How do you get your HCE?

[Frankie C]

I was going to enroll in a CST program to gain my HCE and also boost my GPA, since some CST programs are at accredited Community Colleges or State Colleges, however I was wondering would it be more beneficial to just get an EMT certification since its a lot shorter and less expensive. By being shorter I can start gaining more hours.

 

CST

Length of Program: 13.5 months

Cost: $6,000

 

EMT

Length of Program: 3 months

Cost: $1,800

 

 

I was also wondering for the people who are CST's going into PA school, do they feel more prepared because they had extensive schooling compared to EMT's, CNA's, etc etc.

[Just Steve]

assuming by CST you mean surgical tech...i was one...and was a paramedic...

 

1800 seems awful steep for an EMT basic course...that the best deal going?

 

Lots of folks here really support the CNA route

 

The more you get immersed into talking to patients, the better quality of care I think. The training of CST is good, the experience helpful, but you're not talking to patients. The act of asking someone all their personal details can be a little weird. The more experience you have doing that, the more helpful it is. 80% of the diagnosis comes from your history/physical. You get the most experience doing that as an EMT or paramedic

[adjk1229]

I've been a CNA for almost two years and it's great exposure to the healthcare field. My only advice is get into a hospital to be an aid and don't get sucked into a nursing home. Although interesting, you get tired of seeing COPD, CHF, stroke and so on. Not very exciting, but the hospital or ER will give you a much better experience.

[laifalove]

It's somewhat difficult to get a job in the hospital as a CNA though, unless you have connections. I've had trouble finding one for awhile now and was told by my clinical instructor that in order to get a job, you need to either get your foot in the door doing something else or have someone already working in the hospital hook you up. Most hospitals want someone that's got at least 2 years experience, SNFs (skilled nursing facilities) are a little more flexible on that end. I don't know if that's just where I am, but I've seen other people on the forum say they've got trouble too for the same reasons. Being a CNA though is definitely something different, it's healthcare at its most basic form, you really get to know how to talk to patients and care for them better than most other jobs. I still haven't found a job as a CNA but the clinical training hours I spent earning my certificate were a good experience, I used to work as an MA and it's not the same. Some CNA programs can be as little as two months. Mine was 2 months and about $800. I know the Red Cross offers the program as well for about 2-3 months and the price is I think $1100? It might vary by area though. Most CCs have CNA training programs too that are just one quarter/semester long.

[Frankie C]

The cost was a quoted by a community college and its like 12 credit hours over three months. Are there more cost efficient ways to get certified as a EMT? And as a CST I forgot you don't get to take that much of the patient history in comparison to a EMT! I think I'll deff go EMT now for sure :D

[Frankie C]

Also, is it difficult finding a job as a EMT?

[adjk1229]

If you can manage to get into a volunteer or paid ambulance corp, they might pay for it for you, although you might be obligated to serve them for a little bit.

[HopefulPA]

Either one will be good experience.

[Molly2390]

I agree that is even hard to find a CNA job. I had a really hard time finding one and even was told by two nursing homes that they preferred someone going into nursing rather than PA. I felt like I couldn't lie when asked my 5-10 year career goals...I have had better luck looking at Craigslist-medical section and was able to find an assistant position at a wellness center working with physicians, nurse practitioners, physical therapists, chiropractors, etc. You just have to really search and dig through job postings! Also, they are hard to find, but Clinical Research Assistant positions seem to be great experience for PA school as well.

[hiiamalysha]

CNA is great experience. I have only been working as a CNA for a few months, but I work in home care and everyday is different, which has given me great experience and insight. I've really learned how to deal with unexpected situations. As a CNA you are fully involved in every aspect of your patients health (physically and emotionally) and you are the first one to see signs of any issues or needs. (well that is my experience so far) I want to get experience in the hospital, but home care is perfect for my 19 credit hour school life which consists of 4 science classes.

[taotaox1]

Gonna vote EMT... you will get the chance to learn assesment and make decisions based on your findings . Much closer to your role as a PA than CNA would be. Also, you can work as a pct as an emt at some places- but not the other way around. That said, CNA can be good HCE... but it can also be drudgery/grunt work.

 

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[momed]

I have worked as a Paramedic for the last 8 years and an EMT for 4 years before that. I would have to say that EMT would be the best way to go. You can apply to not only ambulance services but hospitals also accept EMT cert to qualify for Tech jobs in the ER or floor. The experience that I have gained over the years has been invaluable and has already proven an asset. I started PA school a month and a half ago and I have built on my prehospital experience. Good luck on whatever route you take!

[mktalon]

It's great that you are actually getting experience, so props for that! Jobs are getting tougher to come by no matter which route you go. The thing is, the experience is what you make it. I know medics that would never make it in PA school, as well as CNAs that that would never make it either. I know medics that are brilliant and should get into PA school even if their old GPAs are in the pits. I don't know many CNAs that I can say that about. The work of a medic is far removed from that of a CNA, but being a proactive CNA can be good experience as well. For me, I went the route that I knew I could get a job, and I am very happy about where that has led me so far. But I have been very proactive the entire time. I guess my point is to apply yourself 100% whatever you end up doing, and it will be good experience (assuming it includes direct patient care). Good luck.

