acvdmlac Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hi, I'm looking for perspectives on the feasibility of returning to my current acupuncture practice with the addition of the California P.A. license, were I to be admitted to P.A. school (I have an application in the queue). Without hesitation I can say that I'd like the additional training, scope, etc. of a P.A., but it has to be a sound decision for me financially, logistically etc. as I am 47 and so will have only 15-20 years left in the workforce to make up for the tuition and lost earnings. I am happy in many ways with my current acupuncture private practice, specializing in sports, orthopedics, & PM&R, 50% physician referrals & 50% self-referred. My business has averaged $75-80k/year for the last 5 years, pretty much maxed out in my competitive locale, and no benefits, PTO, retirement etc. except what I pay for myself. Thinking of hiring another acupuncturist to run my practice on a fee split basis while in school, then return to my practice with added PA training/scope etc. and find/hire a physician supervisor (I have several candidates already) and practice integrative medicine with the scopes of both licenses. Any one out there who's already done this? Any perspectives, experience, advice to share? Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevs Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm interested in this as well. Have you spoken to the CA medical board about working under both licenses? At one of my PA school interviews, it was suggested that this was not possible. However, I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoedoc Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I am also looking at working both under dual licensure.. I am a chiropractor and I would like to work under a PA and a chiropratic professions. I think I can work chiropractic on a different day and a seperate office, and work as a PA in a hospital setting ect.. Does anyone know specifically? I live in Nevada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 2, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2012 there is a pa near me who is a ND, PA-c, LAc and runs an alternative med. clinic for a major hmo utilizing all of those skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevs Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 During one of my interviews, the interviewer was adamant that I could no longer practice acupuncture if I was a PA. However, I think she was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldmanrachel Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hi there, I am an L.Ac. just getting into the process of preparing for a PA program in Oregon. If you don't mind sharing, what kind of response did you get from the schools you applied to with regard to your experience as an acupuncturist counting as health care experience for your application? Do you have other licenses/certifications? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 25, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 25, 2012 During one of my interviews, the interviewer was adamant that I could no longer practice acupuncture if I was a PA. However, I think she was wrong. She is. In Washington, a PA no longer needs to maintain a separate acupuncturist license to practice acupuncture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 She is. In Washington, a PA no longer needs to maintain a separate acupuncturist license to practice acupuncture. Reference (WAC & RCW) please... otherwise its just "hear-say"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 25, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2012 She is. In Washington, a PA no longer needs to maintain a separate acupuncturist license to practice acupuncture. cool, so I can start randomly sticking needles in folks and tell them I am looking for their meridians?....:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hubbardtim48 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 That wouldn't turn people away from CAM! :) E with needles!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I talked to the state of Washington about 5 years ago about doing acupuncture. I, as a PA, cannot practice acupuncture unless I go to school and get a license just like any acupuncturist. While an MD could start putting needles in people tomorrow and calling it acupuncture without any required additional training. That's what the state told me. Has the law changed? Now there is a gray area that I would not mess in and that is where a MD "delegated" to you the authority to do acupuncture . . . but that would be on thin ice. Regarding the other question, I've never heard of any kind of clause that says you can't practice under two licenses at the same time if you perform the duties that those licenses allow. From example, while you can put up a shingle and practice independently as a licensed acupuncturist, you better never write a prescription for a patient . . . unless you have a practice agreement with a SP. But if you have the proper PA license and supervisory agreement and the proper acupuncturist license, you can do both. Another issue will be insurance reimbursement. If the insurance doesn't pay for acupuncture, you better never bill it as a medical visit if you only did acupuncture. If your evaluated the patient, did an exam and prescribed treatment, then did acupuncture . . . you could bill for the medical part but not for the acupuncture time unless they paid for that as part of their benefits for that patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 25, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 25, 2012 Reference (WAC & RCW) please... otherwise its just "hear-say"... RCW 18.71A.085 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=18.71A.085 "Any physician assistant acupuncturist currently licensed by the commission may continue to perform acupuncture under the physician assistant license as long as he or she maintains licensure as a physician assistant." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I talked to the state of Washington about 5 years ago about doing acupuncture. I, as a PA, cannot practice acupuncture unless I go to school and get a license just like any acupuncturist. While an MD could start putting needles in people tomorrow and calling it acupuncture without any required additional training. That's what the state told me. Has the law changed? Also my understanding of the law... which is why I asked for the WAC/RCW that says otherwise. My good friend and one of my contracted SPs in my private clinic is a MD who is Board Certified in Family Practice, Addiction Medicine and Acupuncture. He actually took a yr long evening course in Acupuncture. Interestingly, I met him in early 2008 in the barbershop I'm a investor/silent partner in. We were both waiting on a haircut and he kept looking at me weird when all the barbers and regular patrons kept calling me "Doc" and we both kept responding. We talked a little that day and he called the barbershop looking for me a few days later and offered me a $114k/yr job in Addiction Medicine. He used Allopathic medicine and Acupuncture for treating addiction and pain and after researching the rules, he could NOT allow me to perform acupuncture unless I attended a acupuncture program and got certified in it, but over a few yrs taught me quite a bit. That experience altered some of my veiws of CAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 your last post Ok... thanks. So, if the PA is a L.Ac./EAMP prior to becoming a PA or attends a L.Ac. program after becoming a PA then yes they can practice both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treejay Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 to the OP: The director of the PA program at Rush University in Chicago is a L.Ac. She might be a resource. Nice woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 25, 2012 Administrator Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ok... thanks.So, if the PA is a L.Ac./EAMP prior to becoming a PA or attends a L.Ac. program after becoming a PA then yes they can practice both. Right. Without needing to maintain separate licenses, but looks to me like you needed to have both PA-C and acupuncturist licenses at the same time before taking advantage of that in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevs Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hi there, I am an L.Ac. just getting into the process of preparing for a PA program in Oregon. If you don't mind sharing, what kind of response did you get from the schools you applied to with regard to your experience as an acupuncturist counting as health care experience for your application? Do you have other licenses/certifications? Thanks! Yes, acupuncture would count as health care experience. Be prepared to explain why you want to move from being an independent provider to a dependent provider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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