Contrarian Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Nope... I explained a few posts ago why I immeadiately correct ANYONE without a level of training or limited scope of practice from disrespecting those that are where they want to be... Some of it has to do with tradition, military training, and pride in the accomplishment of ALL who have recieved that "PA-C." I am PROUD of being a PA-C. I am also proud of our profession and see a need to protect it from "poseurs" ... interlopers and those that mean us harm. This is a relatively small club that we belong to and there will be NO admittance without going the proper route. Gotta "pay those dues" ... No "line-cutters"... Then once you are in... you are part of this dysfunctional family. Like all familes... there WILL be bickering and in-fighting, but we WILL take care of our own. If you and a few others that have been here for a while have noticed... MY response to you and them is MUCH different (starting the day you announced your graduation) from when you were just here posting opinions about what WE PAs did for a living. But for this to work... being a PA has to be earned through effort... to actually mean something. Being able to legally refer to oneself as a PA and enjoy the benefits of the effort to become one has to come AFTER the journey. NOT because someone simply stumbled upon a free open forum during a errant Google search or after Yahoo decided to sell our profession to the masses for a wooden nickel. The situation involving the nurses at my place of business doesn't really affect me ... except that I sit on the committee that will fire all of them... because they never challanged me because I spend MOST of my time teaching them medicine. i turn every question about one of my orders into a open book teaching session/teachable moment. I do this because I have learned that the more my nurses know... the easier my job gets... and as long as they stay within their "scope" I foster learning and respectable discussion. They were challenging the aging psych physicians who ONLY deal with psych issues. The silly part about this whole debacle was that they were openly challenging these PHYSICIANS but doing dumb $hit like holding K+ on CHF patients on large doses of Diuretics because "Their chart said they were ALLERGic TO POTASSIum"...:;;D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The point is recognizing when someone means something as disrespect and when they do not. And we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't automatically give credit to someone because they were witty enough to charm faculty and pass their PANCE ... there's a lot more to being a good provider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 The point is recognizing when someone means something as disrespect and when they do not. And we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't automatically give credit to someone because they were witty enough to charm faculty and pass their PANCE ... there's a lot more to being a good provider. Nope... The point is recognizing that it is the responsibility of BOTH the sender and reciever to ensure that the intended message is put out there in a way that ensures effective and accurate communication. While the reciever has to be approachable and can't be so sensitive that they take every message as a affront, the largest responsibility in this is on the SENDER... Our conversation in this thread has NOTHING to do with the nuanced ingredients of a "good provider" other than having a recognizable, empirically proven, and demonstrated "baseline" of medical knowledge that we can agree is the minimum required to safely practice medicine in the United States under the supervision of a physician. This is accomplished by completing a accredited PA program and passing the PANCE. Anyone who does this gets the benefit of a doubt and support from me... until they demonstrate they don't rate it. Its pretty simple for me... My Medical Practice Credibility Scale 0 %... Wanna-Be 50%-75%... PA-S 100%... PA-C Then it can only go down based upon demonstrated incompetence YMMV Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Matters of semantics are simple to me. The poster in the other thread wasn't making medical decisions, stop acting as if they were. They weren't trying to "practice medicine", for chrissake. They weren't saying they were a PA or tell anyone what to do medically, they were trying to support the OP and offer their input. And yea, be sure and refer us to the AAPA book and where the staunch answer is to the ethical predicament of helping cover a patient's a$$ when their test comes up positive for controlled substances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I guess you don't read often... I'll post it as a quote so you can read it s-l-o-w-l-y... the responsibility of BOTH the sender and reciever to ensure that the intended message is put out there in a way that ensures effective and accurate communication. While the reciever has to be approachable and can't be so sensitive that they take every message as a affront, the largest responsibility in this is on the SENDER... The poster in the other thread wasn't making medical decisions, stop acting as if they were. They weren't trying to "practice medicine", for chrissake. They weren't saying they were a PA or tell anyone