Guest mattmedwards Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Just blew another orgo test. I was literally pulling out my hair and crying last night over this class. Looks like I'll probably get a C, which isn't accepted at most PA schools. Hell - it isn't even accepted at our Nursing school. This class is like some kind of horrifying reality show. Started out in 2 large auditoriums and now its down to a couple dozen students. A student got his test and threw up today. For this test, the prof wanted us to memorize the following structures: All 20 Amino Acids!! NAD+ NADH All 8 B Vitamins ATP ADP A, G, C, T, U nucleotides Meaning we had to literally recall these from memory and copy the structures exactly. Zwitterions, Watson-Crick bonds, Isoelectric points of Amino Acids. We also had to know everything about DNA transcription, translation, Okazaki fragments, restriction enzymes, polymerases, ect . . . I studied like crazy for weeks for this exam but I can't seem to get all the structures straight in my head. Its just rote memory but I keep mixing up the locations of functional groups. Its been so stressful because I'm also taking a very hard upper level physiology where more than half the class has already flunked. I am also working part time and have a long commute. The sad thing is this is a required class to get in our schools nursing school and they don't accept a C. Last year they only accepted 2 students who re-took a class. AND THAT'S THE NURSING SCHOOL! I feel like my dreams are slipping away and now even my backup plan (nursing) seems out of reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medicated Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Don't feel like all is lost. How are your other grades? O-chem was the bane of my existence, so I feel ya (although what you're describing sounds like biochem to me). I'm betting there's a lot of people on these forums who had to repeat a class or two in undergrad and who still got into PA school. Hopefully they have some words of comfort or advice. ...anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLSFK Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I feel your pain. Orgo was really difficult for me too. Although that course sounds alot more like biochem than orgo. For me i had to practice drawing the structures over and over and over again until my hand would just draw them without me even thinking. As far as retaking courses go, it can turn out alright. I got a C in genetics the first time through then took it again and got an A. Everything will work out, just keep going. Aside: I didnt know pre-nurses took courses like this. It sounds more like and upper level chem course than a nursing pre-req, YIKES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLSFK Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I'm betting there's a lot of people on these forums who had to repeat a class or two in undergrad and who still got into PA school. Hopefully they have some words of comfort or advice. ...anyone? Like i said i repeated genetics and am starting at Emory in the fall. I also got a C in orgo 1 and a C+ in orgo 2. All is def not lost, keep your head up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djr02d Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ahh Orgo, I definantly remember those days! However, the concepts you mentioned we covered in Biochem. Orgo was more reactions and yes, memorizing the amino acids. As stated in the previous posts, I am sure you can retake the class and it wont keep you from your dreams. It shows dedication and the commitment to excel. How are your other stats? What helped me in O-chem was a dry erase board and acronyms! They pretty much helped through all of my chemistry, orgo, biochem, and physics classes. Made B's and A's BTW- since when did a nursing school require o-chem? ALso, is this orgo-1 or orgo-2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain1028 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Bail, take the W and try it again next semester, or finish it for the C, and retake it again next semester for the better grade. Either way, you will be re-taking this again if you want to go to PA school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHAD Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Just blew another orgo test. I was literally pulling out my hair and crying last night over this class. Looks like I'll probably get a C, which isn't accepted at most PA schools. Hell - it isn't even accepted at our Nursing school. This class is like some kind of horrifying reality show. Started out in 2 large auditoriums and now its down to a couple dozen students. A student got his test and threw up today. For this test, the prof wanted us to memorize the following structures: All 20 Amino Acids!! NAD+ NADH All 8 B Vitamins ATP ADP A, G, C, T, U nucleotides Meaning we had to literally recall these from memory and copy the structures exactly. Zwitterions, Watson-Crick bonds, Isoelectric points of Amino Acids. We also had to know everything about DNA transcription, translation, Okazaki fragments, restriction enzymes, polymerases, ect . . . I studied like crazy for weeks for this exam but I can't seem to get all the structures straight in my head. Its just rote memory but I keep mixing up the locations of functional groups. Its been so stressful because I'm also taking a very hard upper level physiology where more than half the class has already flunked. I am also working part time and have a long commute. The sad thing is this is a required class to get in our schools nursing school and they don't accept a C. Last year they only accepted 2 students who re-took a class. AND THAT'S THE NURSING SCHOOL! I feel like my dreams are slipping away and now even my backup plan (nursing) seems out of reach. that sounds like my biochem class, but do you think PA school is going to be any better? It sounds to me like this class will prepare you for it. A C won't keep you out of PA school, especially if you only have 1. I don't know of any PA program that won't accept a C for a pre-req requirement. All the programs I looked at 25+ require a C or higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvel Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I'm starting up PA school in June. I actually ended up with a W on my first try and a C on my second in Orgo 1. But after I figured out how to study for those types of classes I ended up with a B+ in Orgo 2 and then an A- in Biochem. They aren't like your average "basic science" courses and require a lot of memorization. Your class seems a lot more like biochem but it'll be very useful to get a good background in because PA school courses like biochem and pharm are probably very similar. Like I said before, if you get a C but then prove that you can do better in similar, more advanced courses you'll probably be fine. