Possible to do Clinical Rotations more part time? How flexible is scheduling??

[midoritori2013]

So  I'm in my 30s and I have children.  How much can they work with you to find a schedule that works for you? Could I, say, do rotations most days so that it's between 8-4? Is this out of the question with some late nights thrown in?

 

My dream really is to be a PA or an MD. Because of the brutal residency that MDs have to do, I decided with kids that wasn't the avenue I should take.  I feel for me it  would be too much time away from home. Someone said that PAs don't have to do same kind of 24 + hour long rotations, but I just read they do.

 

What is accurate and do we have to do very long rotations?  I'm so torn here.

 

Thanks

[rev ronin]

Not all rotations will be long and brutal, but a few will be.  Talk to a few PAs about how their rotations went.

 

Also: Moving topic to pre-PA area.

[dchampigny]

So  I'm in my 30s and I have children.  How much can they work with you to find a schedule that works for you? Could I, say, do rotations most days so that it's between 8-4? Is this out of the question with some late nights thrown in?

 

My dream really is to be a PA or an MD. Because of the brutal residency that MDs have to do, I decided with kids that wasn't the avenue I should take.  I feel for me it  would be too much time away from home. Someone said that PAs don't have to do same kind of 24 + hour long rotations, but I just read they do.

 

What is accurate and do we have to do very long rotations?  I'm so torn here.

 

Thanks

 

 

To think that the rotations done during PA school are just some sort of cake walk where you can schedule your own hours, take your own lunch whenever you want, go home when you feel like it, is kind of ludicrous. Many times you as the student are there hours before the attendings and residents to get started on your own work. Asking for a "part time" schedule will not win you any friends on the rotation, as everyone is tired/overworked/working a million hours a week.

 

The rotational year is meant to simulate what the life of a PA/MD/DO/NP is in that particular field. While there probably is some flexibility if you really need to iron out a schedule, many times there is not a schedule. You show up when you are told. You take a lunch when the morning patients/surgeries/whatever are finished. And you go home when all the work is done. Whether that's 3 am, 5 am, 9 to 5, 9 to 9, or 3 am to 8 pm (my longest shift during PA school), you do it. 

 

Week totals for me ranged from 35 to 80 hours per week. Weekends, nights, call, etc are rotation dependent. 

[midoritori2013]

This is such a hard decision.  I understand everyone is really crispy, but do they work with parents at all to make sure we ever see our children? Is it really that out of the question?

[Reality Check 2]

Rotations are at the mercy of the preceptor - they are becoming more scarce.

 

You cannot expect to do a surgery rotation from 9-4 at 4 days a week and up and leave during a procedure because "you have to go home". The preceptor has a family and the patient has a family and so does everyone else in the OR.

 

As a student, you are committing time to become a professional. Once in the professional world, you could choose to work part time if you can find the work.

 

But, you have to commit to the learning and BE THERE.

 

So, my honest answer is - either commit or don't do it at all. It is almost 3 years of a lot of learning and absorbing and intense immersion. 

 

I have never heard of part time medical school, part time PA school or part time residencies. Just the way it works.

[rev ronin]

This is such a hard decision.  I understand everyone is really crispy, but do they work with parents at all to make sure we ever see our children? Is it really that out of the question?

While on a surgery rotation, I saw an attending publicly berate an intern in front of the entire department for skipping the weekly physical activity break to visit his neonate son in PICU instead.

[midoritori2013]

Thanks so much guys. I'll think long and hard and may go back when they are older.

[fishbum]

If this is a big deal for you, maybe you could look into NP rather than PA or MD. All of the NP students I've know have had much, much more flexibility than PA students. This is particularly true for online programs. 

[Reality Check 2]

Preceptors shouldn't be turds. Berating a student or intern in public is bad form - but it happens.

 

I am old and, yes, it was a long time ago - but my school told us from the get-go - WE OWN YOU until graduation. If a lecturer changes to 6 pm - you be there. If your rotation is 3rd night in hospital call - YOU ARE THERE. If your FP preceptor delivers babies - YOU DO TOO. Be a sponge, soak it up.

 

If you have a family that can't support that - then maybe PA school isn't going to work.

 

So, this isn't like making up a chemistry lab in undergrad. Preceptors are scarce these days and environments of good learning are hard to come by.

 

One of my classmates QUIT abruptly on a day about 3 months into school because she was 22, married and couldn't for the life of her figure out who was going to cook her husband dinner and do laundry if she was expected to be in a one time night lab with a guest presenter. We all just stared at her as she threw a major tantrum, cried and walked out. So, PA school was not for her.......

 

My students currently are told that THEY WORK MY SCHEDULE. If I start seeing patients at 8 am - they are to be here at 7:45 am and brief themselves on patients. If I leave for lunch, so can they. If I am seeing a patient at 5:20 when we close at 5 - they stay too. If we are done at 3:45 on a weird day - I can tell them they can go but they shouldn't ask. 

