Cubed3 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Hey all, I am a nurse with a few years of experience, and I have recently been emailing some admissions officers from various schools in Texas. One of them seemed to indicate in his email that it is becoming quite unusual for PA applicants to have been out of college for a few years, i.e. most of the recent PA students do not have backgrounds as EMT/RN/Physical therapy aid etc and are fresh out of school. Is it really all that unusual for an RN to become a PA, rather than a CRNA or NP? I have my reasons for wanting to pursue the PA profession including better training and more in-patient type jobs available (as well as a different role in the military between PAs and NPs), but should I really consider just becoming an NP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I attend UW/Medex. The school has four campuses for their PA program. Overall age for their program this year is 36. You have to have a couple of years of direct patient care prior to applying, most of us have much more than that. I have three RN's in my classroom and I know there are at least a few more at the other campuses. For me, the choice was extremely easy to go PA versus RN but that is derived from my background in the military and then as a paramedic. The PA is just a much better fit personally. If you are happy with nursing and want to do advanced nursing care as a NP, (their words, not mine), then I don't see much reason to cross over. If you want to train under a medical model as an extension of a physician, there are PLENTY of PA programs who would love to have a nurse as a student. Your experience is an asset. Utilize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I agree the modern PA applicant is more GPA than HCE oriented. But I still think many nurses go on to PA... not unusual at all, hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToppDog Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 You could become both PA & NP. I think there is at least one program in CA that still does this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted December 24, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 24, 2011 You could become both PA & NP. I think there is at least one program in CA that still does this. uc Davis. Recruit pretty heavily from Cali though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradopa Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Hey all, I am a nurse with a few years of experience, and I have recently been emailing some admissions officers from various schools in Texas. One of them seemed to indicate in his email that it is becoming quite unusual for PA applicants to have been out of college for a few years, i.e. most of the recent PA students do not have backgrounds as EMT/RN/Physical therapy aid etc and are fresh out of school. Is it really all that unusual for an RN to become a PA, rather than a CRNA or NP? I have my reasons for wanting to pursue the PA profession including better training and more in-patient type jobs available (as well as a different role in the military between PAs and NPs), but should I really consider just becoming an NP? The rate has remained fairly constant for the last 10 years. Around 5% of PAs are nurses of some type. There are definitely programs out there that either discourage or don't give credit for medical experience. On the other hand the majority of the programs will welcome experience if it is part of a well rounded applicant. As far as NPs it much more common to go to NP or CRNA school. You have to be aware that there is a big difference between the number of nurses that go to NP school and the number that graduate or enter the NP workforce. Finally you should familarize yourself with the "DNP" situation and the current mess with NP certification right now before deciding which way to go. You are also correct that in the military there is a big difference in operational use of PAs including the fact that a PA cannot be deployed as a nurse while an NP can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 ... [brevity edit]... going to PA school means giving up 2 years of your RN income... [brevity edit]... Nope..!!! Not necessarily. There were 11 of us in my class that were RNs. 9 of them worked between full and part-time during the entire program. That's the beauty of having a RN license. You have FLEXIBILITY. Most worked 12 hr weekend shifts (Thurs/Fri/Sat = 36hrs=full time at most hospitals). Some worked NOCs (nights) and studied while their patients slept. A few others were nursing managers so had flexibility and light patient loads so could study PRN. One was a on-call dialysis/infusion nurse ($$$) so could work weekends and sat and studied for extended periods since the courses of treatment are typically 4+hrs for each patient. Personally... I didn't work at all during my program. Simply because I didn't want to. Also... as David alluded to... From my experience, MOST NP school grads ARE NOT working as NPs... few who enroll graduate and even fewer sit for and pass the tests/exams. If I had a dollar for every disgruntled RN "floor nurse" who had at one time attended a NP school... I'd be able to buy another Kindle Fire, cash, full price....:heheh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Nope..!!!Not necessarily. There were 11 of us in my class that were RNs. 9 of them worked between full and part-time during the entire program. That's the beauty of having a RN license. You have FLEXIBILITY. Most worked 12 hr weekend shifts (Thurs/Fri/Sat = 36hrs=full time at most hospitals). Some worked NOCs (nights) and studied while their patients slept. A few others were nursing managers so had flexibility and light patient loads so could study PRN. One was a on-call dialysis/infusion nurse ($$$) so could work weekends and sat and studied for extended periods since the courses of treatment are typically 4+hrs for each patient. Personally... I didn't work at all during my program. Simply because I didn't want to. Also... as David alluded to... From my experience, MOST NP school grads ARE NOT working as NPs... few who enroll graduate and even fewer sit for and pass the tests/exams. If I had a dollar for every disgruntled RN "floor nurse" who had at one time attended a NP school... I'd be able to buy another Kindle Fire, cash, full price....:heheh: True dat!!!I've met more than a few NP staff nurses along with some PA educated RNs, who couldn't make the jump from nursing to PA practice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 So they were able to handle clinical year while working full time? Even pull a night shift then go to class in the