andersenpa Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 from Advance: "How do NPs and PAs get information and learn?" http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/Archives/Article-Archives/How-do-NPs-and-PAs-get-information-and-learn.aspx The comparison between NP and PA practice style fascinates me- primarily in how similar I think they are, despite the differences that are prescribed to them (from outside AND within). This article highlights the self described differences in PA and NP learning style/sources. I wonder if the answers that are given are truly describing different things, or similar things which are perceived as different. The article seems to highlight the supposition that the way we present information to our patients determines their feedback. E.g., for most common patient question: PA- treatment guideline questions NP- holistic health, risk factors, quality of life A short, worthwhile read.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Nurses and doctors don't look at patients the same. Nurses seek to help/facilitate the patient through a disease process. Doctors seek to cure patients of the disease (process). The outcome is the "same", but the two roads to reach that destination are not the same. I think PAs and NPs follow the examples in the first paragraph above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Nurses and doctors don't look at patients the same. Nurses seek to help/facilitate the patient through a disease process. Doctors seek to cure patients of the disease (process). If by nurses you mean nurse practitioners, then I don't agree. This is dismissive of the clinical skills of NPs and the patient centered care delivered by PAs. When I am taking care of a patient after cardiac surgery, I am not simply operating or treating an a la carte menu of problems- hypotension, heart failure, anemia, pain, etc. The management of any (surgery) patient requires an understanding of their preop status and how we can improve their health/QOL and get them back to where they where they were before their disease impact. This incorporates psychosocial factors that we have to understand, as it impacts the patient and our planned therapies. There's nothing more holsitic than that. Nurses don't have a monopoly on patient centered care. And the implication (or outright statement) is that they do, in contrast to medical model providers. Conversely, NPs manage the same disease states that we do and are equally as successful. They are no more facilitating than we are. It seems like an unecessary distinction. BTW you were great in Family Ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Forums are a great place to exchange ideas. Family Ties--aw, that brings back so many wonderful memories. I love PAs. I love being a PA. By the way I have nothing against NPs. Having worked with many nurses, I see a reflection in the NP philosophy. But, that's just my opinion. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 What do you mean by a reflection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I just returned from jogging. I had some time to think through my explanation, hopefully. I think PAs are more "total-patient-oriented" than most MDs. I think PAs are practioners, period. I think NPs are nurses, first, and then practioners. It is difficult, if not impossible, to leave that paradigm/mentality behind. I think if a nurse becomes a PA, he/she is still a nurse first, and then a practioner. I think there is an overlap or a point where the methods cross each other. That is why PAs and NPs have many similarities. I am NOT saying it is good or bad. I am just saying nurses think different than doctors, and that difference is reflected (manifested or shown) in how PAs and NFs approach medicine. I am all for NPs. I have nothing against them. They just think differently than we PAs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alleycat Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 hmm. do you think the different thinking patterns are inherent in personality?? or trained into individuals by their choice of nursing programs (as all APNs do first), or into PA programs?? just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 I just returned from jogging. I had some time to think through my explanation, hopefully. I think PAs are more "total-patient-oriented" than most MDs. I think PAs are practioners, period. I think NPs are nurses, first, and then practioners. It is difficult, if not impossible, to leave that paradigm/mentality behind. I think if a nurse becomes a PA, he/she is still a nurse first, and then a practioner. I think there is an overlap or a point where the methods cross each other. That is why PAs and NPs have many similarities. I am NOT saying it is good or bad. I am just saying nurses think different than doctors, and that difference is reflected (manifested or shown) in how PAs and NFs approach medicine. I am all for NPs. I have nothing against them. They just think differently than we PAs do. The question is- what is the unique feature of how nurses "think" compared to PA/MD. If it's how they view the patient in totality and treat the disease and it's effects, then I say there is no difference between nurses and PA/MD in that respect. Again, an unecessary distinction which has been drawns by advocates of nursing theory.... and has now permeated the culture of medicine as some sort of urban legend which people still believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 hmm. do you think the different thinking patterns are inherent in personality?? or trained into individuals by their choice of nursing programs (as all APNs do first), or into PA programs?? just curious. Nursing trains with a concept of nursing theory which promotes holistic treatment, in contrast to the medical model we PAs are trained in. E.g., "to meet the physical, emotional, intellectual, social, and spiritual needs of the client and family" It is appropriate and noble to treat in this manner, but to define a profession on the implication that only nurses provide care in this way is territorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browndog Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I am an NP who was a nurse. I do not think like a nurse, I think like a provider. I drove to another state to attend NP school because I did not want to be another clipboard nurse. My first day of NP school, the program director shut the door and told the entering class that although we were enrolled in a masters program in the school of nursing....we had better place the concept of nursing practice, nursing theory, and nursing interventions in the rearview mirror. He said that we would be expected to produce as medical providers if we were to have any value to our employers. He got it. Even with all of that said; I still felt that NP school was too watered down. My point is....not all NPs think the same. There are a more than just a few of us who think within the medical model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Is the only difference between PAs and NPs territorial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejfox Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I see there is already another thread on NPs vs PAs. So, I will stop further comments here. I just noticed it today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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