Maverick87 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Hey all. I have an interview with a dermatology practice in a couple of weeks. I've already had a phone interview and I like what they had to say. The practice owner seemed to like me as well. I get the feeling that the position is mine if I want it (just a feeling, of course....who knows what will happen). She brought up salary, but I did not have an answer at that time. It seems like it is something that she wants to address during our in-person interview. So what would you all say is a fair salary for someone new to dermatology? I have 3.5 years of family medicine experience (with minor dermatology). So I can identify and treat things like dermatitis, tinea, warts, etc. I also have experience with cryo, punch biopsies, and skin biopsies. Also, because I am new to dermatology and they are willing to train me, she brought up a 3 to 5 year contract. Honestly, I would be okay with 3 (especially since I just got out of the military....so I'm used to contracts lol....and would like some stability after some bad experiences in the civilian world). So where do you guys think I should start with salary? (I have looked at the salary report, but I would just like some opinions from other PAs as well) And what's your view on the length of the contract? Also, this is a PA-owned practice. Is that a good thing or a bad thing (or doesn't matter) in your experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCPAC Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 What state is the job in? Any talk of productivity incentives after you earn X amount for the practice? My good friend from pa school just took on a derm job- she's been in fam practice and plastics 1.5 yrs each (3yrs total out of school) and is making $60/HR and once she makes the practice $450k (typically by July or August of each year) she earns 30% of whatever she bills out. In addition she works 4 days a week (10hr days). Seems like a solid offer. Meanwhile I'm over here making way less in an ICU with way sicker patients. I'm definitely in the wrong field LOL Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted May 14, 2016 Author Share Posted May 14, 2016 What state is the job in? Any talk of productivity incentives after you earn X amount for the practice? My good friend from pa school just took on a derm job- she's been in fam practice and plastics 1.5 yrs each (3yrs total out of school) and is making $60/HR and once she makes the practice $450k (typically by July or August of each year) she earns 30% of whatever she bills out. In addition she works 4 days a week (10hr days). Seems like a solid offer. Meanwhile I'm over here making way less in an ICU with way sicker patients. I'm definitely in the wrong field LOL Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Arizona. And, no. No talk of incentives yet. That is definitely something that I can bring up at the interview though. Based on their ad, I think it's highly unlikely that I'll be starting at anywhere near $60/HR. Probably closer to $45/HR if anything. I have no idea the amount of days I would be working nor do I know anything about the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeTheBabe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Is it just me or are these minimums really high? You have to bring in 450K to start getting a bonus. 60 bucks an hour is roughly 120K annually. I'm in ortho as a new grad making 95K salary, but I get 10% of accounts receivable. If I pulled in 450K I'd get another 45K as a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 Is it just me or are these minimums really high? You have to bring in 450K to start getting a bonus. 60 bucks an hour is roughly 120K annually. I'm in ortho as a new grad making 95K salary, but I get 10% of accounts receivable. If I pulled in 450K I'd get another 45K as a bonus. I spoke with one of my friends from PA school that is in derm. She told me that 80-100k to start out is a fair salary (without bonus). I also joined SDPA and have been looking at the forums (which is not the best resource, to be honest). This seems pretty standard. I'm moving to a fairly low COL area. So my plan is to ask for the median as per AAPA salary report (which is about 82k) plus 10-20% in collections after 300k. I will let you know what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCPAC Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Yes it seems crazy but she pulled in over $250k as a pa last year. That's more than any general pediatrician, hospitalist, fam practice MDs. I seriously chose the wrong practice area!!! I actually run codes....by myself without an attending present and don't make anywhere close to that!!! [emoji58] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Yes it seems crazy but she pulled in over $250k as a pa last year. That's more than any general pediatrician, hospitalist, fam practice MDs. I seriously chose the wrong practice area!!! I actually run codes....by myself without an attending present and don't make anywhere close to that!!! [emoji58] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Really? Just $250k? I brought in ~$280k last year in family medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewconvert Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Really? Just $250k? I brought in ~$280k last year in family medicine. I think he means she was paid over $250k last year, not that she produced $250k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 It would have to be the amount they made, unless they worked some crazy overtime, because if they only brought in $250k then they wouldn't receive any bonus, and $60/hr for 40 hours isn't close to $250k per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCPAC Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 No no she was paid $250k!! Only worked 40hrs a week, the rest was bonus pay for all that she billed procedure wise Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 No no she was paid $250k!! Only worked 40hrs a week, the rest was bonus pay for all that she billed procedure wise Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Misinterpretation on my part. Yes, I've heard stories like this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JtheWorker Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Most bonuses are a % of collections, not what is billed out, FYI. I've never heard of one that isn't like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsPA2u Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 A New Grad derm offer I received