GatorRRT Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I like to occasionally skim through some of these narratives to "size up" my competition when I'm bored......real bored. Is it just me or do 95% of these personal statements sound like they're restating a resume? Of course don't forget to include you want to help people and serve underprivileged populations! Seems like this board is full of Mother Teresa types....or maybe I'm just jaded already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I would say 95% of the PSs I've read make the author sound incredibly boring. I just don't understand how people underutilize their one shot to really tell the adcoms about themselves. I didn't brag, but I made a big effort to write something that would be both interesting and informative. To be fair, I assume most people who apply to PA school have a science background rather than a creative/English one. So maybe students just don't know how to write in a captivating way. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 Personally, I'd rather read an essay based on an experience that alludes to the qualities you feel would make you a great PA, vs reading the often used list of adjectives seen in most of these narratives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted August 20, 2011 Author Share Posted August 20, 2011 I centered mine on an experience that pushed me towards the PA profession, figured it was better than, "Mama always said sputum is as sputum does...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 20, 2011 Administrator Share Posted August 20, 2011 I labored extensively to fit my four decades of life into 3700 characters, or whatever the precise limit was at the time. Now, we have 21-25 year olds trying to fill 5000 characters, and many of them doing an absolutely terrible job of it. In many ways, I would favor a return to the shorter word limit, because it forces economical use of words. I don't buy this "science people can't write" argument. If Stephen Hawking can write, anyone here can write. (As a side note, one of the most eloquent authors I had the privilege to know had lived with CP all her life--when every keypress is a sizable effort, one gets really good at not wasting words) But I will note that the OP is correct--the personal statement should NOT be a resume. It should not, in fact, contain any specific information about anything that can fit in any other part of CASPA. By all means, make the resume parts of CASPA a resume... but make the personal statement reflect the actual decision process that led to the decision to pursue this career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Rev, I just wanted to let you know that I reported your post. I find it offensive to 21-25 year olds in the way that you insinuate that they are incapable of putting together a decent personal statement simply because of their age. If you were to put in any other "group" of people where you insert "21 - 25 year olds" you would certainly be offending a lot of people. You have made very clear where you stand on the issue of "young people" being in this profession, but I am going to start taking offense at you singling out an arbitrary age to start picking on and saying that they don't belong, they aren't good enough, or that they somehow are incapable of drawing enough life experience. You have no idea what any given 25 year old brings in terms of experience. You sure do have very strong opinions of young people in the profession for someone who has not practiced medicine yet. If I have somehow misinterpreted your post then I apologize in advance for the misinterpretation. But given your previous posts about the issue, I feel like I am reading this the way you intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 If you find these PS's to be silly and pedestrian and you believe that your ability is far superior, then you should feel great confidence that you will rise to the top like fine cream. Or you could be consumed with the realization that schools are accepting these people who are writing what you find to be substandard letters and that perhaps PA school has lower standards than you thought. Is it time to re think your current direction in this line of work? Or do you resist the urge to be sucked into what is really a tiny miniscule slice of the big picture? With around 150 schools, 350 applicants per school, that's 52,500 letters being written. While this forum is active and has the advantage of longevity, the majority of PAs and PA applicants have never heard of this forum or have the desire to partake in it. Forums attract a certain subset of culture. All of us here have more in common than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 22, 2011 Administrator Share Posted August 22, 2011 Rev, I just wanted to let you know that I reported your post. I find it offensive to 21-25 year olds in the way that you insinuate that they are incapable of putting together a decent personal statement simply because of their age. If you were to put in any other "group" of people where you insert "21 - 25 year olds" you would certainly be offending a lot of people. You have made very clear where you stand on the issue of "young people" being in this profession, but I am going to start taking offense at you singling out an arbitrary age to start picking on and saying that they don't belong, they aren't good enough, or that they somehow are incapable of drawing enough life experience. You have no idea what any given 25 year old brings in terms of experience. You sure do have very strong opinions of young people in the profession for someone who has not practiced medicine yet. If I have somehow misinterpreted your post then I apologize in advance for the misinterpretation. But given your previous posts about the issue, I feel like I am reading this the way you intended. Congratulations on completely missing my point. Let's start with some basic math: 40 > 25. 