 

If a student has a kid thing - I understand - I HAVE KIDS. Life happens. Life just doesn't happen 100% at our convenience and on a schedule we can predict. That is the nature of medicine.

 

I cannot turn away the patient clutching his chest at my front desk at 4:45 and say "Woops, I have to go home and be a Mom, now". I have to work up his chest pain, get him in an ambulance and get him tucked in - THEN I CAN GO HOME. It doesn't happen every day but it is life.

 

I have also scurried into work with my head on fire after changing clothes at the last minute after being barfed on by a kid or having to deal with a major child blowout issue - my patients understand and usually giggle at me for being younger than them and just now going through kid or teen issues.

 

So, again, NO school cannot be part time. Neither is life.

[orthotech85]

I would imagine the short term negative impact of having limited access to you for a little over 2 years would be more than made up for by having a parent with an advanced degree and a better income to match.

[MT2PA]

This is such a hard decision.  I understand everyone is really crispy, but do they work with parents at all to make sure we ever see our children? Is it really that out of the question?

 

The goal of the PA program is to get you an education and clinical experiences.  YOU are responsible for balancing your school and personal life.  The program is not going to plan its curriculum based on making sure a student sees their children/spouse/etc for X hrs each day or week.  That said, many people complete PA school with children but THEY make the time and organize their priorities to see their kids when they can - they don't rely on the program to 'make sure you see your children'.  It's not the program's job to do that.

 

No, all of your rotations are not pulling 24 hr shifts but like others have said: you don't get to dictate what your hours are and some rotations will definitely have 10-12 hours days, overnights, on-call, etc.

[AliB]

 

I am old and, yes, it was a long time ago - but my school told us from the get-go - WE OWN YOU until graduation. If a lecturer changes to 6 pm - you be there. If your rotation is 3rd night in hospital call - YOU ARE THERE. If your FP preceptor delivers babies - YOU DO TOO. Be a sponge, soak it up.

 

 

 

It hasn't changed; they still OWN you ... We just got notified of an upcoming day of guest lectures that goes 8-6 (and does not include a lunch hour).  :(  

[Reality Check 2]

It hasn't changed; they still OWN you ... We just got notified of an upcoming day of guest lectures that goes 8-6 (and does not include a lunch hour).  :(  

 

Ok, that is a touch rude. We got lunch breaks and we were in a campus with some amenities. We did potluck sometimes to keep each other fed and have some not med time to just talk to each other. 

 

On an ER rotation, lunch might not be possible some days. But, on a lecture day - breaks are needed. The brain can only do so much and the butt can only handle so much sitting......

[AliB]

from your post to the faculty's ... yeah, not going to happen. 

 

We are supposed to get a 10 minute break every hour.  Most of the time, it happens.  Some of the time, we get a bit more (if we're getting through the material quickly enough); other times, we're told to take a break if we need to, but they keep plowing through the powerpoints ... To be fair, class scheduled through the lunch hour is very very rare. Also, most of the time, it (or similar excess hours / timing) is proposed to the class, and accepted and agreed to ... but there are a couple of [MD] faculty that have their own [MD] style ... 

 

I strongly suspect the 'no lunch' day is going to be adjusted for the exact reasons you list.  But I bought an extra thick ergonomic seat cushion to add to my chair my first week of our program last summer ... and I keep a grocery bag stocked with snacks, and essentials (chocolate!!!) at my desk.  

[Reality Check 2]

Every class has a tiniest bladder. My classmate set our tempo all those years ago.

I now openly ask who that person is in each class.

That person is expected to give me, as the lecturer, the High Sign that it is time to pee.

I then round up the slide and we get a break.

 

I really try for 5-8 minutes and get everyone up and moving and then back to the next slide.

 

My first job was spine surgery and we did 8-10 hour cases at least one day a week. We got to scrub out during Xrays, one at a time and pee and get a drink or stuff something in our mouth. No one was expected to stay the whole case without a break, not even the surgeon. We had 2 scrub nurses end up with pyelonephritis from trying to stick long cases out.

 

As a lecturer, if I can't make it humane and even a bit fun, then I have missed the point.

[Petunia]

When I was talking to a PA Admissions Counselor, and she was hinting around that if I am married, I will basically be married to school for the next 2 1/2 years, and that's just life.

 

I'm divorced, so this is easy for me... well nothing is easy... but as far as giving my life to a program 24/7, it is easier as a single person

 

I agree about looking into NP.  Where I live there is a part-time BSN program and a part time NP program.  It would take longer to finish, but if you need the time...

 

You also may want to research the Yale online program.  It's a developing program- but honestly, I think doing an online PA program screws you out of having an adequate didactic year.  Comradery, having study partners, and having friends going through what I am is really important to me.

 

Good luck with what you decide!!