winterallsummer Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hello, I was wondering what your experience and opinions are on joining the military to repay loans. I am really not a military type person (though I have a lot of respect for them) but I don't think I will be able to pay my loans off any other way. I recently learned that after graduating I will owe over 300K. I do not see any possible way to pay this back. A 10 year plan would have me paying back 45K a year for a decade, and I was hoping to have a family in the future. Opinions, experiences and thoughts please? Also, before I get flamed for "joining for the wrong reasons", I have obviously put thought into the danger and other rewards of joining the Navy. I do obviously see the benefit of joining the Navy outside of loan repayment, however financial incentive is admittedly my main motivator. I know some people will disagree with me on this, and you are entitled to that opinion. Also can you please share your thoughts on how this would compare to just working 50 hour weeks and doing NHSC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwallac4 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 From someone in the military. Please do not join if you are doing it solely to repay your loans. I have seen people do this and become isolated from their peers, because all they do is complain about substandard living conditions during deployments and field training. If however you are doing it for patriotic reasons first and loan repayments are just a bonus I welcome you with open arms. Remember you will likely end up AT WAR stabilizing Soldiers and Marines whom you spent months getting to know. It is not going to be like a civilian ER, where the pts. are people you do not know. Many of the pts. you will know the name of their siblings and kids. This is a labor of love. Not a loan repayment factory. I have heard there are other government service organizations that offer loan repayment. Like working for health service corps, etc. Maybe check into that. Just trying to give you some frank advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 "stay away"...!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entpac Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I am a retired military PA. I strongly agree with jwallac4. If you are not joining the military because it is your calling to be a military P.A., I would not even consider going in the service. Military service can be quite unforgiving. During times of conflict, there is a thing called "stop loss." Stop loss means the military can retain you (for the good of the service) past your commitment. You need to seriously consider the effect of "stop loss" before you raise your hand to take the oath of office. Adding to the stress of being a "new P.A.," you'll need to learn to navigate the military rules and regulations. In my opinion, it is not worth taking a chance unless you are going in with the primary mission of service to your country and your fellow service members. You may have more autonomy than you ever dreamed of having as a new graduate. You will most likely find yourself in remote locations where you are the senior medical person. There may be many months that go by without having a weekend or holiday off. If you are deployed to a foreign country and you have a child who becomes critically ill, you may not be able to get back to the states. Not every commander you have will be a medical commander. Errors in judgment can land you in Leavenworth (prison) for insubordination. Your fellow service men and women are counting on you to be focused every day of your life. Many of those days will be spent in the field with sleep deprivation knocking at your door. My time serving as a PA was extremely rewarding. If you do elect to serve in the military, you will meet a lot of motivated and dedicated people and experience camaraderie at a level I have not found in civilian practice. It is difficult to match the feeling you get from providing selfless service to soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. I have also known PAs who have served in the Health Service Corps. They have not had to endure long deployments but have given their time and service to benefit the underserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entpac Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I am a retired military PA. I strongly agree with jwallac4. If you are not joining the military because it is your calling to be a military P.A., I would not even consider going in the service. Military service can be quite unforgiving. During times of conflict, there is a thing called "stop loss." Stop loss means the military can retain you (for the good of the service) past your commitment. You need to seriously consider the effect of "stop loss" before you raise your hand to take the oath of office. Adding to the stress of being a "new P.A.," you'll need to learn to navigate the military rules and regulations. In my opinion, it is not worth taking a chance unless you are going in with the primary mission of service to your country and your fellow service members. You may have more autonomy than you ever dreamed of having as a new graduate. You will most likely find yourself in remote locations where you are the senior medical person. There may be many months that go by without having a weekend or holiday off. If you are deployed to a foreign country and you have a child who becomes critically ill, you may not be able to get back to the states. Not every commander you have will be a medical commander. Errors in judgment can land you in Leavenworth (prison) for insubordination. Your fellow service men and women are counting on you to be focused every day of your life. Many of those days will be spent in the field with sleep deprivation knocking at your door. My time serving as a PA was extremely rewarding. If you do elect to serve in the military, you will meet a lot of motivated and dedicated people and experience camaraderie at a level I have not found in civilian practice. It is difficult to match the feeling you get from providing selfless service to soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen. I have also known PAs who have served in the Health Service