SoCal_PA Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I am a first year graduate and already nearing the salary ceiling (per the AAPA salary report). I like what I do but I know I am not going to be satisfied with this level of income. Anyone venture out of medicine and come out successful? Looking for some motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 28, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2016 you are close to 150-200k 1 yr out of school? that is the typical salary ceiling for someone in a specialty who works a lot many years out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Good...lord. I'd hate to know what you have to do for the number of hours you have to work to make that, and it isn't even enough to match the standard of living in the majority of the rest of the country (election red states as a reference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Why can't you get wealthy on $150k a year? No, probably not gonna buy your own private island on that income, but if you are financially smart (pay off debt AGGRESSIVELY, don't finance cars/lifestyle, pay your house off in 15 years, invest 15% in retirement) then you should retire as a MULTI-millionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_PA Posted November 28, 2016 Author Share Posted November 28, 2016 you are close to 150-200k 1 yr out of school? that is the typical salary ceiling for someone in a specialty who works a lot many years out. I am above the 75th percentile overall in my specialty (EM) and work 150 hours/month. But no, I'm not in that range. Just looking for some success stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 28, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2016 sent you a pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwoller57 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 learn to make whatever you earn work for you. real estate and savvy investing are the key to creating wealth. good luck and be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStone Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I am not a PA yet so I honestly have no say commenting but from the research I've done, a lot of people start off around 80k if not more. Even starting off less than that wouldn't push me away from the profession. I'm not going into this to be rich. I'm 26 and I've traded my engineering career to go into medicine to help people. A lot of people make a living on a lot less money. I'd say maybe re-evaluate what made you want to start this profession if you're more concerned about the money. I say that will all due respect. In the mean time, best of luck with furthering your career goals and salary, if that's what you really want. Best, MS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Become an entrepreneur. I have one side business that brings in a decent amount of money per month passively. I'm also creating another one as we speak and have plans to create more in the future. The best part? I don't have to worry about getting sued or CYA. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Wealth is relative. I know of people who make less than 65k per year but I consider "wealthy" and I know others who make 150k-200k that are broke as hell... Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 28, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2016 indeed. it's all about lifestyle. I drive a Honda, make good money, have one child, and am very comfortable. I can buy an airplane ticket on short notice to see a friend, take the wife to dinner and a show, etc without worrying about it. I have friends who make 75-100k/yr more than I do who own multiple timeshares, drive Mercedes, have 4 kids, etc and are always scrambling to pay the mortgage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastStone Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 indeed. it's all about lifestyle. I drive a Honda, make good money, have one child, and am very comfortable. I can buy an airplane ticket on short notice to see a friend, take the wife to dinner and a show, etc without worrying about it. I have friends who make 75-100k/yr more than I do who own multiple timeshares, drive Mercedes, have 4 kids, etc and are always scrambling to pay the mortgage. I'd say it's about being smart financially. If I wanted big money I could've gone the MD route, long term, because short term it's about paying off that med school debt. But PA is a plenty comfortable enough living if people are smart about how they spend and "save" their money. Most careers never hit 6 figures in a year, so to even be close to that, I would feel wealthy enough to drive a decent car, take care of housing and children situation, and having a spouse with an income would only make that easier. The grass seems to always be greener, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewb Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I wonder if perceived wealth has as much to do with who you rub shoulders with going through life as it does your income in absolute terms. Man did I feel flush as an E5, getting deployment pay, wife working about 50-60 hrs a week as an RN with night differential. Of course we had no kid, no car payment, our main outing was going for beer and wings (not that this happened often), and everyone we knew was in the same income range (though most neglected to save like we did). If published salary ranges hold, I'll touch nearly the income we made together when I finish PA school (more if you only consider base pay). And that's without spending all that time in a war zone and seeing my wife just a few waking hours a week for stretches while home. I'll continue to save and make conservative investments for our retirement but I am very wary about comparing my wealth to others. Brace yourself for cheese but... time to spend with my family is priceless to me. Or for that matter time to spend by myself, or doing anything where someone doesn't own my time. If I can have a healthy family, bills paid, live in comfort, BBQ most weekends, and have some of that priceless time to enjoy it, AND not hate my job I'll consider myself wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 28, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 28, 2016 Wealthy = spending less then you make..... Filthy rich = doing this for a career! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBanner Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I'll try not to get on my wealth soapbox here...but if you dont think you cant be wealthy on 150-200k per year....you need to seriously overhaul your relationship with money. I think people get hung up on the perception of wealth, especially professionals. But it's just a perception. Who is 'wealthier', someone with no debt or maybe modest mortgage debt, a joint income of say 140k, and massive savings rate on track to be financially independent by their early 40's.....or someone who makes 350k, has a 500k mortgage, a 60k car, travels to lavish locations 3 times a year, has a country club membership, sends their kids to premium schools, buys everything retail, and outsources everything--lawn care, auto maintenance, home repairs, child care, etc.....? Consumerism has infected us all and is why most working people wont retire until they are 60 or older, and will never be financially independent. The path to wealth--as I'd define it-- is deceptively simple: Systematically and ruthlessly eliminate debt Live well below your means---modest car, modest small home, minimize frivolous expenses Don't outsource anything unless the benefit outweighs the cost/risk. Invest the surplus. You should aim for a 50% savings rate, and preferably higher if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croooz Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Salary surveys are not accurate. You can become wealthy however it will not happen in a decade nor if your debt-to-income ratio is too high. Eradicate your debt and invest. Work hard to get to one million dollars invested and let compounding interest handle the rest. Wealth will come but it takes time and discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 My old outlook - if you went into medicine to make a lot of money - wrong profession for the wrong reasons. Wealth is relative. What do you want versus what do you need? How much do you want to work to achieve those goals? How much is time at home worth? When do you want to retire? We own some rental properties now that will provide monthly income when we are retired and can be sold for cash input if needed. Otherwise, I have what I NEED and I try to appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 why are you trying to get wealthy, anyway? Is that what you said to your interviewer for PA school? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8404PA Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 but I know I am not going to be satisfied with this level of income. Edited to remove my knee-jerk disgust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMtoPA Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'll try not to get on my wealth soapbox here...but if you dont think you cant be wealthy on 150-200k per year....you need to seriously overhaul your relationship with money. I think people get hung up on the perception of wealth, especially professionals. But it's just a perception. Who is 'wealthier', someone with no debt or maybe modest mortgage debt, a joint income of say 140k, and massive savings rate on track to be financially independent by their early 40's.....or someone who makes 350k, has a 500k mortgage, a 60k car, travels to lavish locations 3 times a year, has a country club membership, sends their kids to premium schools, buys everything retail, and outsources everything--lawn care, auto maintenance, home repairs, child care, etc.....? Consumerism has infected us all and is why most working people wont retire until they are 60 or older, and will never be financially independent. The path to wealth--as I'd define it-- is deceptively simple: Systematically and ruthlessly eliminate debt Live well below your means---modest car, modest small home, minimize frivolous expenses Don't outsource anything unless the benefit outweighs the cost/risk. Invest the surplus. You should aim for a 50% savings rate, and preferably higher if possible. Ugh - count me out. Saving is one thing, but 50%? Whenever I encounter Dave-Ramsey-evangelizer types, I just can't help but think, what about the now? if you're always saving for the future, when do you finally allow yourself to enjoy the fruits of your labor? I seriously doubt after decades of pinching pennies that anyone can unlearn being that degree of a cheapskate. I agree that saving is important, but there has to be a balance between enjoying yourself in the present and planning for the future. Quite honestly, I'd be perfectly content to die with $0.35 in my bank account - because you can't take it with you! Not only that, but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewb Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Whenever I encounter Dave-Ramsey-evangelizer types, I just can't help but think, what about the now? if you're always saving for the future, when do you finally allow yourself to enjoy the fruits of your labor? I seriously doubt after decades of pinching pennies that anyone can unlearn being that degree of a cheapskate. I agree to an extent. Living in a financially responsible way is a discipline, just like eating right and exercise. It can be taken too far. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to accumulate wealth. You can do well and do good. I have a responsibility to my family to maintain financial security. I went on the job market after my first masters at the nadir of the financial crisis. It was a horrible feeling. Now if someone said they expected to get rich in a PA interview I'd tell them to go into finance and work on Wall Street because they are on the slow track to join the yacht club. But if they blithely said they didn't care about money and only wanted to help people... I'd roll my eyes. I like helping people too, my family most of all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Invest the surplus. You should aim for a 50% savings rate, and preferably higher if possible. Agree with everything in your post...except for THIS. 50% savings rate is excessive. After taxes, tithing, then 50% savings....do you get to LIVE? I'm not a Dave Ramsey sycophant, but his focus on aggressively paying off debt, and other general strategies, are certainly paths to success. Pay off debt. Emergency savings of 3-6 months expenses Save 15% of income for retirement (I greatly disagree with how he pushes for actively managed retirement accounts) Pay no more than 25% of income for mortgage, on a 15 year fixed, and try to pay it off in 7 years. Once you're doing this....then, as he says "live, and GIVE, like no-one else" We all kinda beat up on the OP here, but his handle is "SoCal PA", and perhaps we are not taking into account that in many areas (CA, NY, DC) a $150K income doesn't get you very much at all. Add in potential of $100K+ of student debt, rent that can exceed 2-3K a month, incredibly high taxes....and I can see where the OP may be looking at $150K and asking why the stress of the job is worth it. Of course, the answer to THAT problem is.....MOVE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBanner Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Ugh - count me out. Saving is one thing, but 50%? Whenever I encounter Dave-Ramsey-evangelizer types, I just can't help but think, what about the now? if you're always saving for the future, when do you finally allow yourself to enjoy the fruits of your labor? I seriously doubt after decades of pinching pennies that anyone can unlearn being that degree of a cheapskate. I agree that saving is important, but there has to be a balance between enjoying yourself in the present and planning for the future. Quite honestly, I'd be perfectly content to die with $0.35 in my bank account - because you can't take it with you! Not only that, but none of us are guaranteed tomorrow... Common consumer refrain. There is this grand misconception that the less you spend the less you enjoy life. Saving >50% seems extreme to most Americans, and indeed by today's consumer standards it is! I'm still not there. But it's necessary if you want financial independence while you are still relatively young. The way I see it, I can be a typical American consumer and save about 10%, inflate my lifestyle and accommodations every few years, "live for the now" (aka spend for happiness), and retire at the typical age of 60-65 if I'm lucky. OR---I could never inflate my lifestyle, stay in my little starter home, pay off my vehicles and drive them till they fall apart, do work myself instead of outsourcing everything, and retire 20 years before my peers so I can LIVE without being chained to employment and that precious few weeks of vacation every year. There is a spectrum of savings and frugality. What seems absurd to you is normal for me, and there are people a few levels above me saving living on rice and beans, having no hobbies that cost money, and riding a bike everywhere...which I find unappealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asclepius Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I find this thread very telling about some of my personal concerns in regards to income, wealth-perception, and being financially content in life. I'm at a point where, introspectively, I find myself thinking quite often about the long-term ramifications of my less than optimal financial decisions - (e.g. not saving/investing as much, and lack of real estate prowess). I feel like I'm behind the proverbial eight-ball in certain aspects in life. BruceBanner is definitely right...consumerism a disease. Also, WorkHardPlayHard is spot-on about NOT being chained to your job as a means to escape the rat race sooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UVAPAC Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Here are my thoughts as a 30 year old PA-C, 3 years out of school. I am making $110,000 a year salary (40 hours a week). I work per-diem in urgent care on weekends making $65 an hour and pick up at least 1-2 shifts a month. 1) Paid off all school loans 2) Purchased a house (30 year fixed mortgage, rate 4.00%, pay an additional $150 in principal a month). 3) Put 10% from both jobs in retirement funds. The hospital matches 2%, effectively making it 12% savings on salary. 4) Max out Roth IRA every year ($5,500) as my wife and my combined income is just under the $185,000) 5) Have well over 6 months salary sitting in a money market savings account. I don't live a very lavish lifestyle, although we are very comfortable. We got to a sporting event here and there, a concert here and there, and go on one nice vacation a year. Our dog lives like a king... As for investing and the market... In my own non-professional opinion, the market is extremely inflated right now and it is more or less a bad time to be investing large chunks of money. I have about 35% of my savings invested in stocks, and the other 65% on the sideline in bonds/monkey market savings. I will wait for a dip in the market and buy accordingly. Agree with mentioned above, passive funds historically perform as well as actively managed funds at a lesser fee. I have plenty of friends who make less money, with bigger houses, and nicer cars... but the reality is when retirement comes there are going to be a lot of people in this country in a bad situation, and desperately relying on social security to come each and every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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