Navy questions

[Ingram]

Hey Guys, after reading flyingsquirrel's post I decided it was time to create a post with my own questions (rather than derailing his). To give a bit of background I'm a medical technologist (CLS) that has been accepted to PA school (start in July) and am trying to apply for the HSCP option. For the past six months or so I've been talking to my coworkers who are prior military, reading the topics on this forum, checking out the NAPA website, and chatting with my AF PA mentor but I haven't been able to get all of my questions answered. Pardon my ignorance, I appreciate any and all of you that take the time to reply!

 

I'll do it bullet style so it's easier to read.

 

1. For those that have been stationed with the marines/specwar, how did you like it? What did you like or dislike about it?

 

2. For those stationed on carriers did you enjoy it more or less than being in a regular clinic? Why?

 

3. I had read about the ortho and EM specialties (mostly on the NAPA site and through what I can find via the Navy recruiting site and google), has anyone done one of these residencies? How was your experience?

 

4. What is considered a utilization tour? In regards to residency trained PAs, are they slotted in GMO spots to help keep MDs in their specialty?

 

5. What does a typical clinic day/week look like schedule/patient wise?

 

6. Of those that start in the Navy (as a PA) how many go on to retire from it?

 

7. Do duties change as you are promoted in rank? I think I remember seeing an 0-5 PA on the NAPA site, but so far have not seen an 0-6. Is there a reason or understood thing behind this that I am not aware of (other than it is just that competitive to pin on Captain)? I'm not looking to shoot up in rank or anything just trying to understand the hierarchy.

 

Here are my stats and rough plan.

Age: 25

GPA Overall- 3.4

GPA Science- 3.41

GRE- 1250

Hands on Pt. Care- >7,000 hours

Shadowing- 2,500 hours (mostly MD)

 

From talking with my coworkers and the recruiters (regular recruiter, I still can't get in contact with the healthcare one for the last 3 weeks), they feel I have a pretty decent shot. Making a career in military medicine is something I have been eyeing for a while now (since NJROTC in high school). My current (read rough) plan is to get through PA school and try to go someplace overseas for my first station (not a clue if this is possible or likely or what). I like to travel and think while I'm still unattached/no kids it would be better to do this now. After the first 4 year commitment is up and depending on my feelings at the time I hope to apply for the EM residency. After that I suppose I will just have to see what has changed and where the military is at that time.

 

I appreciate any feed back or critiques you might offer! Thanks

Sincerely,

Brian

[HMtoPA]

Hi Brian, I'm in the Navy and currently going through PA school at IPAP. I'll try answering some of your questions.

 

1. For those that have been stationed with the marines/specwar, how did you like it? What did you like or dislike about it?

Been with the Marines as a corpsman, and I thought it was great. Sometimes it can be a drag - spent a lot of time in the field training, and of course deploying. And some of the guys are hardheads and you just need to accept that you're nowhere near the top of the hierarchy. But a lot of the same stuff that sucks (deployments) are also the most fun. It's all about perspective, and how you feel on a given day. Professionally it is awesome, as you will have a much wider scope of practice than your civilian counterparts, especially in an operational setting. Now as a PA, you will obviously be an officer and have a higher quality of life. I never encountered any Pas when I was with division, but my understanding is that they're more or less replacing GMO's.

 

2. For those stationed on carriers did you enjoy it more or less than being in a regular clinic? Why?

Never been on a carrier.

 

3. I had read about the ortho and EM specialties (mostly on the NAPA site and through what I can find via the Navy recruiting site and google), has anyone done one of these residencies? How was your experience?

Again, no experience here. I just know that the EM is 18 months in San Diego and Ortho is 12 months in Portsmouth (Virginia).

 

4. What is considered a utilization tour? In regards to residency trained PAs, are they slotted in GMO spots to help keep MDs in their specialty?

Utilization tour just means a follow-on tour to specific training during which that training is expected to be utilized. For example, after the EM residency you go with the Marines or into a SpecWar billet. After the ortho residency I believe you go into an ortho billet at a hospital, where you split your time between surgery and clinic (ortho surg clinic, not primary care). But you don't spend the rest of your career doing this - the ortho PA I knew has since gone with the Marines. For his next assignment, he may go back to an ortho billet, or may not - I'm not sure how that works.

5. What does a typical clinic day/week look like schedule/patient wise?

It really depends, but expect lots of sick call and some physicals and stuff. The advantage of being with the Marines is greater autonomy.

 

6. Of those that start in the Navy (as a PA) how many go on to retire from it?

Don't know if anyone is keeping numbers on this.