in Northern VA: (previous HCE: SA in Derm x 5 years) Term: 3 years. Training x 6 months. Expectation 20-25 pts a day thereafter Hours: M-F 9am-5pm, "Occasional Saturdays" 8am-12pm Base: 80k Bonus: Shall be compensated at a rate equal to 15% of collections above 150K/year Mal-practice: Covered w/o tail Vacation: 1 week vacation for every 6 months employed with practice Non-compete: 15miles x 2 years ALL other benefits: ambiguous, contract says things like: Sick leave: "as per terms and provisions of the employee manual" (which I was told hasn't been updated in 25 years) Personal time: no explicit mention besides, "personal time may not be accumulated from one year to the next" Holidays: no explicit mention CME allowance/educational leave: no explicit mention Health coverage: "in accordance with the policies of the medical practice" Holidays: No explicit mention Professional memberships/licensing/etc: will pay "certain" basic memberships to include state and county medical society dues and hospital medical staff dues, state license, "certain" federal and state narcotic licenses and such other benefits as may be established, adopted, and modified from "time to time" by the medical practice for other PAs. -- During the actual interview, I spoke with the current PA about most of the above and she pretty much said...everything is covered and she's not had any issues since she's worked there (2.5 years as new grad, no derm experience straight out of PA school). Although I believed her, I am finding it difficult for the practice to secure these things in writing. Also, since the employee manual is so outdated I have nothing else to reference. Therefore, I am pretty much back on the hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 A New Grad derm offer I received in Northern VA: (previous HCE: SA in Derm x 5 years) Term: 3 years. Training x 6 months. Expectation 20-25 pts a day thereafter Hours: M-F 9am-5pm, "Occasional Saturdays" 8am-12pm Base: 80k Bonus: Shall be compensated at a rate equal to 15% of collections above 150K/year Mal-practice: Covered w/o tail Vacation: 1 week vacation for every 6 months employed with practice Non-compete: 15miles x 2 years ALL other benefits: ambiguous, contract says things like: Sick leave: "as per terms and provisions of the employee manual" (which I was told hasn't been updated in 25 years) Personal time: no explicit mention besides, "personal time may not be accumulated from one year to the next" Holidays: no explicit mention CME allowance/educational leave: no explicit mention Health coverage: "in accordance with the policies of the medical practice" Holidays: No explicit mention Professional memberships/licensing/etc: will pay "certain" basic memberships to include state and county medical society dues and hospital medical staff dues, state license, "certain" federal and state narcotic licenses and such other benefits as may be established, adopted, and modified from "time to time" by the medical practice for other PAs. -- During the actual interview, I spoke with the current PA about most of the above and she pretty much said...everything is covered and she's not had any issues since she's worked there (2.5 years as new grad, no derm experience straight out of PA school). Although I believed her, I am finding it difficult for the practice to secure these things in writing. Also, since the employee manual is so outdated I have nothing else to reference. Therefore, I am pretty much back on the hunt Two weeks off a year then to start? Hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 A New Grad derm offer I received in Northern VA: (previous HCE: SA in Derm x 5 years) Term: 3 years. Training x 6 months. Expectation 20-25 pts a day thereafter Hours: M-F 9am-5pm, "Occasional Saturdays" 8am-12pm Base: 80k Bonus: Shall be compensated at a rate equal to 15% of collections above 150K/year Mal-practice: Covered w/o tail Vacation: 1 week vacation for every 6 months employed with practice Non-compete: 15miles x 2 years ALL other benefits: ambiguous, contract says things like: Sick leave: "as per terms and provisions of the employee manual" (which I was told hasn't been updated in 25 years) Personal time: no explicit mention besides, "personal time may not be accumulated from one year to the next" Holidays: no explicit mention CME allowance/educational leave: no explicit mention Health coverage: "in accordance with the policies of the medical practice" Holidays: No explicit mention Professional memberships/licensing/etc: will pay "certain" basic memberships to include state and county medical society dues and hospital medical staff dues, state license, "certain" federal and state narcotic licenses and such other benefits as may be established, adopted, and modified from "time to time" by the medical practice for other PAs. -- During the actual interview, I spoke with the current PA about most of the above and she pretty much said...everything is covered and she's not had any issues since she's worked there (2.5 years as new grad, no derm experience straight out of PA school). Although I believed her, I am finding it difficult for the practice to secure these things in writing. Also, since the employee manual is so outdated I have nothing else to reference. Therefore, I am pretty much back on the hunt I would take this. It's VERY difficult to get into derm and get a legitimate offer (I just interviewed with 2 different derm practices that were basically trying to scam me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsPA2u Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I would take this. It's VERY difficult to get into derm and get a legitimate offer (I just interviewed with 2 different derm practices that were basically trying to scam me). Thanks for the response. Are you a new grad or just transitioning into Derm? So, you think this is a "legitimate" offer? I realize Derm may be a difficult position to obtain. I guess I'm hesitant because this (contracts and negotiations) is all new to me and I want things to be clear so that I am aware of what to expect, ESP for the next 3 years of my life. If the office was willing to AT THE VERY LEAST update their office manual, I could've maybe made a more informed decision. But at this point, it's a gamble. Besides, the lawyer I hired wasn't very impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewconvert Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I would consider it if I were wanting to get into derm and I could get them to either dump the 3 year contract length or write in definitive answers to