40 is, in fact, 160% of 25 But that's not really representative, is it? Because while there are key experiences in formative years, let's discount the first ten years of life in order to account for the broader set of relevant and inclusion-worthy experiences that happen in adulthood: (40-10) > (25-10), which reduces to 30 being greater than 15, twice as much, in fact, which feels about right. But the PS length doesn't take any of that into account, does it? It's now 5K characters for everyone, regardless of your age. So an average 40 year old is going to have twice as much content to put into that statement as a 25 year old. Assuming both fill up their 5K characters with their best efforts and they are equally skilled as writers, who looks better? On average, it's going to be the 40 year old by a long shot. Now, consider that I had to shoehorn my life into a word limit roughly 2/3rds of what the current length is. Continuing on with the math, (1/2 times 2/3rds) that would make a current 25 year old's essay about 1/3 as content-dense as mine was at the time I applied. Of course, people's experiences aren't linear, writing skill isn't equal, and I've never seen a reaction actually occur at standard temperature and pressure. But we're not talking about individuals here: the OP complained about "95% of these personal statements" which is not an individual problem, but rather a systemic one. Thus, my recommendation to everyone, regardless of age or actual experience level, is to hit 'em hard with the best you've got, and then shut up. I think I heard it first from an older Public Speaking course: Stand up, speak up, and shut up. There is no need to blather on for 5000 characters if you have a great, concise, hard-hitting statement that only takes up 4000. Far from criticizing the 21-25 year olds, I think they're placed at a disadvantage by giving them enough room to demonstrate that they've run out of things to write about. PS, thanks for being up front about reporting the post. I don't think that's what the function is meant for, and I doubt the moderators will remove either post, but I appreciate the fact that you thought it appropriate to directly communicate your objection in a professional manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The fact is is that rev does not specify people with lesser experience. He specifies a specific age group and has done so multiple times. If this were done with any given minority then it would certainly raise more eyebrows. The fact that he is making diceiminatory remarks against an age group should not go unreported. Yes age CAN correlate with wisdom. But it shouldnt be used as a discriminating factor any more than skin color or gender. Each should be judged by their own merits. And yes, I am sincerely apologetic IF I have misinterpreted his statements. My apology is not BS in that I am conscience of the fact that often times things get misinterpreted on forums. I am aware of the fact that I may be at fault here by my misinterpretation of his intent. If, however I am interpreting his statements correctly then it isn't mere offense I am defending myself against. It is persistAnt discriminatory remarks that are just as offensive as if I said certain races don't belong in the profession based on stereotypes and assumptions. Disagreements are one thing. Agism is another. And Im in my thirties btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I DON'T READ THESE ESSAYS so take it with a grain if salt...but mktalon has a point. Age is not necessarily a direct correlate to experience. In fact I'm not sure its even the standard. There are surely just as many 40 yos with banal life experiences as there are kick a$$ 25 yos...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 22, 2011 Administrator Share Posted August 22, 2011 Age is not necessarily a direct correlate to experience. In fact I'm not sure its even the standard. There are surely just as many 40 yos with banal life experiences as there are kick a$$ 25 yos...... Sure there are, which is why I'm talking in generalities, just like the OP was. There are plenty of exceptions, but as we age, experience accumulates, such that the average 40 year old will have a lot more to cram into a personal statement than a 25 year old, and a 50 year old more than a 40 year old, etc. Especially so if we presume that PA school applicants as a whole are a bright lot who've learned from their past experiences--I don't know anyone who has "one year of experience repeated 20 times" who has self-selected for this profession. But then, talking in generalities is getting me accused of being ageist. I suppose I could pretend that age is not corellated to life experience... but that would be pointlessly politically correct, because it is. When I take the time to point out why younger applicants need to be careful with how they use the word limit, I'm somehow being offensive by giving pointers. One can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Rev, I just wanted to let you know that I reported your post. I find it offensive to 21-25 year olds in the way that you insinuate that they are incapable of putting together a decent personal statement simply because of their age. If you were to put in any other "group" of people where you insert "21 - 25 year olds" you would certainly be offending a lot of people. You have made very clear where you stand on the issue of "young people" being in this profession, but I am going to start taking offense at you singling out an arbitrary age to start picking on and saying that they don't belong, they aren't good enough, or that they somehow are incapable of drawing enough life experience. You have no idea what any given 25 year old brings in terms of experience. You sure do have very strong opinions of young people in the profession for someone who has not practiced medicine yet. If I have somehow misinterpreted your post then I apologize in advance for the misinterpretation. But given your previous posts about the issue, I feel like I am reading this the way you intended. "Ageism" flies pretty rampant on these boards. It's just the demographics of who chooses to post here, don't take it personally ;) No matter how eloquently you word something, you cannot change the meaning behind your words Rev (no offense, you've just had several posts/threads that I've noticed all relating to age). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 22, 2011 Administrator Share Posted August 22, 2011 "Ageism" flies pretty rampant on these boards. Yep, next thing you know, we'll be stamping out the menace of people who believe that RN HCE is superior to CNA experience, or that paramedic experience is superior to EMT-B experience. After all, wouldn't want anyone's feelings to get hurt by someone pointing out uncomfortable truths. /me goes to read Harrison Bergeron again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Yep, next thing you know, we'll be stamping out the menace of people who believe that RN HCE is superior to CNA experience, or that paramedic experience is superior to EMT-B experience. After all, wouldn't want anyone's feelings to get hurt by someone pointing out uncomfortable truths. /me goes to read Harrison Bergeron again. The thing is, you are so steadfast that "life experience"-- you know, going out, partying for a few years, knocking up a chick and then marrying her and buying a house and car and that whole thing, is ALWAYS a positive that I don't thing you've ever even provided an argument to support your opinion, you just presume it is fact. How about this, let's assume that you are 20 years older than me, and we are both PAs who plan on retiring at the same age. That means that I will give 20 more years of service to the PA profession, and in those 20 years acquire a large amount of expertise and knowledge base that will reflect very highly on the profession. Looking at what is best for the profession, is it 20 years of extra experience AS A PA, or some subjective life experience that is nonquantifiable and may/may not really make a tangible difference? Previous work experience is another argument entirely, one which has been discussed to death on these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think we're all getting a little off the point. The OP was merely pointing out that a PS shouldn't be a regurgitation of a resume, but a thoughtful, well-written piece demonstrating why the author should be chosen for a PA program. I think we can all agree on that. The point that just because a person has 5000 characters doesn't mean he/she has to USE them also makes sense. Clearly, successful PAs come from all backgrounds and writing style is going to vary as with any other characteristic. I don't think anyone was trying to claim superiority for going a different route in writing his/her own PS, just stating that resume-style papers tend to be somewhat dry to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorRRT Posted August 22, 2011 Author Share Posted August 22, 2011 If you find these PS's to be silly and pedestrian and you believe that your ability is far superior, then you should feel great confidence that you will rise to the top like fine cream. Or you could be consumed with the realization that schools are accepting these people who are writing what you find to be substandard letters and that perhaps PA school has lower standards than you thought. Is it time to re think your current direction in this line of work? Or do you resist the urge to be sucked into what is really a tiny miniscule slice of the big picture? With around 150 schools, 350 applicants per school, that's 52,500 letters being written. While this forum is active and has the advantage of longevity, the majority of PAs and PA applicants have never heard of this forum or have the desire to partake in it. Forums attract a certain subset of culture. All of us here have more in common than not. I'm not trying to say the I'm Bill Shakespear here, my point is, it seems like a majority of the personal statements posted on this forum seem to follow the format of a cover letter. While not an expert, as you seem to have self proclaimed yourself by the amount of edits you post, don't you think it makes more sense to have a unique PS versus one that seems to simply restate a CASPA application? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm not trying to say the I'm Bill Shakespear here, my point is, it seems like a majority of the personal statements posted on this forum seem to follow the format of a cover letter. While not an expert, as you seem to have self proclaimed yourself by the amount of edits you post, don't you think it makes more sense to have a unique PS versus one that seems to simply restate a CASPA application? I don't think I have claimed to be an expert at anything other than spending too much time on internet forums. I have nonsensical web surfing in the bag. The advice I give is not under the title of Bill, Henry, Edward, John, Edgar or any of the other literary greats. I do lay claim to having some life experiences though, up to and including acceptance into a top PA school on my first shot. I only give my opinion on the information that the OP provides. The poster of their resumes can do with that free advice what they please. I don't mind helping out folks who seem to be trying hard and just need a little nudge. What really killed it for me though was the TON of private messages I was getting from folks asking me to review their stuff. Sometimes I wouldn't mind...other times, it was overwhelming sorting through what was generally a carbon copy of the last 10 I just read. my PS doesn't resemble any of the statements I see come across this website. And after getting to know my classmates for awhile now, I seriously doubt any of their statements resemble anything like you see on this website. And out of the 50,000 some odd letters written