Cideous Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, TexasPA28 said: That's not any different than a PA. All of medicine is corporatized. If anything MDs have more flexibility to escape corporate medicine than PAs do but....they don't. When is the last time you saw a doc hang a shingle? LOL. yea....it hardly if ever happens anymore. Docs have completely given up their role in medicine. I'm glad I didn't waste my time joining their ranks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rieno82 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 This is so useful to hear everyone’s thoughts. I am a PA now for 7 years working EMed and Surgery. I am feeling like there is a significant ceiling however being a PA and am applying to med school now hopefully to become a surgeon. I have 3 kiddos and that is my biggest dilemma... anyone else out there that has any thoughts on Med school with kids ages 3-10?? My husband is a huge support but am I totally going to miss out on a ton? I know PA school was so busy but I’m hoping med school will be less hours/week in more years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 20 minutes ago, Rieno82 said: This is so useful to hear everyone’s thoughts. I am a PA now for 7 years working EMed and Surgery. I am feeling like there is a significant ceiling however being a PA and am applying to med school now hopefully to become a surgeon. I have 3 kiddos and that is my biggest dilemma... anyone else out there that has any thoughts on Med school with kids ages 3-10?? My husband is a huge support but am I totally going to miss out on a ton? I know PA school was so busy but I’m hoping med school will be less hours/week in more years... Uggh. Hard truth. You will wake up one day at the end of Med school, residency and your fellowship and your kids will be grown and you will miss it all. 4 years med school, 5 years surgical residency, 1-2 years fellowship. Do the math. Surgery is by far the most intense residency there is. There will be no soccer games, plays or date nights for you. Just work. Not to pile on, but a supportive spouse only goes so far in a relationship. Divorce rates for medical school and residency especially surgical residency are off the charts. Lastly I will say this. I have a friend who was a surgeon, a urologist in fact. I say was because she, after all that time and work....left the field. She now does esthetics. Why? She hated the politics of her surgical group and when she turned 39, she had a heart attack. For the record she was about 130lbs, fit and had great genes. The MI was 100% stress related. Just a cautionary tale. Good luck in whatever you choose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rieno82 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 That’s what I fear. In one hand I think it would be great for my kids to see their Mom working hard for a dream but on the other hand-not see their Mom. thank you for your input, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatMan Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 @Rieno82I know a pediatrician who was a PA before med school and he says med school was a breeze compared to PA school. But, as stated, a surgical residency is a different story (I also know a FM doc who completed 2 years of general surgery residency and quit because of missed family time). Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 (edited) Depends on the age and experience of whom you’re asking. Me, late 70’s, MUCH fewer Med schools in Texas compared to today, competition was MUCH greater if for no other reason than numbers alone. Fast forward 40 years to today, Med school or bust. In today’s climate there is no way I’d do PA again. It paid for a nice lifestyle between them and now, and a nice retirement, but knowing what I know today having seen the transition of medicine; I want to be more knowledgeable, have more opportunities, and be higher up the food chain. Short and concise? I hit PA perfectly and couldn’t have hit MD any worse. DO’s were bastardized step-children back then. Edited March 1, 2021 by GetMeOuttaThisMess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 1, 2021 15 hours ago, GetMeOuttaThisMess said: Depends on the age and experience of whom you’re asking. Me, late 70’s, MUCH fewer Med schools in Texas compared to today, competition was MUCH greater if for no other reason than numbers alone. Fast forward 40 years to today, Med school or bust. In today’s climate there is no way I’d do PA again. It paid for a nice lifestyle between them and now, and a nice retirement, but knowing what I know today having seen the transition of medicine; I want to be more knowledgeable, have more opportunities, and be higher up the food chain. Short and concise? I hit PA perfectly and couldn’t have hit MD any worse. DO’s were bastardized step-children back then. Totally agree with 100% of this. In my early 50s I would still go back to medschool today if single with no commitments. It is 100% NOT about the money. It's about the respect and opportunities for better training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 The question she asked was not really about PA school vs Med school. I agree 100% with you guys that I would not recommend PA school anymore. We simply have far too many restrictions now compared to our main competitors ...NP's. Her question was about going back to become a surgeon while having 3 kids ages 3-10 and I gave her the brutal truth. She will miss their childhoods. Period. