tmac12 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Can someone give me a break down of PA and MD salary over a 10 or 20 year period taking into consideration the time, debt, interest, and repaying that debt off? Of course there is a lot of variability, but I just want to get a very general idea, whether there is a significant difference. My cousin is a DO and has 400k of debt and makes 250k as a physician after finding a better paying job, so I am just amazed by the amount of debt she has. Seems too much when you add interest, food, housing, cars, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted March 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2016 A study has been done one this. It's more lucrative to be an MD, except for females who take time off for family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac12 Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 do you have the link of the study? Can't seem to find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess that physicians win in the end.. But the quicker start and lessened debt makes it a catch-up game for them that ends up being somewhere between age 36-early 40s assuming one started each school after undergrad. So combining that with the chance to start a life sooner (spouse, buy a home, kids, etc..) I still feel like it's a win to go PA financially. In life, I would definitely prefer to have my money to enjoy life between 25-40 versus 40+. The overall financial gain for the physician really isn't always that much higher depending on the speciality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 It doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess that physicians win in the end.. But the quicker start and lessened debt makes it a catch-up game for them that ends up being somewhere between age 36-early 40s assuming one started each school after undergrad. So combining that with the chance to start a life sooner (spouse, buy a home, kids, etc..) I still feel like it's a win to go PA financially. In life, I would definitely prefer to have my money to enjoy life between 25-40 versus 40+. The overall financial gain for the physician really isn't always that much higher depending on the speciality. Agreed. PA all the way. A specialist PA can make as much or more than a primary care physician. And if you go to medical school, it is more difficult to pick your specialty than if you go to PA school due to the residency restrictions (if you get bad grades in medical school, you're likely going to do primary care for the rest of your life....and, these days, you may not get a residency at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac12 Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 yeah 25-40 making 6 figs with no student debt sounds good to me. My cousin making 250k still with 400k in debt at the age of 33 or 34 now shes not exactly living the good life yet, kinda sucks. Keep the posts coming, love to hear other people's opinions. I think with good money management, pay off all your debts invest in roth ira and 401k, in stocks etc.. since you will have a good head start. Also do PAs really have the better work and life balance or is that all hype? The clinic I work at PA work same hours as the docs, which isn't bad, but isn't good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 yeah 25-40 making 6 figs with no student debt sounds good to me. My cousin making 250k still with 400k in debt at the age of 33 or 34 now shes not exactly living the good life yet, kinda sucks. Keep the posts coming, love to hear other people's opinions. I think with good money management, pay off all your debts invest in roth ira and 401k, in stocks etc.. since you will have a good head start. Also do PAs really have the better work and life balance or is that all hype? The clinic I work at PA work same hours as the docs, which isn't bad, but isn't good either. Your observations are correct. You have pretty much the same odds of having work/life balance than physicians. As far as the finances, you are correct. Just about every physician that I know under 40 (and some older) has a ton of debt. The only exceptions to this are my military colleagues. One of my good friends left the military at age 34 with no debt and significant money in the bank (enough to possess 3 houses by the end of her military career). At the same time, I separated from the military at age 28 with no debt and significant savings. I'm not a fan of traditional investing so I don't bother with IRA or stocks. I haven't had the opportunity to have a 401k, but I'll check that out once I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameWasUsed Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 http://www.thepalife.com/pa-versus-md-money/ so this site did calculations for PA vs MD vs Teacher. I don't think its that accurate because they used a salary of a primary care physician for the comparison instead of a higher paying specialty such as radiology or surgery. Regardless i think its still a good baseline. The simple answer would be a physician will make more over their lifetime. However, just because you become a PA doesn't mean you can't venture into other industries such as real estate, stock marketing, and investing. I think one misconception you have is that PA don't have debt. Some PA schools are just as expensive as medical schools, the only perk is that PA school is shorter so you pay less overall. I'll be taking out a loan of probably $150,000 for my program this May =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 http://www.thepalife.com/pa-versus-md-money/ so this site did calculations for PA vs MD vs Teacher. I don't think its that accurate because they used a salary of a primary care physician for the comparison instead of a higher paying specialty such as radiology or surgery. Regardless i think its still a good baseline. The simple answer would be a physician will make more over their lifetime. However, just because you become a PA doesn't mean you can't venture into other industries such as real estate, stock marketing, and investing. I think one misconception you have is that PA don't have debt. Some PA schools are just as expensive as medical schools, the only perk is that PA school is shorter so you pay less overall. I'll be taking out a loan of probably $150,000 for my program this May =/ Well being primary care makes it most accurate, considering that would be the baseline; but yes it shows the catch-up game well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyn Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Would one say...A Specialist PA of any kind....or is it only certain kinds that could make as much a Primary Care Doc in the end? Also, how many years on an average does it take a Specialist PA to come upto par (salary-wise) with a Primary Care Doc? (Can the AAPA Report be fully relied upon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2016 debt is manageable as a doc with some common sense. an er doc buddy of mine did this: finished residency, moved to new town. kept living in cheap apt and driving old car for 2 years. lived well, but no major purchases. made 250k/yr, lived off maybe 50-60. paid off ALL student loan debt from undergrad and medschool in 2 years. now lives like a king and takes off 3 months/yr to go surfing and when he does work does only 140 hrs/month or so. would trade with him in a heartbeat. he was debt free and living the high life at 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac12 Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 that sounds awesome. I would like to achieve the same lifestyle with a PA degree. I don't need to make 250 k per year, I guess it is all the matter of what you can live with. The idea of being debt free if I work hard and making 6 figures in my mid to late 20s with no debt sounds good to me. Plus invest in other things and venture out into other businesses. Med school is a lot of sacrifice. One of my coworkers who is a PA works 2 or 3 times a week and lives really comfortably and has a pretty decent income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 14, 2016 making money as a pa isn't the hard part, finding job satisfaction and respect/autonomy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I did an analysis when I first was deciding between PA or physician. The result was it would take 14 years for the debt of Med School and income to break even with the debt and salary of PA school. This takes in account 4 years of med school + 3 years residency (allowing moonlighting after internship year has been completed), and total estimated school debt. The PA school I modeled against was at $80k program cost with a 26 month masters PA option with an average salary based on the California job market. Cost of living was set at a constant rate not accounting for changes in lifestyle such as marriage or children and etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 debt is manageable as a doc with some common sense. an er doc buddy of mine did this: finished residency, moved to new town. kept living in cheap apt and driving old car for 2 years. lived well, but no major purchases. made 250k/yr, lived off maybe 50-60. paid off ALL student loan debt from undergrad and medschool in 2 years. now lives like a king and takes off 3 months/yr to go surfing and when he does work does only 140 hrs/month or so. would trade with him in a heartbeat. he was debt free and living the high life at 33. Cheap apt... old car.. after all that med school work? No thanks... Still adds to the point that, unless living like a college kid, it takes them time to live in riches. I'm currently in PA school. I'll graduate next year at 25 years old and make great money to start a life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolute Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 debt is manageable as a doc with some common sense. an er doc buddy of mine did this: finished residency, moved to new town. kept living in cheap apt and driving old car for 2 years. lived well, but no major purchases. made 250k/yr, lived off maybe 50-60. paid off ALL student loan debt from undergrad and medschool in 2 years. now lives like a king and takes off 3 months/yr to go surfing and when he does work does only 140 hrs/month or so. would trade with him in a heartbeat. he was debt free and living the high life at 33. I would argue this is the acceptation to the rule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACrankset Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 One would argue that if you are contemplating either profession to have a lucrative lifestyle, you are doing it for the reasons. I am here because of the medicine and to help people, that is the difference between a great clinician and a mediocre one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac12 Posted March 14, 2016 Author Share Posted March 14, 2016 how accurate is this? deceptive salary of drs. http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/ My lifestyle choice is that 1) I want a good work to life balance 2) I don't want to be in school for a large portion of my life 3) Like the previous poster says making 6 figures at 25-40 years old where I can enjoy 4) I work to live I don't live to work 5) no debt in my 30s making 6 figures and have extra money to start other projects has always been my goal in life Tell me if I am wrong, but there was a study where after you make 80k basically cover your essentials that there was not much of a change in happiness whether you made 80k or 200k. I don't know how true this is. http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-75000-a-year/ whats your opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameWasUsed Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 how accurate is this? deceptive salary of drs. http://www.bestmedicaldegrees.com/salary-of-doctors/ My lifestyle choice is that 1) I want a good work to life balance 2) I don't want to be in school for a large portion of my life 3) Like the previous poster says making 6 figures at 25-40 years old where I can enjoy 4) I work to live I don't live to work 5) no debt in my 30s making 6 figures and have extra money to start other projects has always been my goal in life Tell me if I am wrong, but there was a study where after you make 80k basically cover your essentials that there was not much of a change in happiness whether you made 80k or 200k. I don't know how true this is. http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/the-perfect-salary-for-happiness-75000-a-year/ whats your opinions? I think the link you and I posted are pretty accurate. The study about making more than 80k won't make you happier seems accurate to me. You know you don't have to be a PA to make good money during your 20s. People in engineering, computer science, finance, and accountant make good money during their 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoundsfieldHero Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 If you're trying to figure out why you'd rather be a PA versus MD based on personal finances, you should probably look at another profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 If you're trying to figure out why you'd rather be a PA versus MD based on personal finances, you should probably look at another profession. Not at all.... Everyone should consider personal finances regardless of their career field. If I've grown up living under a single parent on disability for 18 years, followed by my attending of undergrad entirely on loans; I probably should consider my personal finances before taking out another 200-300k for med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoundsfieldHero Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Not at all.... Everyone should consider personal finances regardless of their career field. If I've grown up living under a single parent on disability for 18 years, followed by my attending of undergrad entirely on loans; I probably should consider my personal finances