers, too. My point wasn't about how "frugally" you lived... it was simply about whether or not you could afford it regardless of how frugally you lived. Folks who eat generic, knock-off "Top Ramen" three meals a day and wear the same clothes most days of the week to live "fugally"... still shouldn't go out and sign a mortgage on a $300,000 home that they can't afford... just because they dream of owning one, want it or somehow feel "entitled" to it. I dream of owning a Gulfstream 650 ... but "something" stops me from signing the paperwork to get one. Hazard a guess as to what that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You remember the scene from the movie Caddyshack, when Danny the caddy is buttering up Judge Smails to land a country club-sponsored scholarship? "You know, I planned to go to law school after I graduated," Danny moped, "but it looks like my folks won't have enough money to put me through college." The uptight Smails shot back, "Well, the world needs ditchdiggers, too!" Callous? Sure. But the world does need ditchdiggers. It also needs more people to realize that not everyone is cut out for and\or can afford college. Just about all teachers will tell you this. They're in the academic trenches with these kids, and they can spot which ones will thrive in college, and which ones will be better off pursuing skilled labor that's more blue-collar. Government bureaucrats aren't that astute. Take our Bureaucrat-in-Chief, President Obama. He's been drilling into the public's heads, with pneumatic regularity, that we need more kids with college degrees. And he's not 100 percent wrong - in the past few decades the labor force has required more education from its workers. But according to the online public policy journal Remapping Debate, "a number of economists and other policy thinkers worry, by placing such an emphasis on the virtues of higher education, our policy elite is foreclosing discussion of alternative or complementary strategies that could deliver gains to many Americans - those with and without college degrees alike." MIT economics professor David Autor did a great study on this. What he found is that there are effective "formal and informal networks" to guide young students toward the highest-salaried careers, but there's nothing comparable for the kinds of jobs that require some postsecondary training but not outright college degrees. Good examples he gave involved medical paraprofessionals, such as X-ray technicians, EMTs and phlebotomists. Public policy needs to focus on building more lower-tier career pathways, Autor said. From Remapping Debate: "While his students coming out of MIT might have ‘12 employers beating down the door to offer them jobs in finance,' a high-school student who does not plan to attend college faces an information shortfall about career possibilities. The implicit message, said Autor, is, ‘Oh, you're not going to college? Well, see you later.'" That's more of where the government's focus needs to be when it comes to job creation. It's going to take a lot of work to dig America out of its economic hole. And the world needs ditchdiggers, too. My point wasn't about how "frugally" you lived... it was simply about whether or not you could afford it regardless of how frugally you lived. Folks who eat generic, knock-off "Top Ramen" three meals a day and wear the same clothes most days of the week to live "fugally"... still shouldn't go out and sign a mortgage on a $300,000 home that they can't afford... just because they dream of owning one, want it or somehow feel "entitled" to it. I dream of owning a Gulfstream 650 ... but "something" stops me from signing the paperwork to get one. Hazard a guess as to what that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well if you do some simple math you'll find out that long term it is still financially a smart move. Just to keep it simple... 40K a year from age 20 to 65 = 1,800,000 90K a year from age 20 to 65 = 4,050,000 - 350,000 (debt) = 3,700,000 This is assuming no tuition reimbursement, navy, etc. Anyways this is basically an exercise in futility. I've already accumulated all my undergrad debt and got into PA school. To quit now would be asinine. I started this thread seeking help on what to do to pay off my loans. If you have any ideas or advice on that I would love to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well if you do some simple math you'll find out that long term it is still financially a smart move. Just to keep it simple... 40K a year from age 20 to 65 = 1,800,000 90K a year from age 20 to 65 = 4,050,000 - 350,000 (debt) = 3,700,000 This is assuming no tuition reimbursement, navy, etc. Anyways this is basically an exercise in futility. I've already accumulated all my undergrad debt and got into PA school. To quit now would be asinine. I started this thread seeking help on what to do to pay off my loans. If you have any ideas or advice on that I would love to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah... but there ARE still the officer "games" to contend with.... Yeah but I'm not talking about golf, badminton, or croquet Contrarian ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Yeah... but there ARE still the officer "games" to contend with.... Yeah but I'm not talking about golf, badminton, or croquet Contrarian ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2012 Look into going to the bush in AK. Think they have loan repayment that can total 85k. I just got a jon post for 117k with 85k loan repayment Also look at USPHS and especially coast guard too as they use PA's a fair amount Honestly look at BOP as well. Loan repayment for remote locations might just be the way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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