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 That definitely sounds like biochem, not organic chem at my school. Also, nursing students at my school take a fairly brief (and easy) year of chemistry that combines that very basic principles of gen chem, organic chem, and bio chem into 2 semesters. Sounds pretty brutal for the nursing students at your college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 16, 2009 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2009 dude, as mentioned many times previously, o-chem/biochem/gre are not required at a large # of excellent programs taught at every academic level(yes, you can get an entry level ms and never take these), so why kill yourself? you will never use this info again in your medical career ever. you can score a perfect score on both pance and panre without ever taking these(trust me on this). one of the reasons to become a pa and not a doc is not having to take ochem. "back in the day" if I had to take ochem I would have just gone to medschool.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 16, 2009 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2009 that sounds like my biochem class, but do you think PA school is going to be any better? pa school is much better than this...at least most of what they teach you is relevant to a career outside of research.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattmedwards Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Yeah I guess I was not prepared for the type of memorization for this class. There is still a chance I can pull off a B depending on my final on how much he curves the class, so I'm not going to take the W. The nursing school at WSU is notoriously difficult to get into. If you have a C or have retaken a pre-requisite there is essentially no chance of you getting in. I'd imagine the PA school here is even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattmedwards Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Hey thanks for the encouraging words EMEDPA! I did well in all my other pre-req's. I just got unlucky this semester with two extremely demanding professors. My ace in the hole though is getting an A in physiology this semester and getting a LOR from the prof. Apparently his LOR's are gold because he is known for having an extremely hard physiology class. I guess the point of orgo chem is to weed people out . . . and if that is the case I am getting a distinct weeded feeling. ;) dude, as mentioned many times previously, o-chem/biochem/gre are not required at a large # of excellent programs taught at every academic level(yes, you can get an entry level ms and never take these), so why kill yourself? you will never use this info again in your medical career ever. you can score a perfect score on both pance and panre without ever taking these(trust me on this).one of the reasons to become a pa and not a doc is not having to take ochem. "back in the day" if I had to take ochem I would have just gone to medschool.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 16, 2009 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2009 I guess the point of orgo chem is to weed people out . . . and if that is the case I am getting a distinct weeded feeling. ;) it's an inappropriate weed out though. I can see a+p or pathophys or microbio as a weed out class but they might as well use "ability to juggle running chain saws as a predictor of ability to pass pance" for all the good you will get out of ochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliPA Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Mattmedwards - I am feeling your pain right along with you!!! :p I am in Orgo II right now and am also really struggling - even though I got an A in Orgo I!!!! The frustrating part is that our prof just shows us reactions and mechanisms ad nauseum, and has us memorize them all....however, we never actually get around to learning any pratical applications for them though...so it all kind of seems pointless and frustrating right now.....grrrr!!!.....hang in there.....the suck is almost over! Push those electons around until they fall off the page!! hehe! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nashmyers Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I failed Gen chem one, and retook it and got a C. Taking gen chem 2 but our gen chem 2 is actually incorporated with organic chem as well. Doesn't your professor curve at all? A professor that doesn't curve on organic needs to be shot...drop out and take it somewhere else or a different teacher. People in my class last year who had the same professor had C- test averages and still ended up with an A- with recitation/lab grades AND the curve. Really depends on who you get, and trust me theres alot of things not fair about the education in schools. Because in the end, most PA schools are only going to see your transcript and look at your specific grades vs others...they wont take into account who's teacher was easier.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHAD Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 pa school is much better than this...at least most of what they teach you is relevant to a career outside of research.... I meant the work load, but yes I agree at least what you learn will be applicable and hopefully I wont sit there like a majority of my undergrad classes and think, "wow I will never use this again in my life!