 

7. Do duties change as you are promoted in rank? I think I remember seeing an 0-5 PA on the NAPA site, but so far have not seen an 0-6. Is there a reason or understood thing behind this that I am not aware of (other than it is just that competitive to pin on Captain)? I'm not looking to shoot up in rank or anything just trying to understand the hierarchy.

There are no O-6 PA's and only a few O-5's. I think this is mostly a function of the fact that the vast majority of Navy PA's are "mustangs" (prior enlisted), and don't really have the ability to put in the kind of time required to make that kind of rank.

 

From talking with my coworkers and the recruiters (regular recruiter, I still can't get in contact with the healthcare one for the last 3 weeks), they feel I have a pretty decent shot.

Do make sure you speak with a medical recruiter ASAP. Funding for these programs tends to vary year-to-year, and even service-to-service it seems. You want to make sure the program you're interested in applying for is even a viable option before you pin your hopes on it. I'm pretty sure it still is, but you need to hear it from the horse's mouth.

 

My current (read rough) plan is to get through PA school and try to go someplace overseas for my first station (not a clue if this is possible or likely or what). I like to travel and think while I'm still unattached/no kids it would be better to do this now. After the first 4 year commitment is up and depending on my feelings at the time I hope to apply for the EM residency. After that I suppose I will just have to see what has changed and where the military is at that time.

I would expect that an overseas duty station would not be possible right away. Possibly you might be able to get something in Japan (seems to be harder to fill billets there for some reason), but unfortunately I don't think you'll be able to get a solid answer one way or another until after you've committed.

 

I appreciate any feed back or critiques you might offer! Thanks

Sincerely,

Brian

 

​Good luck!

[Ingram]

Awesome info, Thanks very much HMtoPA!

Brian

[Corpsman2PA]

I would ditto everything HM said. A lot of people have reservations about going green (being with Marines), but its an experience beyond itself. Like he said, as a corpsman it will be a little bit of a different animal than as a PA, but still a great place. You'll learn to make do with limited resources to maximize patient care. I had a friend just graduate IPAP last year, and was in afghanistan a few months later. He had already been deployed as a corpsman with FMF multiple times already, so its obvious he was aiming for that spot upon graduation. He'll be back in a few days. Its all what you make of it. Since you're curious about EM, you'll get great exposure to that with the Marines, bundled with a primary care/urgent care role. As for me, I did my 6 years, popped smoke as an HM2, and am living the nasty civilian life starting PA school next year. It'll always be in the back of my mind that i could join up again, but its time to serve my local populace now. The only downside I really saw, is that your main demographic is decently healthy, 18-38 years olds. You lose some exposure to the farther ends of the spectrum, unless you're deployed and run some clinics, etc.

Best of luck to you!

[d2305]

Being stationed on a carrier is arduous duty. You will spend months at sea without a break. Ever watch "Groundhog Day"?

[HMtoPA]

The only downside I really saw, is that your main demographic is decently healthy, 18-38 years olds. You lose some exposure to the farther ends of the spectrum, unless you're deployed and run some clinics, etc.

 

This is a very good point - if you're lucky you'll get exposure to dependent and retiree populations in a clinical setting while on shore duty. Some guys will complain about this, but it will definitely make you a better, more well-rounded clinician.

[Friction]

Out of curiosity, how hard are those EMPA spots to get? Are there a handful, a dozen, a couple hundred applicants? Are they more likely to be given to IPAP students, or would someone from a civi school have just a good of a chance?

 

Glad I read you post Ingram, I'd never heard of NAPA before. Their page has a lot of really good information. Good luck with everything.

[HMtoPA]

Like I said, there are only around two slots for each fellowship each year. The EM fellowship is brand new - I'm not even sure if the PA's selected have started training yet. As far as competitiveness, I've heard them solicit pretty hard for applicants for the Ortho fellowship in the past - my impression was that there were only slightly more applicant than seats each year (if that much). However, it also seems like you have to get the timing right, that is you have to have at least a couple of years as a "regular" PA and you have to be approaching your regular rotation date. Besides that, you also need command endorsement. I don't know if they look at transcripts or not, and I doubt your training (IPAP vs. civi school) comes into play at all, at least officially (I suppose depending upon the composition of the board, there might be personal bias one way or another).

[Ingram]

I appreciate everyone's input! Thank you for your time and service.

Sincerely,

Brian

[Just Steve]

I served on a carrier from 1996-1998 as a corpsman/surgical tech. The ship's surgeon and I became good friends and the experience was very rewarding. The ship was a vast medical "playground" if you will and I gained a lot of experience. The patient panel was a fairly healthy collection so as a result I was given a broad scope of practice. The experience I had on the carrier is one of the compelling things that brought me to PA school.