yearly, I bet this website sees less than 1%. I think 98% of the people who are willing to submit their PS to a website for critique all have a similar qualities about them, and that is what you are picking up on. I do agree with you. After doing several critiques I found myself repeating the same theme over and over and grew a bit bored with it rather quickly. People are posting up their statements without taking the time to do some research and distill out key points made in dozens of critiques already. They want a direct translation of their work. They will learn when they start to do research into evidence based medicine that sometimes a study does not translate directly to what they are trying to find out. Distillation of information will be a key factor in their success. I guess my non literary expert opinion on your post was that I think what you are reading here is a microscopic sampling of what is happening in the big picture. You can obsess over the negative aspects of all of them or you can lend them a hand to the best of your desire/ability/time/energy. I opt for the latter. As Contarian loves to say, your mileage may vary. I wonder where Student PA wandered off to...they were going at the advice column pretty hot and heavy for a bit as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Sure there are, which is why I'm talking in generalities, just like the OP was. There are plenty of exceptions, but as we age, experience accumulates, such that the average 40 year old will have a lot more to cram into a personal statement than a 25 year old, and a 50 year old more than a 40 year old, etc. Especially so if we presume that PA school applicants as a whole are a bright lot who've learned from their past experiences--I don't know anyone who has "one year of experience repeated 20 times" who has self-selected for this profession. But then, talking in generalities is getting me accused of being ageist. I suppose I could pretend that age is not corellated to life experience... but that would be pointlessly politically correct, because it is. When I take the time to point out why younger applicants need to be careful with how they use the word limit, I'm somehow being offensive by giving pointers. One can't win. I don't think its as discrminatory as that....but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the 10-15 yrs you cite mean as much as they do....even outside of the exceptions. Talking about a good mix in each age group. The older applicant most certainly MAY have one year of experience times 10, 15, 20. Its probably best not to generalize any group based on age.....old or young. Adcomms have to look at it trough that lens. I take younger PA students and shadows all the time and they impress with their experiences and perspectives. You're right that the applicant should not use filler for an essay....but likely wrong that one age group is more likely to than another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 22, 2011 Administrator Share Posted August 22, 2011 The older applicant most certainly MAY have one year of experience times 10, 15, 20. That's one generalization I'll stick by unapologetically. Chatting with over 100 applicants between 6 interviews where I was a participant, 2 open houses, and 2 interviews where I was a student host, I have never seen any PA school applicant who made it to the interview stage who had "one year of experience times X". All the competitive applicants of whatever age are type-A people who don't sit still in a job, but are constantly learning and educating themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sastacey7 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Wondering which programs have only 350 applicants on average? All of the ones that I looked into had 700+... I do notice the same trend. This is why, against the advice of others on the forum, I stayed with my essay, which some felt was too personal and not related to the profession enough. I didn't feel that I needed to restate my shadowing experience or give details of it (I simply mentioned it in one sentence) or explain my GPA... I answered the prompt, very honestly. I decided that if that was too personal, well....I would find out. I didn't want to sound like everyone else and say the same expected things. I am NOT like everyone else, though many of us share some characteristics, and I wanted the adcom to have a small glimpse at who I am in hopes that they would want to get to know me better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehemby Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 l.a.lewis. I am brand new to this forum, as of about 30 minutes ago to be exact, and in that time I have read a lot of your brutally honest but informative post. You sound well versed in the art of PA essays. Would you mind posting yours as a reference? Sincerely~Jess *I wholeheartedly agree with making that "wow" first impression but find it difficult to stay on that fine line between too candid and boring. Any advice is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoPA Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 l.a.lewis. I am brand new to this forum, as of about 30 minutes ago to be exact, and in that time I have read a lot of your brutally honest but informative post. You sound well versed in the art of PA essays. Would you mind posting yours as a reference? Sincerely~Jess *I wholeheartedly agree with making that "wow" first impression but find it difficult to stay on that fine line between too candid and boring. Any advice is appreciated. First, welcome to the forum. :) Lots of helpful advice to be found here. I wouldn't care to post my PS to a public forum since it is personal. However, I can read yours, if you'd like. A lot of the forum members have great opinions that you could potentially benefit from if you choose to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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