what to do medically, they were trying to support the OP and offer their input. Umm.. yes they were... but not what I was referring to with this: having a recognizable, empirically proven, and demonstrated "baseline" of medical knowledge that we can agree is the minimum required to safely practice medicine in the United States under the supervision of a physician. This is accomplished by completing a accredited PA program and passing the PANCE. This last was referring to your statement here: I don't automatically give credit to someone because they were witty enough to charm faculty and pass their PANCE ... there's a lot more to being a good provider. Again... One has to read, folllow the conversation and comprehend it before replying versus simply trying to argue and win... Try it... it may be helpful in your personal AND professional endeavors. :=D: Have a good night dude. Contrarian P.s... I hope that Chantix isn't giving you night-terrors or causing these delusions of wisdom. :heheh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Contrarian, you have to understand ... I was raised in the Jehovah's Witness religion and learned firsthand how to call BS. It's pretty hard to fool me, no matter how hard you try. They use similar tactics, leading all over the place away from the original point ... trying to insult in order to gain credibility ... doing anything and everything to try and 'win' a debate ... I've seen and heard it all before. No Chantix ... I used it once to quit smoking, and stayed quit because IT WORKS. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I was raised in the Jehovah's Witness religion and learned firsthand how to call BS. Thats a odd but funny contradiction Heme... You have to understand that I was raised to try to break the Jehovah's Witness's foot if stuck in my doorjamb... because I learned firsthand that ALL organized religion is BS. Trying to "fool you" isn't the objective. As neither YOU nor I would derive any benefit ... No "insults"... Its B-A-N-T-E-R Banter (noun) conversation which is amusing and not serious; tease ; joke. to speak to or address in a witty and teasing manner, Good-humored, playful conversation. To exchange mildly teasing remarks. Thanks Ventana! As for the Chantix... Glad it worked. It has always been pretty effective, just NOT recommended in folks already burdened with a psychotic disorders. Same reason we shy away from predisone and reglan in this particular sub-population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 30, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2011 To HEMEMGROUP Contrarian has way to much time on his hands and with if an expert at turning things into something different - I agree with what you are saying - I finally gave up debating him as he puts far more energy and effort into "stiring the pot" then I care to - seems very adversarial and wants to listen to himself talk/type Contrarian - go see some patients for crying out loud - posts so long they give me me reader fatigue and I really dislike the paternal attitude that you tend to take when anyone challenges you - try to keep your reply's short and to the point as otherwise reader fatigue is the real problem..... Honestly the topic is so far off teh OP post I don't know what the heck this thread is about any more - if you want to debate start your own thread as this poor OP I sure is possibly lost inthe paragraphs of replies.... And BANTER was not meant as a positive thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2305 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Jehovah's Witness and LDS never come alone to your door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 d2305- Yep... Wielding a WatchTower... Ventana- I KNOW you didn't mean to use "banter" as a positive but as hard as you wanna try... YOU just don't get to change the definition of words. I just wanted YOU to confirm that you use words YOU have no idea what their meanings are but think make you sound smart/witty. Either stick to the mono-syllabic ones or carry a dictionary. I assure you that the readers here and your patients will appreciate it... Thanks for another opportunity to engage in "B-A-N-T-E-R" Banter (noun) conversation which is amusing and not serious; tease ; joke.to speak to or address in a witty and teasing manner, Good-humored, playful conversation. To exchange mildly teasing remarks. Thanks Ventana! Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Jehovah's Witness and LDS never come alone to your door. Just answer the door naked with porn playing loudly in the background, that always charms 'em :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 30, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2011 d2305- Yep... Wielding a WatchTower... Ventana- I KNOW you didn't mean to use "banter" as a positive but as hard as you wanna try... YOU just don't get to change the definition of words. I just wanted YOU to confirm that you use words YOU have no idea what their meanings are but think make you sound smart/witty. Either stick to the mono-syllabic ones or carry a dictionary. I assure you that the readers here and your patients will appreciate it... Thanks for another opportunity to engage in "B-A-N-T-E-R" Contrarian blahh blahh blahhh (what will be the long retort for this post I wonder.