andersenpa Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 Physician assistants graduate to unemployment line Ontario’s first crop of physician assistants are graduating this summer but some fear they could be heading straight to the unemployment lines or leaving the province to find a job. PAs, as they are known in the health field, are stalwarts in military medicine and popular in most U.S. hospitals. Nearly four years ago, the Ontario government decided to begin a program to introduce PAs here as one way to handle the doctor shortage. McMaster University started the first provincial PA program in 2008. Now, the first of 21 graduates leave McMaster this August armed with a BSc in PA and nothing but faint promises from the provincial health ministry that jobs will be found for them in the health system....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdenning Posted May 28, 2010 Share Posted May 28, 2010 If you check the Ontario Health website, there are some PA jobs posted - but they appear to be out of urban centers so those positions will be harder to fill. If I was a new grad desperate for a job though, I would consider going just about anywhere....although I don't imagine northern Ontario is a balmy place in the winter. I was under the impression that there is a province wide initiative to utilize PAs in ERs for patient triage and "fast tracking" - but maybe that's not the case. There has been a lot of resistance to PAs in Ontario especially from the Registered Nurses of Ontario, who have launched an all out turf war. Unfortunately, the NCCPA hasn't accepted the Canadian programs for accreditation yet, so it's not like they can come south of the border and take the PANCE and start practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted May 28, 2010 Moderator Share Posted May 28, 2010 then why are they still recruiting american pa's ? I get something from them once/mo or so with maybe a dozen em pa jobs on it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeadude Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 i feel sorry for those guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted May 30, 2010 Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2010 Unfortunately, the NCCPA hasn't accepted the Canadian programs for accreditation yet, so it's not like they can come south of the border and take the PANCE and start practicing. This is confusing....why would you have a program that wouldn't allow you to take the PANCE, even if you just plan to stay in Canada? No wonder they'll have trouble finding jobs.... I'm assuming that the NCCPA just doesn't have a mechanism in place for international programs yet, as this is the very first one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted May 30, 2010 Share Posted May 30, 2010 Like here, the profession was seen as a way to increase access to underserved populations in places that had a hard time attracting providers. It is my understanding that there are jobs, but like physicians here, the PAs don't want to move out to the boonies to work them. It seems that they want to stay in the major metro areas that are inundated with locally trained physicians and IMGs. This is confusing....why would you have a program that wouldn't allow you to take the PANCE, even if you just plan to stay in Canada? No wonder they'll have trouble finding jobs.... I'm assuming that the NCCPA just doesn't have a mechanism in place for international programs yet, as this is the very first one? Not the first Program (look up Tubman in Liberia Africa)... None of the international program grads take the PANCE just like none of them take the USMLE or the board certification exams until they are actually trying to work in the USA. If you think about it... this makes sense because whereever they trained, the law of THAT land applies. So taking a test based upon the practice norms in the USA doesn't make sense unless the graduate is gonna practice in the US. This may also have to do with accreditation (why allow someone to take your proprietary test if you can't ensure consistency in their training or security of the test material/content?) Just a few thoughts... Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted May 30, 2010 Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2010 Like here, the profession was seen as a way to increase access to underserved populations in places that had a hard time attracting providers.It is my understanding that there are jobs, but like physicians here, the PAs don't want to move out to the boonies to work them. Not the first Program (look up Tubman in Liberia Africa)... None of the international program grads take the PANCE just like none of them take the USMLE until they are actually trying to work in the USA. This has to do with accredidation (why allow someone to take your proprietary test if you can't ensure consistancy in their training or security of the test materiel/content?) Point taken. Interesting to read about the Tubman program....around since 1965??? They apparently have their own version of the PANCE as well. From their website: PROFESSIONAL CERTIFICATIONPhysician Assistant program graduates are eligible to sit for the Physician Asst. National Certification Examination administered by the Liberia National Physician Assistant Examination Boards. The certification is only issued to successful candidates. I know you spent a lot of in Africa...ever meet grads from this program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdn PA Student Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hi all, I am currently a first year PA student at McMaster University in Ontario. Just to update you on the situation here in Ontario... There are currently only two PA positions that are posted on the Health Force Ontario (Government funded positions). These positions, along with pretty much all of the existing PA positions in Ontario (outside the military) are apart of the "Demonstration Project" which is supposed to be over in March 2011 (most of these demonstration project positions have been filled by American PAs, military PAs and IMGs that have undergone condensed PA training). In the demonstration project, PAs are being