Urgent Care New Grad Offer, Advice Please?

[late_bloomer]

Well, I finally got an offer to an urgent care position in my area, which I am very happy to receive. This was my 4th meeting with this group and almost 3 months since my first interview with them.

 

On the 4th meeting, I was called in my by their office manager and stated to come in for a formal offer. When I get there to meet her and the physicians, they give me the contract, but do not go over anything. Pretty much asked if I had any questions, and said go home and review the contract at your leisure and stated that this is their "standard" contract. He stated standard contract a few times. Not sure if he is hinting on anything. Is that normal? Usually I thought they would discuss the general things like salary and what not?

 

So after getting home, I look at the contract and the offer is for 1 year at 65k with standard benefits, like 15 days pto, 2000 cme/professional memberships, and previously told me incentive/bonus is after 1 year. But on the contract the incentive/bonus does not mention after 1 year. It says provider may earn up to 50% of base salary that is discretionary by them based on productivity, attitude, patient satisfaction. Productivity is assessed by gross annual production divided by factor of 5.5, and the factor can change.

 

I am NOT expecting incentive my first year, but it seems very vague? I am assuming that in my 2nd year I should get something more concrete and based on numbers not discretionary by them?? I was going to call them to clarify the incentive.

 

 

So...I know many of you usually start at 75k or more, but the area here usually pays PA's a lot less. My sister who is a physician hired her PA 2 years ago at 60 and told me I should be happy at 65. I have the aapa profile salary and it states that urgent care gets 77k on average w/ less than 1 year experience for the entire state. I had the AAPA profile and already had in my mind what I was going to say after they gave me the offer, because I was expecting an offer of around 65k. But I never got to know the salary until I came home.

 

Now, I have the actual contract in my hands and feel weird to call and ask for more. Honestly, I just want 70k and I know its only 5k difference but for some reason it feels like a big difference to me going from the 60's to 70's... Is it normal for you to be able to discuss salary with them after they written up the contract and handed it to you? I don't know if I should bring it up, but this will be my only chance until next year.

 

Advice Please :p

 

Thanks in advance!!!

[late_bloomer]

.... tried to delete this extra post..

[Guest LMorton]

late_bloomer,

 

Feel free to contact AAPA. We offer career support for PAs because we realize that contract negotiation can be a sticky subject. You'll want to talk to Jennifer Hohman, our Assistant Director for Professional Affairs. Her number is 703.836.2272 ext. 3220 or you can contact her by email at jhohman@aapa.org.

 

For a little background on what we offer, you can visit this post on our PA Pro NOW news blog.

 

Hope this helps!

 

~Lynn

Lynn Morton

Manager, Marketing Technologies

AAPA

[rsqdvr]

Not sure if I can help with all of your questions but in regards to re-negotiating the contract after it is printed, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I didn't have a contract, per se, but I did have all of the details of my offer on the offer letter. I asked for a week to think it over and ended up calling them and asking for more. It's very easy just to re-print the thing with the new amount. You have to give it a try now because, as you said, once you start it's nearly impossible to make a change in the short-term. You just have to be prepared for what you would do if they so no to your request. Best of luck.

[jwells78]

Well- at least you got the location you wanted, but 65 is damn low. I know LPN's that make that much, no offense. There's an EM group in the state of Washington that notoriously low-balls new grads and puts them in VERY rural areas starting at 80K- and I thought that seemed entry level, even for EM/Urgent care.

 

Don't let them pay you 65K brother, they are shafting you. Don't let anyone tell you to "be happy at 65," because they are wrong. I would re-neg.

[Shawn_Not_Sean]

"Everything is negotiable." - Faculty member at my program

 

Don't let them pressure you into believing that you have no say or power in changing things in the contract. Put yourself in the driver seat. Don't be adversarial about it. But remember this, the most important factor in how much money you will make in the future is how much money you start out at. If the pay is important to you, talk with them. Show them the AAPA data on salary so you have something substantial to back up why you believe you should be making closer to 70k. But remember, if you get this job, you will have to work with these people everyday. Try your best to not get emotional. And if things are not going very well, ask to have time to think everything over. - If they are an employer that you would actually want to work for, chances are they are not going to want to pressure you into anything. They want you to be a happy and productive employee (emphasis on productive).

[the cableguy]

Wait. So what state is this? If I remember right, when I was negotiating all last year with different employers in different states, the national average for primary care was around $72k and I believe the data was a year or two old. Urgent care should make more. NEGOTIATE. As long as you are professional about it, the worst they can do is tell you no. Give reasons though. Don't just throw out a random number. Maybe they need to be educated. Use the information provided by the AAPA to back up your counter offer.

[Guest 8medical]

I am glad money is not the reason I am going into PA. I am a nurse manager and I am making over $80,000.

[EMEDPA]

I am glad money is not the reason I am going into PA. I am a nurse manager and I am making over $80,000.