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 blahh blahh blahhh (what will be the long retort for this post I wonder.....) I see you took my advice and got that dictionary out: R-E-T-O-R-T Retort Noun: A sharp, angry, or wittily incisive reply to a remark. To reply, especially to answer in a quick, caustic, or witty manner. To reply to, usually in a sharp or retaliatory way; reply in kind to. To pay or hurl back : return <retort an insult>. 2. a : to make a reply to b : to say in reply. 3. : to answer (as an argument) by a counter argument ... Pssst... keep that dictionary handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMSArtist Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Just answer the door naked with porn playing loudly in the background, that always charms 'em :D If you want to take it further, add a tinfoil hat, large dog and a jar of peanut butter to the above. Then politely state that you are a little busy now with important creative endeavors, but request that the come back later, as you might need their help with some particularly difficult maneuvers... give them a time frame of about half an hour. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 30, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 30, 2011 I see you took my advice and got that dictionary out: R-E-T-O-R-T Pssst... keep that dictionary handy. could not have proved my point any better myself.... thanks for being you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 To the OP...what would I say? In a private moment, I would politely tell her that while she may not intend disrespect, the message is disrespectful. While she is entitled to her opinion, sometimes it is best to maintain some level of restraint when tempted to share it. Much like how a wise husband or thoughtful wife will bite their tongue in an effort to keep harmony in a marriage, sometimes it is best for co workers to keep non essential comments to themselves to help ensure a good working relationship. If they can read between the lines, perhaps they will pick up on the scent that there are nuances of how she performs her job that you simply let slide rather than nitpick. However, in the big picture, I have a feeling you pull more weight regarding her employment with the company than she has of yours. If job neglect or property destruction comes into play...MAs are a dime a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 1, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 1, 2011 Its B-A-N-T-E-R Banter (noun) conversation which is amusing and not serious; tease ; joke. to speak to or address in a witty and teasing manner, Good-humored, playful conversation. To exchange mildly teasing remarks. . or if YOU read a LITTLE FURTHER - and did not JUST LATCH ONTO THE FIRST INTERNET SEARCH —Synonyms 1. badinage, joking, jesting, pleasantry, persiflage. 2. tease, twit; ridicule, deride, mock. I in no way meant it as a positive, yes I too can search the internet and play the word game. I have too many patients to see, and life is to busy to get for ever tied up with a rant, listening to contrarian preach and tell eveyone else how worthless they are. Contrarian - you have some excellent points and perspective - unfortunately your delivery is less then ideal and comes across as very preaching and the CAPS and big letters/fonts is just insulting - I always feel like you have a drum to bang on, a pulpit to preach "how great you are" and how someone with out your credentials could not possibly have a valid point - just tired of such close mindeness and frankly rudeness.... it is only my opinion but my opinion none the less that you "preach more then teach" I will be interested to see what long winded reply with bold, underlines, and big font this will get - proves my point with out me doing a thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Wow... almost 8 hrs... Take slow, controlled deep cleansing breaths... while using thumb and 1st metacarpal as a pincer to pull those panties out... :heheh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cabkrun Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Wow, I'd have a big problem with this one. Never in a million years as an MA did I ever think such a thing. Sounds like there needs to be some ego deflation. Those types are scary because they don't recognize their boundaries or scope of job, and often can end up a danger to the patient or the practice. EEK!!! I've heard similar things from MAs saying they essentially do the same thing as RNs. Um, no!! :-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Pimped the MA today; asked her what Rx a patient needed. She said, "I would assume the patient needed to be assessed first". So I said, you didn't assess her? Guess she doesn't want to do my job even though she can ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I skipped over all the back and forth above and looked for a post from someone NOT in that argument up there and then I read this.......and Im not sure what Im reading but it scares me lol If you want to take it further, add a tinfoil hat, large dog and a jar of peanut butter to the above. Then politely state that you are a little busy now with important creative endeavors, but request that the come back later, as you might need their help with some particularly difficult maneuvers... give them a time frame of about half an hour. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 you should continue to do this.....pretty soon she will realize her limitations Pimped the MA today; asked her what Rx a patient needed. She said, "I would assume the patient needed to be assessed first". So I said, you didn't assess her? Guess she doesn't want to do my job even though she can ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swooshie1 Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I would try very hard to take the high road and not bow down to her little games. The more you try to put her in her place, the more this will continue. Clearly she does mean to be disrespectful and if she feels like she's pushing your buttons she probably gets energized. Once you stop playing this game with her she'll probably give up. So, when she starts in with "no disrespect intended..." interrupt her and say "none taken" and just walk away, start talking to someone else, etc. Don't even let her continue, you can put the hand up as in "talk to the hand" or just turn your back and ignore her. When she spouts off all that she can do better just say "that's nice" or "I'm sure you could" and leave it at that. You need to stop interacting with her beyond what's required to get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittryn Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I would try very hard to take the high road and not bow down to her little games. The more you try to put her in her place, the more this will continue. Clearly she does mean to be disrespectful and if she feels like she's pushing your buttons she probably gets energized. Once you stop playing this game with her she'll probably give up. So, when she starts in with "no disrespect intended..." interrupt her and say "none taken" and just walk away, start talking to someone else, etc. Don't even let her continue, you can put the hand up as in "talk to the hand" or just turn your back and ignore her. When she spouts off all that she can do better just say "that's nice" or "I'm sure you could" and leave it at that. You need to stop interacting with her beyond what's required to get the job done. right. I've had to deal with hostile support staff before. in my case it was a resentful receptionist with a chip on her shoulder who refused to do anything to help me b/c I "wasn't a doc". one day after I asked her to fax something for me, she arrived in my cubicle and all 6 ft of her stood over me, attempting to rip me a new one and "put me in my place"...I told her to back off and said she was waaaaay out of line, then reached for the phone to call security when she continued her rant. she left, yelling over her shoulder, and I called my supervisor. we had a meeting and in this meeting she justified her position saying, "why should I do things for her when we are co-workers?". she did not want to give me any respect b/c in her mind, only a doc should get that. she was corrected by being told, "she is a licensed, clinical professional, and is to be given exactly the same support as any of the surgeons". she apologized to me and changed her 'tude. at least for awhile ;) some people hate their jobs and have attitudes of entitlement, and look to staff who have more ambiguous positions (mid-levels) to act-out their hostility. in the case of this passive-aggressive MA, I would just say, "you probably could, if you had a license. too bad you can't" and then tell her you have documentation to do. or ask her if "we" have a patient waiting? just politely blow her off and do your work. if she becomes uncooperative (stops doing her job) and is not doing her job (supporting you, a provider) as a result, discuss it with your practice or op manager. you should not have your patient flow interfered with by a balky, hostile worker. MAs can be rather easily replaced, and facilities know this. a good PA...well, those're a bit tougher to come by, and more expensive to acquire and train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 I would try very hard to take the high road and not bow down to her little games. The more you try to put her in her place, the more this will continue. Clearly she does mean to be disrespectful and if she feels like she's pushing your buttons she probably gets energized. Once you stop playing this game with her she'll probably give up. So, when she starts in with "no disrespect intended..." interrupt her and say "none taken" and just walk away, start talking to someone else, etc. Don't even let her continue, you can put the hand up as in "talk to the hand" or just turn your back and ignore her. When she spouts off all that she can do better just say "that's nice" or "I'm sure you could" and leave it at that. You need to stop interacting with her beyond what's required to get the job done. 1) I am not trying to put her in her place 2) I am not playing her game 3) I posted this to get an idea of what other PAs have experienced and how they handled it, as I'm sure this has happened to many of us 4) I don't think she will give up her opinion. I truly think that this is how she feels and it's not an attempt to manipulate me or any one else 5) answering rudeness with rudeness is not an option for me, I do have to work with this person 6) there are a lot of dynamics involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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