Corps. They have not had to endure long deployments but have given their time and service to benefit the underserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 300 K? what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 300 K? what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I strongly second everything already said. The military isn't a job, it's a lifestyle. Signing a contract will affect every major choice you make thereafter. Want to go on vacation? Have to get leave approved. Want to live in a certain locale? Better have orders. Simply sick of your job? You can't just quit. Your supervisor an ignorant douche? Too bad, he/she outranks you. Want to call in sick to get some extra sleep? Lol, no. There are lots of benefits to joining the military, but make damn sure you go in with eyes wide open. If not, it's likely to be a bad situation for everyone involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I strongly second everything already said. The military isn't a job, it's a lifestyle. Signing a contract will affect every major choice you make thereafter. Want to go on vacation? Have to get leave approved. Want to live in a certain locale? Better have orders. Simply sick of your job? You can't just quit. Your supervisor an ignorant douche? Too bad, he/she outranks you. Want to call in sick to get some extra sleep? Lol, no. There are lots of benefits to joining the military, but make damn sure you go in with eyes wide open. If not, it's likely to be a bad situation for everyone involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you all for the genuine advice. I would not join just for the loan repayment but that is the major factor. Obviously I will have to be prepared to go to war. I am prepared for the challenges, harsh living conditions, and such. I haven't had a real vacation or a holiday off since I was 19 years old. I have heard from many people it was a great experience and I think I would learn a lot as well. However I need to consider it long and hard before I do anything. I am also weighing the option against HRSA, working for 5 years which is 140K. During that time I also could work another job and live humbly. So money-wise that may actually be a better option. However I am concerned that 1) I won't get a HRSA job or HRSA approved, or 2) if I do, I'll have to do remote, and having grown up in BFE I really am quite opposed to that. Yes I do realize that is a huge possibility in the navy as well and I'm taking it into consideration. Just Steve - I thought it was 220K based on some calculations. But today I got my parent plus loans (loans they force you to take out if you're under 24 that have 8% APR). They amount 85K. After I'm a PA, it'll mature to 110K. Then I have 90K tuition at Pace, and another 80K or more to live in NJ (close to NY) for 2 years. That's 280. After maturation for just a year or two it's 300K. I am starting to get extremely discouraged. I am wondering if I even made the right choice. I have a strong passion for PA but just the thought of it is very overwhelming. I'm very stressed right now and trying to come up with some kind of game plan :(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you all for the genuine advice. I would not join just for the loan repayment but that is the major factor. Obviously I will have to be prepared to go to war. I am prepared for the challenges, harsh living conditions, and such. I haven't had a real vacation or a holiday off since I was 19 years old. I have heard from many people it was a great experience and I think I would learn a lot as well. However I need to consider it long and hard before I do anything. I am also weighing the option against HRSA, working for 5 years which is 140K. During that time I also could work another job and live humbly. So money-wise that may actually be a better option. However I am concerned that 1) I won't get a HRSA job or HRSA approved, or 2) if I do, I'll have to do remote, and having grown up in BFE I really am quite opposed to that. Yes I do realize that is a huge possibility in the navy as well and I'm taking it into consideration. Just Steve - I thought it was 220K based on some calculations. But today I got my parent plus loans (loans they force you to take out if you're under 24 that have 8% APR). They amount 85K. After I'm a PA, it'll mature to 110K. Then I have 90K tuition at Pace, and another 80K or more to live in NJ (close to NY) for 2 years. That's 280. After maturation for just a year or two it's 300K. I am starting to get extremely discouraged. I am wondering if I even made the right choice. I have a strong passion for PA but just the thought of it is very overwhelming. I'm very stressed right now and trying to come up with some kind of game plan :(. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Have you thought about the NHSC or the Commissioned Corps of the USPHS? I have to agree that the military is a mind set, a way of life. There is no part of your life that it doesn't reach into and you are not only subject to the laws most of us are but also the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which reaches into many parts of your life. Can you cope with leaving your child for 6-12 mos at a time? Having a solid family care plan is a must. Sometimes military life can be very lonely, can you cope with that? If you don't have the warrior mindset or want to have it then you need to continue looking at other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Have you thought about the NHSC or the Commissioned Corps of the USPHS? I have to agree that the military is a mind set, a way of life. There is no part of your life that it doesn't reach into and you are not only subject to the laws most of us are but also the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which reaches into many parts of your life. Can you cope with leaving your child for 6-12 mos at a time? Having a solid family care plan is a must. Sometimes military life can be very lonely, can you cope with that? If you don't have the warrior mindset or want to have it then you need to continue looking at other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Political views aside, this may be of interest to you. Its Obama's student loan consolidation/forgiveness program. Not sure about any of the details, but its worth researching. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/10/obama-sets-new-rules-for-student-loans/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Political views aside, this may be of interest to you. Its Obama's student loan consolidation/forgiveness program. Not sure about any of the details, but its worth researching. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/10/obama-sets-new-rules-for-student-loans/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks all for the continued support. I'll be 26 when I graduate PA school and have no kids, so going overseas is not a "huge" concern for me. The other option I am seriously considering is NHSC. I would ideally want to do the 5 years which pays back 140K. I will continue to live on 30K a year and want to work the NHSC job plus another part time job, and put all my extra money towards my loans. I have no problem paying my dues and in fact have done so my whole life (never worked less than 20 hours age 15-17, never worked less than full time since 18). I will look into the USPHS. I emailed the USPHS today and will call them next week if I don't hear back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks all for the continued support. I'll be 26 when I graduate PA school and have no kids, so going overseas is not a "huge" concern for me. The other option I am seriously considering is NHSC. I would ideally want to do the 5 years which pays back 140K. I will continue to live on 30K a year and want to work the NHSC job plus another part time job, and put all my extra money towards my loans. I have no problem paying my dues and in fact have done so my whole life (never worked less than 20 hours age 15-17, never worked less than full time since 18). I will look into the USPHS. I emailed the USPHS today and will call them next week if I don't hear back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I am a civilian now, but I have 11 years active duty including deployments with the Army. I don't think loan repayments are such a bad reason to join the military. It's no worse than the reason a lot of my soldier's gave ("I wanna blow **** up"), or why lots of people do ROTC (free college). Yeah, it's a HUGE change in lifestyle than you're used to, especially if you don't have family or friends in the military, as I did not. But, you'll get some decent experience, a fair paycheck and you'll meet a lot of people who you never would have met. Who knows, maybe you'll end up loving it. If you don't, than you get out after completing your commitment and you'll have some good bullets on your resume. Also, everyone throws around the stop loss thing, but it's really pretty rare for PA's. I wouldn't let that scare you. The deployment thing is for real though. Don't let anyone tell you that deployments don't suck, because they really do. Bad. I say, go for it. You may like it, you may hate it. Just like any job. The difference is, of course that you can't quit if you hate it. Get your head around that and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I am a civilian now, but I have 11 years active duty including deployments with the Army. I don't think loan repayments are such a bad reason to join the military. It's no worse than the reason a lot of my soldier's gave ("I wanna blow **** up"), or why lots of people do ROTC (free college). Yeah, it's a HUGE change in lifestyle than you're used to, especially if you don't have family or friends in the military, as I did not. But, you'll get some decent experience, a fair paycheck and you'll meet a lot of people who you never would have met. Who knows, maybe you'll end up loving it. If you don't, than you get out after completing your commitment and you'll have some good bullets on your resume. Also, everyone throws around the stop loss thing, but it's really pretty rare for PA's. I wouldn't let that scare you. The deployment thing is for real though. Don't let anyone tell you that deployments don't suck, because they really do. Bad. I say, go for it. You may like it, you may hate it. Just like any job. The difference is, of course that you can't quit if you hate it. Get your head around that and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was also told that PA's in the military make about 30K as it's based on your title (i.e. officer) and not position. Is this accurate? Also does anyone know what it's like living on the free housing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was also told that PA's in the military make about 30K as it's based on your title (i.e. officer) and not position. Is this accurate? Also does anyone know what it's like living on the free housing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 "stay away"...!!!! Two snaps and a thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 "stay away"...!!!! Two snaps and a thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Then I have 90K tuition at Pace, and another 80K or more to live in NJ (close to NY) for 2 years. That's 280.. Have you looked at ways of scaling back your cost of living expenses? I spent 2 years on Long Island for PA school (similar cost of living to NJ) and didn't spend anything close to 80k. If you are willing to find a few roommates (classmates are a good source) and go on the ramen noodle/bologna route for a couple of years you can come out owing a lot less than 80k. It may seem painful if you are dropping down from a "better" standard of living, but in the long-term it is well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Then I have 90K tuition at Pace, and another 80K or more to live in NJ (close to NY) for 2 years. That's 280.. Have you looked at ways of scaling back your cost of living expenses? I spent 2 years on Long Island for PA school (similar cost of living to NJ) and didn't spend anything close to 80k. If you are willing to find a few roommates (classmates are a good source) and go on the ramen noodle/bologna route for a couple of years you can come out owing a lot less than 80k. It may seem painful if you are dropping down from a "better" standard of living, but in the long-term it is well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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