[Ingram]

That's a positive side I had not heard before, Just Steve. How was your (and the surgeon's if you happen to know) day to day life and do you think you would try for a shipboard billet if you went back in as PA?

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Brian

[bgdog]

For those stationed on carriers did you enjoy it more or less than being in a regular clinic? Why?

 

Stationed on the biggest, newest (at the time) nuclear carrier as a corpsman, ships company for 3 yrs. As this was a while ago some of this info may be outmoded. This was how it was when I was in. As Contraian would say YMMV.

 

There are approx. 5,000 men (women now, not then though,sadly) This includes 1500 or so air-wing, 3,500 ships company.

 

The boat (the term used) does not stay “out for months at a time without a break” but rather “deployed” for usually 6 months with ports of call every two weeks or so. The air-wing is only on the boat when deployed.

 

There are two tours, a “West-Pac and a Med-Cruise” West-Pac is for boats stationed on the west coast and includes stops in Hawaii, The Philippines, Thailand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia etc. This tour is one badass mofo and my fav. Everything is warm, beautiful and very inexpensive. Keep in mind that I was a very young “Male.” The denizens of these exotic locales cater to that demographic.

 

A Med-Cruise is for boats stationed on the east coast and includes stops in Spain, Italy, Greece and a couple others that I forget. For me, the Mediterranean was OK but didn’t compare to the West-Pac.

 

As there are so many guys, the medical workload is divided into “sick-calls” Which basically means that the clinic is open for non-emergent pt’s during those times. At sea, underway, typically there is at least two sick-calls, sometimes more.

 

The corpsman see most of the pt’s at sick-call, being as stated in other posts, that most everybody is young and healthy. The docs and PAs are for pt’s that are already screened by the corpsman and determined to be out of the expertise of said practitioner. There is usually one, maybe two docs, available for this. The air-wing has their own docs and corpsman, not always exclusive during sick-call though.

 

There are full medical facilities including ER, OR, 60 man Inpt ward, Lab, Pharmacy etc.

 

There are lots of emergent care, typically, lacs and fractures etc but sometimes severe enough to Medi-Vac off the boat to the nearest medical facility. An arm amputation by the catapult was one that I remember.

 

When the boat is not deployed, then it sits stateside at the dock and shipboard life is sorta 9-5, like a regular job. It’s a big bad-*** carrier so they don’t like to keep em tied up too long. When deployed, most sailors work 12 on, 12 off, with duty days every few days. When in port, only guys with the “Duty” stay on board. There are always guys that will accept money to take your duty.

 

As a corpsman, life was pretty relaxed, we worked the sick-calls till every last pt was seen, but after that, it was pretty casual except if you had the duty. Medical personnel are not allowed to be assigned any “extra” duty like guard or mess etc.

 

All in all, it was cool. You got to see a lot of exotic places, learn some really cool medical skills and make life long friends.

 

Good luck and hope this helps.

[rpackelly]

Captain Mike Smith, PA-C, USNR was promoted last year after a long deployment. He said there were a couple of others

[HMtoPA]

Don't know anything about the reserves, but there are definitely no O-6 PA's on AD and only a handful of O-5's.

[Just Steve]

That's a positive side I had not heard before, Just Steve. How was your (and the surgeon's if you happen to know) day to day life and do you think you would try for a shipboard billet if you went back in as PA?

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Brian

 

I think the two roles, one of a corpsman, one as a PA, are two pretty different experiences.

 

As a corpsman/surgical tech I had more opportunities than most. We were doing minor procedures/surgeries on a fairly regular basis. Lots of finger amputations, a few mini laps for things like twisted bowel, circumcisions, vasectomies, we put a few of our I&D's to sleep because the debridement was extensive. I know it's small peanuts to most surgical folks, but I got a ton of knife time with a strong emphasis in effective technique. That's not to mention the suturing clinic I was given almost daily. I left the ship and rotated to a stateside hospital and worked in a Plastic/Reconstructive clinic where my technique was found "favorable" by the chief of plastics...invaluable experience.

 

I also worked sick call, seeing my own patient panel. Yes, the more complex patients were seen by MDs and the one PA but as the "fast track disaster" thread has noted, there were those Zebras sneaking past the gate guard. We were beta testing digital X-ray, teleconferencing, and had a few other medical things going on a larger scale. I was the lead for the ship' medical response team where we took ALS gear in backpacks and responded throughout the ship. Keep in mind the ship was a city of 6000 people with a HUGE airport, weapons manufacturing plants, heavy industry etc etc. Because the ship's surgeon and I were friends, I also had the added bonus of attending some parties set up at foreign ports of call that were not open to all enlisted. Nice bonus.