day? I'm not doubting it, it's just everyone in pa school talks about the near total immersion in their studies.... [brevity edit]... Yes... Wasn't easy, or common and SUCKED...!!! But I've found that people can do ANYTHING uncomfortable and/or endure most hardships as long as they have a start and stop date. Unfortunately, some folks didn't/don't have the option of moving out of state, or luxury of quitting their jobs to follow their dreams of PAdom. Since MOST PA students at that time were adults with families... we all had children, mortgages, and other stuff that had to be maintained for the duration of our pursuit of continuing education. Yes... they especially liked the night shifts the nights before a test. Our exams were Monday and Fridays. Some would study all night then go straight to class and test... then basically "nod-out" in the back of the classroom through the rest of the lectures that day. When you say that "everyone in pa school talks about the near total immersion in their studies"... are you refering to folks who already had a firm grasp on patient care due to EXTENSIVE previous direct patient care in a licensed/registered position/role with responsibility in healthcare experience... or people who are learning "medical terminology," and how to use a thermometer and/or stethescope to take a B/P for the first time...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted December 25, 2011 Administrator Share Posted December 25, 2011 I know a paramedic who completed paramedic school WHILE working FT as a FF/EMT-B. He wouldn't recommend it. I worked as a volunteer FF/EMT-B in my didactic year, and in my clinical year when timing allowed, but clinical days are a lot longer than didactic lecture days, and it is hard to make 7PM drills. I also have worked as an EMS instructor, teaching EMT-B and CPR during my didactic year. Again, clinical year really constrains your time. I could not imagine working 12+ hours EVERY weekend through didactic year, but I'm not as driven as some other people. I really, really like my sleep: doesn't have to be all at once, but I prefer to catch up on weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 25, 2011 I did a part time 3 yr program and worked 24-30 hrs/week yr 1 and 2( while doing only 3 classes at a time instead of the nl 6). 3rd yr was the same as the regular 2nd yr for the full time folks and I just worked an occasional shift or concert standby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsquirrel Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I worked full time (48 hours) as an EMT while I was in paramedic school (16 hours didactic and 12 hours clinical/week). It wasn't too bad. I'm starting PA school in May and I hope to work per diem as a paramedic for at least the didactic year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 26, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 26, 2011 I worked full time (48 hours) as an EMT while I was in paramedic school (16 hours didactic and 12 hours clinical/week). It wasn't too bad. I'm starting PA school in May and I hope to work per diem as a paramedic for at least the didactic year. I worked full time(+) during the classroom and hospital portions of medic school. during the field internship I didn't work a single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtney.luoma Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Well, I think this thread got a bit off topic but I thought I would comment. I am going to be an BSN-RN in May and have already been accepted to a PA program in Texas (starts this summer). Honestly, ever since I have been accepted, everyone has asked me "why?". Why would someone go through a nursing school and not continue on to NP school? I see many pros and cons of both avenues, but I will tell you that everyone brings up, "You can own your own practice with an NP." And many states are already allowing NP's to practice independently. Also, if you are already a nurse, NP school is dramatically less expensive, and you can work while going to grad school. These are the different aspects I am also taking into consideration in determining if I will attend an NP program vs the PA program. I think the biggest advantage to being a PA over an NP is the ability to first assist without a separate certificate (but surgery is not my thing.) Have you been contemplating the same things? PS How about we stop talking about these throngs of disgruntled nurses who failed NP school? That's ridiculous. I've been working with nurses for years and contrary to your beliefs, nursing is an amazing profession on it's own, and not every nurse wants to be an NP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier1 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 I contemplated the same thing before applying this year and only applied to PA schools. I chose PA mainly due to the more science based curriculum and the ability to change specialties. If I had it to do over again I would have also applied to OSU's grad entry NP program. The PA schools don't seem to care about my non-traditional background and want to focus on my grades from 20 years ago just as much as my current 4.0 in my prereq's. Aside from that I think the nursing background gives more options. You can be a nurse practitioner, CNS, CRNA, informatics, etc... I am also applying to an accelerated BSN program that would start in the fall. I still have 4 outstanding apps (3 rejections so far) and if I get in to the local PA program I will enroll but I have pretty much decided I am not reapplying next year. I would then go the BSN route and work while going for my NP or even possibly work for a few years and go the CRNA route. At least in my case, the BSN route would be significantly less expensive since I could get my NP paid for by the hospital I would be working for. The PA route would mean well over $100k in loans which at the age of 42 I'm not looking forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier1 Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 ^you weren't talking to me, but what is contributing to you wanting to go to PA school vs NP? For me, I don't necessarily want to own my own practice or operate independently, but I hear that a lot too. If anything, I'd prefer to have the opportunity to work as an employee of a hospital or government entity. I don't know where you are located but here in central Ohio the hospitals hire many more NP's than PA's. I think it has alot to do with the more favorable NP laws and local NP programs. A good resource is the Cleveland Clinic website. They currently have about 80 open PA and NP positions open and you could get an idea of what the