the outstanding stuff including increasing base pay. You are worth more after two years than a new grad, you should be getting paid more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsPA2u Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I would consider it if I were wanting to get into derm and I could get them to either dump the 3 year contract length or write in definitive answers to the outstanding stuff including increasing base pay. You are worth more after two years than a new grad, you should be getting paid more I sent my questions via email to the practice administrator who stated that the current PA who know the answers better than she would. When I emailed the same answers to the PA, I received no response. This was almost a week ago. Even during the interview I was told a lot of things aren't "formally" written down anywhere. They sort of just approve things as they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Thanks for the response. Are you a new grad or just transitioning into Derm? So, you think this is a "legitimate" offer? I realize Derm may be a difficult position to obtain. I guess I'm hesitant because this (contracts and negotiations) is all new to me and I want things to be clear so that I am aware of what to expect, ESP for the next 3 years of my life. If the office was willing to AT THE VERY LEAST update their office manual, I could've maybe made a more informed decision. But at this point, it's a gamble. Besides, the lawyer I hired wasn't very impressed. DISCLAIMER: I'm recently out of the military and my negotiation skills aren't very good. I think it's legitimate and it is very difficult to get into derm. I was advised by a long-term derm PA before my interview (in which I ended up receiving such a bad offer that this discussion became a moot point anyway). Basically, base pay between $80k and $100k is fair. The bonus structure should be on total collections though and should be closer to 30% (ie: $80k or 30% collections, whichever is greater). Personally, I don't care as much about CME as others seem to on this forum. So that part wouldn't really bother me. PTO: Sounds like you will only be getting 2 weeks (and this includes holidays, sick, and personal time). This is not good, but I've seen worse. It depends on how badly you want derm. Health Coverage: I would ask for more information on this. I don't know your current situation, but if you have health problems or a family, you'll want good coverage. It sounds like you may not get that kind of coverage on this job. Overall, I agree with the lawyer that this is not impressive at all. However, it is difficult to get any legitimate offer in derm. So it depends on how much you want it. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 I sent my questions via email to the practice administrator who stated that the current PA who know the answers better than she would. When I emailed the same answers to the PA, I received no response. This was almost a week ago. Even during the interview I was told a lot of things aren't "formally" written down anywhere. They sort of just approve things as they see fit. This sounds sketchy. Did you ever talk to that PA? The fact that they aren't answering you is not a good sign. However, many PAs will blatantly lie anyway (to protect their own jobs). Did they allow you to shadow when you interviewed? What does the office look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsPA2u Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 DISCLAIMER: I'm recently out of the military and my negotiation skills aren't very good. I think it's legitimate and it is very difficult to get into derm. I was advised by a long-term derm PA before my interview (in which I ended up receiving such a bad offer that this discussion became a moot point anyway). Basically, base pay between $80k and $100k is fair. The bonus structure should be on total collections though and should be closer to 30% (ie: $80k or 30% collections, whichever is greater). Personally, I don't care as much about CME as others seem to on this forum. So that part wouldn't really bother me. PTO: Sounds like you will only be getting 2 weeks (and this includes holidays, sick, and personal time). This is not good, but I've seen worse. It depends on how badly you want derm. Health Coverage: I would ask for more information on this. I don't know your current situation, but if you have health problems or a family, you'll want good coverage. It sounds like you may not get that kind of coverage on this job. Overall, I agree with the lawyer that this is not impressive at all. However, it is difficult to get any legitimate offer in derm. So it depends on how much you want it. Just my 2 cents. Your insight in VERY MUCH appreciated!!! CME HEALTH COVERAGE PTO SALARY AND BONUS MALPRACTICE coverage are ALL important to me...to some degree and I actually don't even mind the idea of a 3 year term. If the office was at all willing to work with me to at least gain clarity, I would've jumped to the opportunity. But the lack thereof has me leery. I wasn't offered the option of shadowing (but I also didn't ask). The only time I spoke with the PA on staff was during the interview and I got the impression that essentially most (if not all) "things" we're covered. My issue is...those "things" weren't specified in the contract I was sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Your insight in VERY MUCH appreciated!!! CME HEALTH COVERAGE PTO SALARY AND BONUS MALPRACTICE coverage are ALL important to me...to some degree and I actually don't even mind the idea of a 3 year term. If the office was at all willing to work with me to at least gain clarity, I would've jumped to the opportunity. But the lack thereof has me leery. I wasn't offered the option of shadowing (but I also didn't ask). The only time I spoke with the PA on staff was during the interview and I got the impression that essentially most (if not all) "things" we're covered. My issue is...those "things" weren't specified in the contract I was sent. The 3 year contract actually isn't bad at all. In derm, it makes sense. Even the noncompete clause wouldn't concern me. Obviously, they are training you in a very lucrative field and they don't want you to take everything you learn and make someone else profitable. But the rest sounds shady. If your gut tells you that something is wrong, it probably is. I made some mistakes in employment decisions because I didn't follow my gut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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