rdhorrocks Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hello all, I am just curious what one could expect to make with their own practice. I hear a lot about how much people are paying their SP but haven't heard really what they can make themselves. I really would appreciate if you didn't respond with "it depends". I'm looking for some good numbers. Say one were to own his or her own practice and they worked full time 5 days/week and had one receptionist that took care of all the billing. How much could you expect to make. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hello all, I am just curious what one could expect to make with their own practice. I hear a lot about how much people are paying their SP but haven't heard really what they can make themselves. I really would appreciate if you didn't respond with "it depends". I'm looking for some good numbers. Say one were to own his or her own practice and they worked full time 5 days/week and had one receptionist that took care of all the billing. How much could you expect to make. Thanks! There are a lot of variables, including what type of practice and at what timing in the set up. The set up can be a rough period . . . just ask me as I'm starting my second quarter. Because insurance companies are slow to pay (and unfortunately my highly recommended biller was horrible and I had to fire her), and the start up cost are very high, you have to be humble and pay yourself last. I will be candid with you. My schedule has been busting at the seams since the day I opened. I have an MD and a psychologist who work for me part time. I took a big pay cut and am still paying myself at a rate of 75K/year and is virtually with no benefits (except CME and other travel cost). Now, my average pay should be (based on my experience and job offers standing right now) of $125/k year. But once you are on your feet and you have your debts paid, AND you keep a full schedule of patients with a decent insurance (at least a healthy mix) a PA owner can eventually pay themselves 100-200K year. Once again it depends on variables such as how many productive (patient-seeking and billing) employees you have and the type of practice. An interventual type of practice could do much better. With the amount of stress it has taken to get me where I am, I will not hesitate to pay myself well, but only when the company can afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Say one were to own his or her own practice and they worked full time 5 days/week and had one receptionist that took care of all the billing. How much could you expect to make. Thanks! NO way to answer that without first knowing: Specialty Location Population Medical Experience Business Experience Debt load Competition in community Opposition in local medical community to NPP "owning" a practice Benevolence of Physician "employee" Local Realty market State Business & Income taxes etc. Toooo many variables for someone to get on here and give you a hard number without knowing the above. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 There are a lot of variables, including what type of practice and at what timing in the set up. The set up can be a rough period . . . just ask me as I'm starting my second quarter. Because insurance companies are slow to pay (and unfortunately my highly recommended biller was horrible and I had to fire her), and the start up cost are very high, you have to be humble and pay yourself last. I will be candid with you. My schedule has been busting at the seams since the day I opened. I have an MD and a psychologist who work for me part time. I took a big pay cut and am still paying myself at a rate of 75K/year and is virtually with no benefits (except CME and other travel cost). Now, my average pay should be (based on my experience and job offers standing right now) of $125/k year. But once you are on your feet and you have your debts paid, AND you keep a full schedule of patients with a decent insurance (at least a healthy mix) a PA owner can eventually pay themselves 100-200K year. Once again it depends on variables such as how many productive (patient-seeking and billing) employees you have and the type of practice. An interventual type of practice could do much better. With the amount of stress it has taken to get me where I am, I will not hesitate to pay myself well, but only when the company can afford it. And let's not forget all the speaking fees you're going to collect on your lecture tour with topics such as: "The Headaches in Starting a PA Headache Clinic" "Dealing with the Difficult HMO" and of course "Supervising, Schmupervising- Physicians who work for US". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted October 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have a slightly differnt thought I am still considering doing my own IM primary care practice and I back into the numbers that I would need to be paid as my finacial projections. I would not ever consider doing it (way to many head aches) unless I would make at least 120 most my numbers end up 120-150 for income 250-300 gross 150-180 expenses I take home 120-150 Now I am still in planning stage so this information has zero street value.... Also, I have done a fair amount of reading and research on what IM doc's get paid as well as what reciepts, billings, and the like are good pay for IM doc is 200/yr crappy pay is 130/yr around here Have looked at two different practices where the doc's earn 150-220 per year (looking to buy in so I had all financials) I figure we get 85% and have a supervision fee (maybe another 10%) Therefore our gross is about 75% of what a doc gets, then we have the same ~50 overhead for primary care(based on the higher physician reimbursement) so you loose about 65% to overhead. On $300 in receipts this leaves you with 105 so you had better be a good business person and not afraid of working some longer hours to make it work I think start up pay in the 60-75k till you mkae money is a must but YOU HAVE TO PAY YOURSELF what you are worth (which is 120-150 IMHO) once you are up and running otherwise you are just giving your services away. Then the real good starts when you get and employee provider who you can make money off - if you can make $50k/yr off an MD/PA/NP you can be approaching 200 - or if you are very cost aware (cheap like me) you might be able to eek out more. For me personally I want to be at $2k/week and a profit at the end of the year of 15-50k as my long term goal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have a slightly differnt thought I am still considering doing my own IM primary care practice and I back into the numbers that I would need to be paid as my finacial projections. I would not ever consider doing it (way to many head aches) unless I would make at least 120 most my numbers end up 120-150 for income 250-300 gross 150-180 expenses I take home 120-150 Now I am still in planning stage so this information has zero street value.... Also, I have done a fair amount of reading and research on what IM doc's get paid as well as what reciepts, billings, and the like are good pay for IM doc