before taking out another 200-300k for med school. Many before you took out loans for their undergrad as well as leaving a good paying job to pursue a new career in medicine. So what? You missed my point. Either you really want to be a health care provider, and will pursue the career that fits your interest in medicine the best, or you just want a good paying job. If you're basing your decision between becoming an MD or PA on finances, the truth is that becoming a provider is not important enough to you to outweigh the sacrifices that you will have to make to follow the career path that suits you best as a person. What would you do if money wasn't a factor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Many before you took out loans for their undergrad as well as leaving a good paying job to pursue a new career in medicine. So what? You missed my point. Either you really want to be a health care provider, and will pursue the career that fits your interest in medicine the best, or you just want a good paying job. If you're basing your decision between becoming an MD or PA on finances, the truth is that becoming a provider is not important enough to you to outweigh the sacrifices that you will have to make to follow the career path that suits you best as a person. What would you do if money wasn't a factor? And you're missing my point... You're talking as though I'm a high-school student looking for a quick buck. " the truth is that becoming a provider is not important enough to you to outweigh the sacrifices that you will have to make to follow the career path that suits you best as a person" So becoming a PA isn't a provider position to you then? I have chosen PA, both because I like the profession and financial aspect. I don't care what others have done.. I, myself, have chosen what I wanted to choose; all I have done is talk aloud on this forum post about my reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidccs Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I know a NP that makes 90k-100k per year and she lives paycheck to paycheck, She also only has 14k in loans from her NP program, and she is thinking about going back to school because she doesn't truly enjoy what she does. I make a fourth of what she makes, and get to put money away every pay check, I dont live life lavishly but I've done my fair share of traveling, I drive a newer car, and get to have a good time with my friends, while my only debt is my car payment (which is half of what she pays for an older, less comfortable car) because I pay my credit cards off every month. She makes way more than me, how is it that I have a better quality of life? How "wealthy" are you depends on how good your money management skills are, you can make 100k, but if ur spending 110k ur still poor, imho. Going into a career for the wrong reason WILL come back to bite you, I completely agree with looking at the finances, but look past them to figure out what you are really getting yourself into. The vast majority of jobs for NP and PAs are 5 days a week, not everybody will land the coveted 12 shifts a month with no call job, are you willing to stick it for however long after school till you find that dream job? My friend has been at her job for 4 month, and she absolutely HATES her schedule (5 days a week). I also knew a doctor that made over 250k, and absolutely hated his life. He ended up getting fired from the coveted 12 shifts a month with no call. MDs have the highest rate of suicide, among them anesthesiologist top them all, they are making loads of money, why the suicides? Same with nurses, many move onto NP in hopes that itll improve their quality of life, and when it doesn't there is no where else to turn to. MD suicide rates http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410643_2 MD changing careers http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/827680 I wouldn't be surprised if things are the same for other professionals that work in the healthcare field, burn-out is rampant, and for good reason, the majority of the time working with people flat-out sucks. Will those 1-2 times per week that you actually helped someone be enough to offset the loads of self-righteous, entitled, physically and mentally nasty patients that you will see day-in and day-out? I hope, for your sanity, that you know what you are getting yourself into... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoundsfieldHero Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I know a NP that makes 90k-100k per year and she lives paycheck to paycheck, She also only has 14k in loans from her NP program, and she is thinking about going back to school because she doesn't truly enjoy what she does. I make a fourth of what she makes, and get to put money away every pay check, I dont live life lavishly but I've done my fair share of traveling, I drive a newer car, and get to have a good time with my friends, while my only debt is my car payment (which is half of what she pays for an older, less comfortable car) because I pay my credit cards off every month. She makes way more than me, how is it that I have a better quality of life? How "wealthy" are you depends on how good your money management skills are, you can make 100k, but if ur spending 110k ur still poor, imho. Going into a career for the wrong reason WILL come back to bite you, I completely agree with looking at the finances, but look past them to figure out what you are really getting yourself into. The vast majority of jobs for NP and PAs are 5 days a week, not everybody will land the coveted 12 shifts a month with no call job, are you willing to stick it for however long after school till you find that dream job? My friend has been at her job for 4 month, and she absolutely HATES her schedule (5 days a week). I also knew a doctor that made over 250k, and absolutely hated his life. He ended up getting fired from the coveted 12 shifts a month with no call. MDs have the highest rate of suicide, among them anesthesiologist top them all, they are making loads of money, why the suicides? Same with nurses, many move onto NP in hopes that itll improve their quality of life, and when it doesn't there is no where else to turn to. MD suicide rates http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/410643_2 MD changing careers http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/827680 I wouldn't be surprised if things are the same for other professionals that work in the healthcare field, burn-out is rampant, and for good reason, the majority of the time working with people flat-out sucks. Will those 1-2 times per week that you actually helped someone be enough to offset the loads of self-righteous, entitled, physically and mentally nasty patients that you will see day-in and day-out? I hope, for your sanity, that you know what you are getting yourself into... I agree 100% Good pay wont make a bit of difference if you are miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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