[Colorado]

I would definately vote for EMT as well. In my experience (living in Virginia and Colorado recently), CNA jobs occasionally show up for the hospitals around here, but they usually consist of SOME direct patient care, but more running around getting supplies and helping to move patients about. They are also more limited in their scope of practice than EMTs in Colorado it seems. As an NREMT-B/IV I can do all the things a NREMT-B is trained to do, including all the drugs covered in the EMT course, along with administer EKGs (I can tell you what the rhythms/events are as well and provide EMT-B tx for them, but then things generally head into the realm of a paramedic with drugs to push), start peripheral IVs, blood draws, phlebotomy, and administer IV NS fluid and D50 (Narcan as well, but not under my current company protocols).

 

I currently work for a private ambulance company and am about to start volunteering with a volunteer system as well. I would like to work in a hospital at some point because I enjoyed my time in one in Virginia during my EMT class.

 

However, whatever you choose, keep in mind your long term goals. I looked at taking my EMT class at a local community college because it fit my schedule best, but they were going to charge me out of state tuition for it because I had only lived in the state for a month. The tuition cost was going to be over $2000! I simply could not afford it and so I looked into it further and found out that I could still go to the same college for the course, but through the workforce development program (no credit hours) and I only paid just over $400 for it. It worked out better because although I had to wait an extra three months to take my course, I saved money and I was in the first class to be in the new health professions building with ALL NEW equipment and training gear! :)

 

So, EMT, it lends itself to better PT care in my opinion and you have the opportunity to obtain additional certs and advance to an EMT-I (AEMT or EMT-E etc.) or EMT-Paramedic in the future.

Good luck!

[bigdude]

I don't think CNA experience is a good choice, go the EMT route. The two PA schools in my area (U of D and Wayne State) will NOT count CNA experience as HCE. Both schools indicated that there are certain assessment skills that are not taught nor learned while being a CNA. You are expected to come to the table with certain skills when you start PA school, and I don't think making beds, changing diapers and colostomy bags is what they mean. The PA profession was developed for the medic so I would an EMT is a better option.

 

Personally, I think CNA is bottom of the barrel HCE. If you are serious about being a PA then you should be serious about obtaining your HCE.

[EMEDPA]

some cna's work as "pt care techs, er techs, or critical care techs", all reasonably good experience. I agree with the above thought that "traditional cna" roles are probably not what the founders of the profession had in mind when they thought about hce. the "traditional applicants" to pa school typically have been rn, rt, and emt-p folks. the last decade has seen the emergence of ms level pa programs and an overall decrease in what is considered appropriate length and intensity of pre-pa hce. "back in the day" I was told that my 5 yrs of ER tech (adv. emt-Defib) experience was not adequate for admission to pa school and that I needed to pursue additional professional health care training.

[bigdude]

some cna's work as "pt care techs, er techs, or critical care techs", all reasonably good experience. I agree with the above thought that "traditional cna" roles are probably not what the founders of the profession had in mind when they thought about hce. the "traditional applicants" to pa school typically have been rn, rt, and emt-p folks. the last decade has seen the emergence of ms level pa programs and an overall decrease in what is considered appropriate length and intensity of pre-pa hce. "back in the day" I was told that my 5 yrs of ER tech (adv. emt-Defib) experience was not adequate for admission to pa school and that I needed to pursue additional professional health care training.

 

I agree 100%.

[mktalon]

I don't think CNA experience is a good choice, go the EMT route. The two PA schools in my area (U of D and Wayne State) will NOT count CNA experience as HCE. Both schools indicated that there are certain assessment skills that are not taught nor learned while being a CNA. You are expected to come to the table with certain skills when you start PA school, and I don't think making beds, changing diapers and colostomy bags is what they mean. The PA profession was developed for the medic so I would an EMT is a better option.

 

Personally, I think CNA is bottom of the barrel HCE. If you are serious about being a PA then you should be serious about obtaining your HCE.

 

Where exactly did you read or hear that these schools will NOT accept CNA experience? I quote from Wayne State's FAQ: "It is preferable that students have direct patient care experience in settings such as hospitals or clinics. Some examples of experience include, but are not limited to : EMT or paramedic, health educator, RN, patient care attendant or nurse's aide..."

Is this a new development or are you incorrect in your statement. I understand that you don't like CNA experience, but there are many qualified people out there that are getting CNA experience. For instance, I have a friend who's official title in the hospital is "CNA." He is getting great experience. Is it paramedic? No. But I don't think running a code, or suturing a laceration is all that necessary experience if one wants to become a dermatology PA. And to the poster that says that CNA's dont get much direct patient care, that is just flat out WRONG in my area. CNA's get almost entirely direct patient care experience. In the nursing homes, they probably get more face time with patients than the nurses. I'm not a CNA, but if you are going to criticize the experience, at least get your facts straight.

[Just Steve]

or suturing a laceration is all that necessary experience if one wants to become a dermatology PA.

uuhhmmm.....someone has to close those excisions.