used in both rural and urban settings (there are actually more urban sites than rural). These include hospitals in Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, London, Kingston & Windsor. The main issue is not that the graduates do not want to go where the jobs are (there are only 2 jobs to go to and one of the two is in Toronto - the capital of Ontario)... the issue is that the government has not decided how they are going to fund PA positions, and in our publicly funded health care model, without government funding there are no jobs. And in terms of PANCE eligibility, what Contrarian said is for the most part accurate. Canadian PAs have a national standard, a national certification exam and a national body (CAOPA), through which PA schools are accredi. The only Canadian trained PAs that are eligible to take the PANCE are military trained PAs, as they receive their degree through the University of Nebraska (which is kind of ironic being as they are probably the least likely to leave Canada to practice). Hope this helps with your understanding of the current situation in Ontario! CdnPA Student Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Point taken. Interesting to read about the Tubman program....around since 1965??? They apparently have their own version of the PANCE as well. From their website: I know you spent a lot of time in Africa...ever meet grads from this program? Yes... they have their own version of the PANCE with lots of local "flavor." Consider that in most of the countries on that continient... the only medication that a written rx is needed for is Shedule II. ALL other meds are generally OTC for anyone who can afford them. So any ole jane/joe can walk into a Pharmacy and walk out with Doxy; Erythro; Keflex; Levothyrox; etc... so you can imagine how just this alone would impact how you would practice there and why/where an american focused PANCE wouldn't necessarily apply. I've never worked with any Tubman grads... but was contacted by them about a teaching position at Tubman. It didn't pay much so, I declined and told them that I may consider it in 5 yrs when my youngest is away in college... at that time, my wife and I would consider either something like this or maybe MercyShips. As for my understanding of the problem with jobs for new grad PAs in Canada... I stated it as it was explained to me by a Canadian PA-C (former Military) who does locum work on this side of the border (he works here in our town as its 30miles from Vancouver BC border). He is married to a American lady, lives in Whiterock, works there (in BC) but does locum here since its only a 40 min drive between the two. Of course... CdnPA Student would know better than I and naturally have much more up to date info on this issue. YMMV Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowleopard Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hey everyone! I was just wondering what the current situation looks like for PA's in Ontario. I am going to be completing my 4th year of university this year and will be applying to McMaster very soon! I did read that the demonstration projects have been successful and that they will be extended another 2 years but what happens after these two years? And have all of the PA graduates found jobs? --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.628814,-79.719741 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annezca Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 As far as I know, all have found jobs (first class of graduating physician assistants from McMaster). The second class just completed their second year, and it looks like the government has jsut announced funding for jobs for both McMaster and U of T graduates: http://www.healthforceontario.ca/upload/en/work/pa-announcement-employer-august-2011-en.pdf The Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care is pleased to announce that applications for support to employ Ontario’s 2011 physician assistant (PA) graduates are now available. Financial support of between $46,000 and $92,000 annually will be provided to help eligible employers provide employment opportunities for PA graduates for two years. A one-time only supervisory support of $10,000 is available to supervising physicians. An additional $10,000 is being offered as an incentive for PAs who accept positions in underserviced geographies. Opportunities for PA graduates will be supported in high priority areas where the focus will be on the reduction of wait times and improved access to patient care. Clinical areas include: • Emergency Medicine • Primary Care (Community Health Centres, Aboriginal Health Access Centres and Family Health Teams) • General Internal Medicine A limited number of employers in other clinical settings will be also be given consideration. Priority will be given to opportunities in high need geographic areas. Hope that helps answer your question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowleopard Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Thanks for the update! I do know that they Have been providing funding for the graduates, it just seems that it's always so last minute. I guess the better question is what would happen to the first year students if they decide to stop providing funding? Is this even an option with how far the programs have come since 2008? --- I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.628850,-79.719656 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroom Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Can't say I know any more than the previous Cdn PA poster but I start my first year of the program next week (a little nervous) so I imagine they will be covering this topic in our orientation. I'll fill you in when I hear what the situation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAstudentCanada Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 See http://premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54846 and http://www.healthforceontario.ca/Work/OutsideOntario/HealthProfessionalsOutsideOntario/OntarioPhysicianAssistantInitiative/pa_2011.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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