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot1974 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I completely agree. Take the W and move on. However, instead of retaking the same class with that proff, I would take it somewhere else or even online. There is a thread on here with a lot of the online courses that are available. You should not have to memorize the structure of all of the amino acids for a test. You should however be able to undertand the key differences between the different types of AAs. Personally, I think the C will hurt you more than a W will due to its impact on the overall and science GPA. Good luck. Bail, take the W and try it again next semester, or finish it for the C, and retake it again next semester for the better grade. Either way, you will be re-taking this again if you want to go to PA school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen0508 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 dude, as mentioned many times previously, o-chem/biochem/gre are not required at a large # of excellent programs taught at every academic level(yes, you can get an entry level ms and never take these), so why kill yourself? you will never use this info again in your medical career ever. you can score a perfect score on both pance and panre without ever taking these(trust me on this).one of the reasons to become a pa and not a doc is not having to take ochem. "back in the day" if I had to take ochem I would have just gone to medschool.... ochem is pretty useless but ill have to disagree about biochem.....it teaches ya how the body regulates its metabolism on a cellular/whole body level...pretty important info dont ya think? but you have look at the "whole picture" (not just memorizing the stupid steps and enzymes) to gain from the class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 17, 2009 Moderator Share Posted April 17, 2009 ill have to disagree about biochem.....it teaches ya how the body regulates its metabolism on a cellular/whole body level...pretty important info dont ya think? but you have look at the "whole picture" (not just memorizing the stupid steps and enzymes) to gain from the class... what is actually relevant they will teach you in pa school. biochem concepts are woven into the structure of the program without it being a separate course, for example important enzymes are discussed in the physiology and clinical medicine courses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen0508 Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 well i guess ill be a small step ahead then :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 it's an inappropriate weed out though. I can see a+p or pathophys or microbio as a weed out class but they might as well use "ability to juggle running chain saws as a predictor of ability to pass pance" for all the good you will get out of ochem. I found organic chem to be somewhat interesting and could definitely apply it to various scenarios; it is especially useful as a pre-req to biochem. If med schools view it as an important course, one important enough to be included on the MCAT, why do you feel that it is useless for pre-PA students? Deciding if you want to take the PA route over the MD route shouldn't be based on whether or not you have to take organic chemistry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mattmedwards Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Yes the nursing track here is definitely tough. Michigan has a very high unemployment rate so the waiting list to get into nursing school here is very long. That is why they can afford to be so selective. I decided I made it this far and there is a small chance I may get a B in the class, so I'm going to stay the course. The prof does curve - but not much. If I need to re-take it, I will do some research on the professors first. My problem is NOT that I don't understand the reactions or the concepts in biochem. Its just that my prof is obsessed with us memorizing structures. My brain simply does not work like this. I made posters, flash cards, did group study, ect . . . but when I get to the test, I will always flip a hydroxyl group around or something. My TA even said its ridiculous. She is getting her Phd in biochem and she doesn't even have these molecules memorized. I just have to see this as one class amongst many and one factor in my overall application. Hell, I have talked to a number of doctors who got a C in orgo/biochem and still got into med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 17, 2009 Moderator Share Posted April 17, 2009 I found organic chem to be somewhat interesting and could definitely apply it to various scenarios; it is especially useful as a pre-req to biochem. If med schools view it as an important course, one important enough to be included on the MCAT, why do you feel that it is useless for pre-PA students? . the mcat is a weed out exam. it's like the gre for certain pa schools. studies have shown there is no correlation between mcat scores and success as a physician. the only thing the mcat predicts is ability to pass usmle step 1 and it has no relevance at all to step 2 or 3, the clinical exams. I don't believe you will find ochem on the usmle and I know it's not on pance or panre, tests which measure your suitability to practice medicine, as opposed to your ability to do drug research, something o-chem is relevant to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acozadd Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 the mcat is a weed out exam. it's like the gre for certain pa schools. studies have shown there is no correlation between mcat scores and success as a physician. the only thing the mcat predicts is ability to pass usmle step 1 and it has no relevance at all to step 2 or 3, the clinical exams.I don't believe you will find ochem on the usmle and I know it's not on pance or panre, tests which measure your suitability to practice medicine, as opposed to your ability to do drug research, something o-chem is relevant to.... I'll agree that it is most useful in pharacological settings, but it isn't a bad idea for PAs or MDs to at least have a primative understanding of the activity of drugs at the molecular level beyond -- you take the antibiotic and BAM! infections gone -- or even -- you take the antibiotic and its binds some receptor thingy that makes the cell more permeable to water... Is it absolutely necessary to know? no. But it does help weed students out, and when you listen to pharm reps or read primary literature, you will be all the wiser. The way I look at things, the more detail you learn something in, the more you are likely to remember the basics. Just say you are learning the steps of glycolysis, kreb cycle, etc.. if you just memorize glucose to pyruvate blah blah you are likely to forget some of the steps along the way down the road. If you are forced to remember all the steps with the enzymes, etc. You probably wont remember all the enzymes, but the basics will be drilled into your head forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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