 

I cringed when I saw bigdude call CNA bottom of the barrel... that was a bit harsh on a bunch of folks who do some of the most physically demanding work for the lowest pay.

[mktalon]

uuhhmmm.....someone has to close those excisions.

 

Oops, sorry my bad, I didn't develop that sentence fully because I was ranting too quickly. The suturing comment was meant for psych PAs. But then again, maybe even psych PAs need to do some suturing every now and then. The point remains though that there are other jobs that can provide appropriate experience, depending on what one wants to do as a PA.

[bigdude]

Where exactly did you read or hear that these schools will NOT accept CNA experience? I quote from Wayne State's FAQ: "It is preferable that students have direct patient care experience in settings such as hospitals or clinics. Some examples of experience include, but are not limited to : EMT or paramedic, health educator, RN, patient care attendant or nurse's aide..."

Is this a new development or are you incorrect in your statement. I understand that you don't like CNA experience, but there are many qualified people out there that are getting CNA experience. For instance, I have a friend who's official title in the hospital is "CNA." He is getting great experience. Is it paramedic? No. But I don't think running a code, or suturing a laceration is all that necessary experience if one wants to become a dermatology PA. And to the poster that says that CNA's dont get much direct patient care, that is just flat out WRONG in my area. CNA's get almost entirely direct patient care experience. In the nursing homes, they probably get more face time with patients than the nurses. I'm not a CNA, but if you are going to criticize the experience, at least get your facts straight.

 

I got this information from the admissions committee, from both schools. They told me in person. I then asked why does your website state it is acceptable? I got a very long answer, in short, she said right now PA school is competitive and there is never a shortage of applicants with solid HCE like RN, Medic, RT, etc. So accepting someone with sub-par HCE would not happen. She also stated CNA experience would be acceptable combined with other experience. This what I WAS TOLD from the two schools, so don't get an attitude with me. Call them to verify it if you don't believe me. In addition, I have about 12 friends to applied to both schools with top GPAs, high GREs and CNA HCE, none of them got accepted to either school unfortunately. On their rejection letters it stated areas of improvement were HCE.

 

I think you're missing the point with CNA experience. There are certain skills that you need to know when starting PA school that will not be taught. CNA experience will not provide those skills. I think CNA experience is good when coupled with something else. Just spending time with patients while you give them a bath does not translate into useful skills as a PA.

[mackjacks]

I have 2 friends who went to Wayne and 1 at U of D who were CNAs for healthcare experience, so some do get in. These students all went to undergrad at U of M so coming from a top university probably helped their application. In addition, students who enroll in U of D's 5 year BS+MS program are REQUIRED to get certified at least as a CNA and obtain 1,000 hours to continue into the PA part of their curriculum, but CNA is accepted.

[bigdude]

uuhhmmm.....someone has to close those excisions.

 

I cringed when I saw bigdude call CNA bottom of the barrel... that was a bit harsh on a bunch of folks who do some of the most physically demanding work for the lowest pay.

 

My intent was not to insult those folks. It is physically demanding but there is reason it's the lowest pay. In my state CNAs are not licensed, only certified by the Red Cross after a 2-week class. As a result they are not legally responsible for the patient, the RN is. So they are only given tasks that are simple and hard to mess up. I think CNA experience is great if you plan to become a nurse, but I don't think it is useful for prospective PAs.

 

EMEDPA stated this and it I think it is insightful: "I agree with the above thought that "traditional cna" roles are probably not what the founders of the profession had in mind when they thought about hce."

[bigdude]

I have 2 friends who went to Wayne and 1 at U of D who were CNAs for healthcare experience, so some do get in. These students all went to undergrad at U of M so coming from a top university probably helped their application. In addition, students who enroll in U of D's 5 year BS+MS program are REQUIRED to get certified at least as a CNA and obtain 1,000 hours to continue into the PA part of their curriculum, but CNA is accepted.

 

Thats good to hear, wonder why I was told different. On that note, all my friends who got rejected and only had CNA experience competely aborted the PA goal and now are going to nursing school. Now they are trying to convince me to do the NP instead of PA...

[mktalon]

bigdude, with all due respect, I wasn't getting an attitude with you. But if we are going to continue this conversation, you said: "The two schools in my area....wil NOT count CNA experience as HCE." There is a big difference between it not qualifying for HCE and it not being considered top tier experience. There is a poster on this very thread who attended one of those schools you mentioned, who got her/his experience as a home health aid. It is one thing to misspeak about something (as I did earlier in this thread). It is another to do so in such a malicious tone as to insult an entire group of workers. Are there tiers to the quality of HCE? Absolutely. Medic is better experience than CNA. But a 4.0 GPA is also better than a 3.2. If your cumulative undergrad GPA was anything less than a 4.0 would you disqualify yourself from PA school because you didn't take your academics as "seriously" as your HCE? Both are important factors when it comes to a competent applicant. I just ask that you please don't come on here and discredit an entire group of people that have gotten through PA school and are now competent practicing PAs, who also happened to get their HCE as CNAs.