 

the avg pa last yr with more than 1 yr of experience as a pa made 86k. it's only the new grads who get hosed.

[the cableguy]

I think a couple of the biggest barriers to finding a good paying job in your preferred area of medicine are:

 

1. Waiting too late to start the job hunting process.

2. Being geographically tied down to a certain region.

 

The good paying jobs are out there. Because I started looking a year out from graduation I was able to turn down several offers in the $94k range. But, I did not lock myself into any specific region. I looked all over the US and overseas. Had I waited until right before graduation or, yikes, after graduation, I would have pretty much been forced to take the first offer I received. I had set my cut off at $70k. I told myself I would not consider any offer paying less than this, especially after working my butt off for six years. I never would have dreamed that my first job out of PA school I would be making considerably more than $100k. The good jobs are out there. Look long and hard. Start looking early.

[late_bloomer]

Thanks for the advice.. After talking with my family and sister who was a physician in the area, I decided to accept the offer. I will be starting soon, but when I look back I should of asked for the 70k range. I was kind of afraid and nervous because it is the only job offer I had at the time. Also, the few PA's I talked to in this area are making about the same as me (in primary care) with a few years of experience. This was the only job in my area and its a job I wanted. Hopefully my 2nd year I can hit my bonuses and maybe ask for a 10k raise to 75k. Still excited to start working and will work as hard as I can to be the best PA I can. But I do feel disappointed when all my classmates are making more.

 

Cable guy, this is in the state of Washington. I wanted to work ER, but its hard to get a job with no experience. My classmate is working ER as her first job and she is doing well 100k+, but different area.

[late_bloomer]

I wish I was able to read your comments earlier before I accepted the offer. Man I feel frustrated and disappointed at MYSELF for not even TRYING to re-negotiate. If I read your advices, I would of tried to re-neg. I guess that is what happens when you are a newbie and listen to your family :( . I guess its a learning stone but a mistake I have to live with for a year and maybe more! There is a non-compete clause, so I can't even find another primary care position in my area for 1 year.

 

Even if they said no, this is our final offer I would of felt better cause I tried. Damn I feel the shaft!

 

I guess it would be hard to get a 10-15k raise after 1 year huh? Siighh...

[underserved]

I wish I was able to read your comments earlier before I accepted the offer. Man I feel frustrated and disappointed at MYSELF for not even TRYING to re-negotiate. If I read your advices, I would of tried to re-neg. I guess that is what happens when you are a newbie and listen to your family :( . I guess its a learning stone but a mistake I have to live with for a year and maybe more! There is a non-compete clause, so I can't even find another primary care position in my area for 1 year.

 

 

Even if they said no, this is our final offer I would of felt better cause I tried. Damn I feel the shaft!

 

I guess it would be hard to get a 10-15k raise after 1 year huh? Siighh...

 

Not to add fuel to an already burning fire but when you take offers like this it hurts not just you but the entire profession; especially for new graduates. If you are okay wit 65K then maybe you should look into becoming an RN or RT?

[the cableguy]

I'm in Washington. It is a great state for PAs. I had two job offers last year in Washington, right out of school. A sweet 8-5 urgent care gig paying $90k+ and an even better job that I accepted working ER/clinic/hospital for $120k+.

 

PA students: You MUST start job hunting at least 6 months out from graduation. One year is better. If you wait till graduation you'll be forced to take whatever is offered. The bills have to get paid eventually.

[areyou4real]

Not to add fuel to an already burning fire but when you take offers like this it hurts not just you but the entire profession; especially for new graduates. If you are okay wit 65K then maybe you should look into becoming an RN or RT?

 

PA is the fasting growing career over the next 10 years; you are a hot commodity and have a lot of negotiating power, even as a new grad.

 

No disrepect - but you got taken advantage of and hurt the entire profession by taking this offer. Also, if you plan to stay there or in the area, you also just dramatically lowered your lifetime earning potential. You are now $10-15k behind for your entire career plus raises on that $10-15k moving forward. Multiply that by 40 years and you could potentially be out $500,000+ over your lifetime.

 

FYI: Even though it's in the contract, non-compete may not be legally enforcable in your state. That is the case in quite a few states and you should look into that.

 

Moral of the story: Be sure to do your homework next time!

[underserved]

I'm in Washington. It is a great state for PAs. I had two job offers last year in Washington, right out of school. A sweet 8-5 urgent care gig paying $90k+ and an even better job that I accepted working ER/clinic/hospital for $120k+.

 

PA students: You MUST start job hunting at least 6 months out from graduation. One year is better. If you wait till graduation you'll be forced to take whatever is offered. The bills have to get paid eventually.

I will be starting PA school in two weeks. Thanks for the advice and congrats on a great job offer. Thanks also for not settling for 65K.