different responsibilities are. One interesting area for NP's was Medflight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 27, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 27, 2011 I don't know where you are located but here in central Ohio the hospitals hire many more NP's than PA's. . FWIW ohio is among the WORST states in which to practice as a pa. that has a lot to do with it. other states which are pro-pa are just the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier1 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 FWIW ohio is among the WORST states in which to practice as a pa. that has a lot to do with it. other states which are pro-pa are just the opposite. That was true in the past but is no longer the case. Legally there is now little difference between what a PA can do vs. a NP. Now it comes down to the interpretation of "collaborating physician" vs. "supervising physician". NP's also have schedule 2 prescriptive authority but there is current legislation pending to give PA's the same. The reason I see more NP's here is because their are currently no PA programs in central Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 From what I've seen in PA school so far (1/2 of the didactic part), I could have continued to work my old 48 hour Sat-Sun shift as a FF/Medic and gone to school M-F. I was at stations that I could usually study. However, that would have meant no time for the woman I love, so weekends are with her instead of working. Essentially I had time for 2 of 3 things: school, relationship, work. The 2 most important won. My PA class has no RN's or LPN's, a number of certified athletic trainers, 1 nuclear medicine tech, 1 former blood bank tech, 1 massage therapist, 1 former military EMT, a grouchy old FF/medic (me), and a whole bunch of students < 25 who are very smart and have very little health care experience. This seemed to be the pattern in the schools I interviewed with. In SW Ohio vs. central Ohio, the NP's seem to be more in primary care, with PA's more common in the hospital working in the ER's and for specialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtney.luoma Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 ^you weren't talking to me, but what is contributing to you wanting to go to PA school vs NP? For me, I don't necessarily want to own my own practice or operate independently, but I hear that a lot too. If anything, I'd prefer to have the opportunity to work as an employee of a hospital or government entity. These are the pros and cons I have in comparing NP to PA. Pros of choosing PA school/PA profession: Stronger science emphasis in program No/few online classes Ability to first assist (although I don't want to do this) Strong team with a physician Do not have to specialize before beginning PA school Cons of choosing PA school/becoming a PA: More expensive education Possibility of 1.5 years away from husband while in clinical portion of program Not being able to work while in school (the not being able to gain experience while in school--money isn't an issue) Never being able to own a practice one day (I would only want to do this after years and years of experience) None to few opportunities to be an educator/professor PANRE exam No nursing acute care experience (bc I have been accepted to start this summer) Some redundancy from nursing school in PA curriculum Hell for 27 months Pros of choosing NP school/becoming an NP: Able to work and gain experience in critical care as a nurse a year before applying and while in NP school Numerous opportunities to teach nursing courses in undergrad programs Less expensive education (unless selecting a private school; then tuition is actually higher than PA) Clinical rotations in hometown (not required to have to possibly move away for 1.5 years) No recertification exam Full time program 17-18 months Part time program 24-28 months Cons of NP program/becoming an NP: Online didactic courses Possible requirement of DNP to be an NP in future (this was the major driving factor for me to start considering PA school) Having to choose a specialty before beginning an NP program Unknowns: Are PA's or NP's used more in the clinical setting (as hospitalists; rounding for physicians) Will the DNP requirement really pass? Or will this be determined by the state BON? Which profession is respected more by society and consumers? Which options will get me more opportunities in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medman2007 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Which profession is respected more by society and consumers? Which options will get me more opportunities in the future? respect: as alluded to many times here, this is dependent on region. In my part of the country, NPs and PAs are very well respected but hiring trends for PAs are different than for NPs - majority of PAs in surg subspecilaty, cardiology, derm, etc. However, one state North the NPs rule more opportunities: IMO really apples to oranges comparison. Many nurses/NPs always tout this when comparing to PA (I'm an RN as well) - nothing in healthcare compares to the scope of practice of RNs. As you noted earlier - a BSN can get you to many places - however, most of those places did not fulfill my personal clinical goals. Also, you can own your own business as a PA as well. Yes, how to get there is different vs NP based on state, but it can be done successfully. Good luck in whatever you decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 29, 2011 Moderator Share Posted December 29, 2011 That was true in the past but is no longer the case. Legally there is now little difference between what a PA can do vs. a NP. Now it comes down to the interpretation of "collaborating physician" vs. "supervising physician". NP's also have schedule 2 prescriptive authority but there is current legislation pending to give PA's the same. The reason I see more NP's here is because their are currently no PA programs in central Ohio. until they fix the rx thing it is still pa unfriendly as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 2, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 2, 2012 Cons of choosing PA school/becoming a PA: Never being able to own a practice one day (I would only want to do this after years and years of experience) None to few opportunities to be an educator/professor pa's can be practice owners. you just hire an md or 2 on your staff and assign them sp duties. I know several folks who do this. there are lots of pa faculty jobs out there. pa's can also teach basic sciences, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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