is 200/yr crappy pay is 130/yr around here Have looked at two different practices where the doc's earn 150-220 per year (looking to buy in so I had all financials) I figure we get 85% and have a supervision fee (maybe another 10%) Therefore our gross is about 75% of what a doc gets, then we have the same ~50 overhead for primary care(based on the higher physician reimbursement) so you loose about 65% to overhead. On $300 in receipts this leaves you with 105 so you had better be a good business person and not afraid of working some longer hours to make it work I think start up pay in the 60-75k till you mkae money is a must but YOU HAVE TO PAY YOURSELF what you are worth (which is 120-150 IMHO) once you are up and running otherwise you are just giving your services away. Then the real good starts when you get and employee provider who you can make money off - if you can make $50k/yr off an MD/PA/NP you can be approaching 200 - or if you are very cost aware (cheap like me) you might be able to eek out more. For me personally I want to be at $2k/week and a profit at the end of the year of 15-50k as my long term goal... You numbers look correct to me in the real word, you just may not realize that the first year. There are many hidden start up cost, many taxes and fees that add up. But beyond the first year, I think those numbers are realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdhorrocks Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 I love it guys. That's some pretty interesting stuff to think about. I imagine you could make a lot of money off other employees like massage therapists/PAs/PTs/MDs etc. I love the honesty, thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imraanqazi Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hi guys I am not in your shoes yet but I have been lot around clinics. Its a big headache but these are really interesting figures. I have just one question that if PA is making near around 100 k in any IM practice or ER PAs are making 100k. why we take that much headache. One more thing how long supervision is required ( how many hours a week and how much MD get from it)in this type of setting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 3, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hi guys I am not in your shoes yet but I have been lot around clinics. Its a big headache but these are really interesting figures. I have just one question that if PA is making near around 100 k in any IM practice or ER PAs are making 100k. why we take that much headache. One more thing how long supervision is required ( how many hours a week and how much MD get from it)in this type of setting to control one's own fate also, there hopefully is the payoff to have a higher income.... in my case - looking at having 2-3 PA/NP's in addition to my self.... if I can make $20-50k from each PA/NP I can add 40-100k to my income (with a lot more headaches granted) Also, their is the fact the I really believe I can do it better then any of the doc's (except for one) that I have worked with. An MD degree does not make you a good business person - in fact it might make you a bad business person as you are so used to always being right and the top of the pile...... however I grew up in a family where both my parents were small business owners, and I have both undergrad and MBA along with the fact my wife has her own PT/OT/SLP practice...... sort of in the blood I guess Also, the state I am in is very physician UNfriendly and the area I am in is run by one monopoly hospital system that is a teaching hosptial and they are a good 10 years behind the curve on learning what PA/NP can do - comments like "no PA will ever be allowed in 'my' ICU to do a procedure" from a recent pulmonologist" show that they are not on the cutting edge of utilization of PA's..... so LOTS of reasons - some financial (heck if you hare going to work this hard there had better be a pay off) and a lot of personal and professional satisfaction reasons..... then tucked way in the back of my head....... the number #1 way to become a millionare is to own your own small business... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasons Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Been a long time since I have been around here, but thought I could chime in on this one. I don’t normally like to talk about how much I make, but I am going to share some numbers to make it real. I started an FP group 8 years ago. I lost money for the first 3 years, made money for the next 3 years, lost money in 2010, and again made money this year. I have 1 full time MD, two part time MDs, another PA, and two NPs, all full time, and have about 20 staff members to go along with them. My practice is primarily FP, with some urgent care and occ med. So, 2011, we billed $4mil, collected $2.7mil on an overhead of $2.3mil. Now that makes it sound like I made $400K right. Because we are an S corp (PC) all profits are passed on to me, regardless if I take the money home.Since I lost money in 2010, about $150K of that went to cover the losses from the previous year. Another$100K is reinvested back in as capital improvements (new computers, additional software licenses, etc). Some went to replenish the reserves. In the end, I took just a bit over $100K out of the business, over and above my salary (which is just slightly higher than market). Still sounds rosy right. Now since I had such a great year, remember, all profits are passed through to me for tax purposes, so my tax bill this year is real close to $150K. That works out to an effective tax rate of about 50% of what I took home. Not to pee on your parade, but all your projections don’t show any thing going to pay for our great uncle Sam! So, in the end, I have risked a ton of money, had many sleepless nights wondering about payroll, taxes, debt service, pissed off employees, pissed off patients, vendors wanting their money before they ship their goods, etc, all to be able to say that I control my own destiny and am the King in my little fiefdom. Was/is it worth it, HELL YES. But it aint about the money. I could have made nearly as much as I have averaged over the last 8 years working for somebody else (provided I was paid on production) and not had all the headaches of ownership and administration. In the end, it was about building something that I could be proud of. It was about having employees tell me that I am the best boss they have ever worked with. It was about being able to decide how much I could give back to my community. It was about being the king in my own little fiefdom. End of sermon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So as I stated above... NO way to answer that without first knowing: Specialty Location Population Medical Experience Business Experience Debt load Competition in community Opposition in local medical community to NPP "owning" a practice Benevolence of Physician "employee" Local Realty market State Business & Income taxes etc. Toooo many variables for someone to get on here and give you a hard number without knowing the above. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.