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted March 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Cideous said: The question she asked was not really about PA school vs Med school. I agree 100% with you guys that I would not recommend PA school anymore. We simply have far too many restrictions now compared to our main competitors ...NP's. Her question was about going back to become a surgeon while having 3 kids ages 3-10 and I gave her the brutal truth. She will miss their childhoods. Period. true. If she was interested in FM or EM it would be much more doable. Surgery is brutal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriarMedic Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 2/28/2021 at 2:06 PM, Rieno82 said: This is so useful to hear everyone’s thoughts. I am a PA now for 7 years working EMed and Surgery. I am feeling like there is a significant ceiling however being a PA and am applying to med school now hopefully to become a surgeon. I have 3 kiddos and that is my biggest dilemma... anyone else out there that has any thoughts on Med school with kids ages 3-10?? My husband is a huge support but am I totally going to miss out on a ton? I know PA school was so busy but I’m hoping med school will be less hours/week in more years... Starting my 4th year of med school in about a month. PA to MD with 3 kids slightly younger than yours. Med school is very doable if you have some income coming in, can save up some bank before hand and can work a little throughout. I work about 3-4 shifts a month and extra on breaks to keep us in our house. Ive been home for dinner with the family every night M1-M3 except a handful of overnights here and there. Compare that to full time EM PA missing dinner 3-4x week. I haven’t missed any major events in my kids lives and was there to drop my son off for his first day of kindergarten and went to my Peds rotation after that. Admin and preceptors at my program are very welcoming towards those of us with kids and I’m extremely grateful for that. peak stress moments as a med student with kids were step 1 dedicated period and surgery rotation. M1-m2 was great, predictable hours 8-12pm or 4pm and study after that. Very available for pick up/drop offs. Clerkship are more challenging , constantly changing and at the behest of someone else’s schedule so flexibility here is key. im steering away from surgical residencies because I’m older and with kids and those residencies can be grueling hours. bottom line- the med school piece is very doable with kids. The residency, I’m anticipating, is where it becomes a real challenge. But there are less stressful residency options out there. Feel free to pm me. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 With regard to the statement of corporate medicine taking over, the one escape I see to this is the concierge model for PCP’s. I had a chance to discuss briefly with my mom’s new residential PCP/internist whose group is concierge only. He only had positive things to say about it and enjoys getting out and making housecalls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) This is a great old thread. I have a lot of regrets, but not going to medical school is not one of them. I regret not buying bitcoin early on. I did “think about” going to medical school in the first year of my career because I didn’t know any better. I guess you could call that a regret? But after over 10 years of practice, I am glad I did not go to medical school. The stuff I don’t like about medicine would still exist even if I am a physician: politics, clueless administrators, patient satisfaction, stupid compliance metrics, getting sued..the list goes on. Unless I can be the head honcho, but in reality, most of the physicians are no longer the only head honcho in the game. I’ve seen physicians getting fired for treating staff poorly (which is great). I also see plenty of physicians burnout, both young and old. Don’t get me wrong, PA gets burn out too, but at least we didn’t spend as much time, effort, and money to do so. Physicians have ceilings too, they are plenty of physicians out there. It is not like you will automatically become a CEO just because you are a physician (you also don’t need to be a physician to be a CEO). I realized there will always be someone breathing down your neck, it doesn’t matter who you are. Most of the PAs that I know similar to me are debt-free before their 40s, have a house and kids. Kids will eventually go to college when I am 50. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with most of you the PA profession has a lot of issues. If anything, I regret not becoming an RN. I know plenty of RN here in California making 130,000K+ plus full benefits. I don’t even know why people want to become an NP. Imagine you get your RN Certificate after 2 years, at the most get your BSN right after high school. Slowly working your way up. By the time you are 25, you will most likely be making over 100K with full benefit. In your mid-20s, you starting saving in your 401k, retire accounts, buying index funds, buy real estate, you will be in good shape. Lower liability, less responsibility, start making real money younger, less opportunity cost, better lifestyle because of nursing union. Medical school? no thanks, not for me. Here is an example of a Pennsylvania RN fly to California every other week to work. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5232221/Pennsylvania-nurse-commutes-2-600-miles-work-Oakland.html Average California RN makes $113,240 https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/rankings-and-ratings/registered-nurse-salary-for-all-50-states-california-no-1-at-113-240.html Edited March 4, 2021 by PACali 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, PACali said: This is a great old thread. I have a lot of regrets, but not going to medical school is not one of them. I regret not buying bitcoin early on. I did “think about” going to medical school in the first year of my career because I didn’t know any better. I guess you could call that a regret? But after over 10 years of practice, I am glad I did not go to medical school. The stuff I don’t like about medicine would still exist even if I am a physician: politics, clueless administrators, patient satisfaction, stupid compliance metrics, getting sued..the list goes on. Unless I can be the head honcho, but in reality, most of the physicians are no longer the only head honcho in the game. I’ve seen physicians getting fired for treating staff poorly (which is great). I also see plenty of physicians burnout, both young and old. Don’t get me wrong, PA gets burn out too, but at least we didn’t spend as much time, effort, and money to do so. Physicians have ceilings too, they are plenty of physicians out there. It is not like you will automatically become a CEO just because you are a physician (you also don’t need to be a physician to be a CEO). I realized there will always be someone breathing down your neck, it doesn’t matter who you are. Most of the PAs that I know similar to me are debt-free before their 40s, have a house and kids. Kids will eventually go to college when I am 50. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with most of you the PA profession has a lot of issues. If anything, I regret not becoming an RN. I know plenty of RN here in California making 130,000K+ plus full benefits. I don’t even know why people want to become an NP. Imagine you get your RN Certificate after 2 years, at the most get your BSN right after high school. Slowly working your way up. By the time you are 25, you will most likely be making over 100K with full benefit. In your mid-20s, you starting saving in your 401k, retire accounts, buying index funds, buy real estate, you will be in good shape. Lower liability, less responsibility, start making real money younger, less opportunity cost, better lifestyle because of nursing union. Medical school? no thanks, not for me. Here is an example of a Pennsylvania RN fly to every other California just to work. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5232221/Pennsylvania-nurse-commutes-2-600-miles-work-Oakland.html Average California RN makes $113,240 https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/rankings-and-ratings/registered-nurse-salary-for-all-50-states-california-no-1-at-113-240.html What a great post....I mean this is a real thread winner if there is such a thing. I agree 100% with all of it. Everything. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I have increasing regrets about not going to med school but having 2 X chromosomes and a brain would still make my path difficult. I agree with a lot of CaliPA above. Medicine as a whole is waning as an art. My current battle is the dwindling belief in science and the pain of Dr Google. Deep weary sigh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose66 Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I think PA's very doing pretty good before the surge of NP's now there very limited opportunies for PAs compare to NP or MD because of the supply and the fact that PA's are not independent , it real life NP are prefer in the job market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 My regret is that I didn't switch to medicine from corporate IT 10-15 years earlier. At that point in my life, spending the upfront time in medical school and residency, with accompanying lost income, would have be outweighed by the 2.5X income and reduction of barriers that I would have as a doc. Still, I've been very fortunate. I'm very cognizant of the fact that I have a uniquely great EM job: solo overnight coverage with a doc on-call, paid 30% than I was making for one of the big 3 EM staffing co's at a busy level III trauma center. Almost all of my friends and colleagues don't have it this well off. At the age I switched to medicine, PA was and is still the right choice. Younger, depending on age and area of medicine - I recommend going to medical school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.