[VentJock]

Not to add fuel to an already burning fire but when you take offers like this it hurts not just you but the entire profession; especially for new graduates. If you are okay wit 65K then maybe you should look into becoming an RN or RT?

 

My first year as a RRT I made $74,000 working an average of 44hrs a week.

 

Going back to school and ending up $100k+ in debt to go back to make $65,000 with MORE responsibilities and hours?

 

Sadly the rising cost of PA school and the fact that more new grads take low ball offers make the profession seem less attractive at times.

[underserved]

My first year as a RRT I made $74,000 working an average of 44hrs a week.

 

Going back to school and ending up $100k+ in debt to go back to make $65,000 with MORE responsibilities and hours?

 

Sadly the rising cost of PA school and the fact that more new grads take low ball offers make the profession seem less attractive at times.

I totally agree and that is why I have no sympathy for folks who regrets taking low ball offers. Everytime those SPs hires PAs for under 70K, they are jumping for joy and using that extra 10-15K going on cruises; while those PAs work their butt off for 65K!

[cervantes21]

Will, I like your mindset and this was a topic I threw out for some buddies at school today. My question is how did you start making contact at a year out from graduation? I like the idea but I'm not sure how to approach it. I start clinicals in the fall, so I'm glad I ran across your post. So, did you contact groups that were hiring at a year out and say "hey, you might need somebody right now, but I just need to cook for one more year and I'll be ready"....? I'm in Las Vegas, and the general consensus is that it a pretty decent state to start out money wise, but wow, the numbers can vary so much. So, pretty much I'm just curious at your approach...any tips?

[the cableguy]

...So, pretty much I'm just curious at your approach...any tips?

 

I started with emails. I am an NHSC scholar so I was forced to only consider jobs listed on the NHSC website. This excluded all specialty medicine. You should have infinitely more opportunities than I did without similar restrictions. I sent emails to any job listing that I thought looked interesting and had an opening for a PA, NP, or physician. I did not limit myself to only PA opportunites. If the offer was listed only for NPs or physicians, I would still email and ask them if they had considered hiring a PA (the job I have now was an opening for a physician). In case they weren't familiar, I would briefly explain what the capabilities of a PA are. If I didn't hear back within a few weeks I would follow up with another email. If I still didn't hear back in another couple of weeks I would then follow up with a phone call. Many times, the email addresses were not updated and they never received my emails so it really helped to call.

 

This strategy was very successful for me, especially because I started this process a year out from graduation. I had multiple interviews and job offers. Some great. Some crappy. BUT I had plenty of time to negotiate and, ultimately, walk away from an offer that I didn't like (with NO pressure or stress). When I negotiated I always attempted to justify my counteroffers instead of throwing out random numbers. I used the FREE AAPA salary surveys. It was very helpful. I believe I have a copy of an email from one of my negotiations floating around here somewhere on this forum. Below is a generic template I would use for some of my emails. I hope this helps. Good luck to you.

 

Hello _________,

 

My name is Will, and I am a PA student set to graduate next year. I am interested to know if you anticipate any PA employment opportunties in the future. If so, please keep me in mind. I can submit a resume on request and would be happy to answer any questions regarding my background or experience. Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Kind regards,

 

-Will Cable

[cervantes21]

This is some good info! Thanks Will. I've shared this with my friends at school and hope this topic can be useful to other guys/gals a year out or so from the PANCE. It can only help everybody when we start out on the right foot as grads. I'll keep an eye on this topic and update as I start to wrestle with employers for a position.

[the cableguy]

Of course. Its no problem. I enjoy sharing lessons learned. Good luck with the job hunting.

[charle007]

TO the CableGuy and others, im about 1 year away from graduating. When researching jobs, besides looking at the salary what else could one do when looking at jobs. I hear alot about "researching" what does that mean exactly.

 

please some Guidance would be appreciated.

[EMEDPA]

keep a file of job ads that look good to you starting NOW.

you should have some idea of what specialties interest you and what general geographic areas you would consider.

as you get within 3-4 months of graduation start sending out cv's.

don't just look at salary. you also need to consider the benefits package. a great benefits package can make up for a lower salary.

for example if job 1 pays 75k and malpractice only with no other bennies and job 2 pays 70k but has medical/dental/vision /all fees/6 weeks vacation /etc then job 2 is obviously the better job.

[sillycibin]

65K is low, and it doesn't necessarily hurt to ask for 70K, but unless you have other offers on the table, you have no leverage. And from my job hunting experience, every job I applied for had several other applicants. Question is, will they take 65K if you refuse it? New grads have very little leverage, and you really are a loss to a practice for 3-6 months. And then the next problem will be getting the raise you deserve after 1 year. The difference in abilities b/w a 1 year experienced PA and a new grad is huge. But don't be surprised if they offer you 2K for your raise. I strongly advise getting other offers next year to have leverage. Many PAs have to switch jobs to get paid the amount they deserve after their "internship" year.