 

To say the ship's PA appeared bored would be a vast understatement. This was 1996, he was still studying to pass the PANCE. Hardly ever saw the guy outside of sick call or in the ship's gym.

 

I think if you want some cool life experiences with a minimal chance of being shot while serving in the US Navy, a carrier could be a cool gig. Medically, I don't think you'll find it challenging. Your entire patient panel gets a physical every year, all their immunizations, and has a baseline level of decent health before they get deployed. We did have a couple of ventilators on board and a three bed ICU, things were still pretty rudimentary. Anything that was serious and could fly, went to a shore based facility. We did have one Arrest/STEMI that we managed for a few days and had an amotriptolyne overdose that seized and ended up on a vent, but those were managed by the MDs with the PA looking on, not hands on. So non medically...gotta sorta drum up your fun, getting involved in different things to pass the time. Ports of call of course were always fun.

 

So would I go back as a PA...nah...I'm 39 years old and have had a large amount of really cool life experiences. I have three little kids and I don't want to be a deployed dad. I'm looking at 20 years of earning power to get the kids to college and think about retirement. As a current PA student I am excited about what I'm learning and look forward to the continued new challenges. However...if you're thinking about going to the service as a PA and will have to serve "sea rotations", there are worse experiences than being on a carrier, that's for sure.

[Corpsman2PA]

Here's a typical/atypical week if you go Green (Fleet Marine Force) as a Corpsman: I can only speak for the infantry at Camp Lejeune here...

 

Monday:

Show up at 0500 to PT with your platoon. Triage the guys that got hurt over the weekend, are still hungover, etc. Run until somebody falls out or throws up. Come back and shower. Eat chow. Show up to platoon formation at 0730, check over your guys again to see who gut hurt during the run and figure out who actually is bad enough to see the Doctor. Run over to the Battalion Aid Station (BAS) and get briefed/ word passed from the Navy side at 0800. 0815 start seeing sick call. 11ish, go tell your Gunny which Marines are on light duty...after he chews your A$$ for a few minutes and tells you he's about to put you on light duty, retreat back to the barracks for lunch...1pm, go back to BAS for any appointments that you have made with your Marines (physicals, etc). Do shot calls (giving imms, etc) Head to the armory to clean your weapon...tell your Staff Sergeant you have to "Go to the BAS" but actually go to the px and grab Red Bulls and Monsters for all the guys. Come back and "stand-by" for the gear list that you'll be taking to the field. 6pm, another company formation to get dismissed. Head to BAS to steal supplies you'll need for the field. Go home or to your barracks room and pack for the field. Forecast is clear and sunny.

 

Tues-Friday morning: Rain. In the field training. Treating aches, pains, sniffles, coughs, headaches, blisters, sprains, ticks, stings, cellulitis, lacs, vomiting, diarrhea, heat stroke, etc all with what you can fit in your little pack..while evacuating any that need to see a Doctor or go to the hospital. Your triage gets pretty good out there. Sometimes we would send a Corpsman back to the clinic with the patient for I&D's, etc. Just depends. Some stuff you don't want to mess with in the nasty field environment. Teach medical classes (TCCC, buddy care, etc...) to the Marines, whatever floats your boat.

 

Friday afternoon: Return from field, by force march. Rain stops. Clean weapons and wait for armory turn in. Talk about how stupid the last field op was and how you can't wait to drink that night. 230pm have platoon formation....3pm wait for company formation.....4pm have company commander pass word, and stand-by for battalion formation.....430pm........5pm.......530pm......6pm.....615pm.....Battalion Commander finally comes out to give safety brief you've heard every friday for the last 3-4 years....

 

Saturday night: Get a call at 1am from one of your Marines requesting an IV and sutures...

 

Repeat above, then deploy prn. :)

 

It was good times. I honestly wouldn't trade that experience for the world!

[Ingram]

So would I go back as a PA...nah...I'm 39 years old and have had a large amount of really cool life experiences. I have three little kids and I don't want to be a deployed dad. I'm looking at 20 years of earning power to get the kids to college and think about retirement. As a current PA student I am excited about what I'm learning and look forward to the continued new challenges. However...if you're thinking about going to the service as a PA and will have to serve "sea rotations", there are worse experiences than being on a carrier, that's for sure.

 

Sorry I phrased my question wrong but you answered it anyway. I was questioning whether you would prefer the role of PA vs Corpsman if you had it to do over again. You answered the job satisfaction/challenge questions. I had read your previous post about your experience with that PA and it made me wonder if he was just "bored to tears", but it's all clear now.

 

I'd like to thank all of those who replied to this thread with special thanks to JustSteve, HMtoPA, bgdog, and Corpsman2PA! You guys really were able to shed some light on the unknown for me.

 

Sincerely,

Brian