Klgoodma Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm really in need of some advice. I've been offered a job at the derm office where I'm currently finishing up my final rotation. They offered me a "training period" of about a year, where the first 3 months I do some medical assisting for $18/hr, then for the next 6 months I'm given more responsibilities for $25/hr (all while I am being trained in dermatology). Then after a year, I can start to see my own patients at a base salary of $70,000. They told me I can start making a lot of money very quickly, depending on how many patients I see. It's a very high volume practice, and I trust my preceptor (who is a PA and talked the doctors into giving me a chance for this job). One of the doctors assured me it wouldn't be long before I was making about $100,000. Do any of you feel this is unfair, or is this typical of a training period in dermatology? I love derm and am willing to accept less than what an experienced PA would make, but am I being taken advantage of here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradtPA Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 More fair is a salary of $70,000 while training, which is far below the national starting average in the first place, followed up by a production increase after the year is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted June 11, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 11, 2011 70k to start and no medical assistant role and that's fair. Otherwise skip it and get a job that doesn't treat you like a medical asst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayla2013 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 after all the money you put to be trained as a PA i dont see how its worth it to go 10 steps back into a MA role... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Run away, run away.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I have to agree with the others... I can see 70K a year while training and no medical assisting (exactly what would that entail?). I would recommend that you get everything in writing, and that there is a specific time frame in which you are going to get pay increases. If you let yourself be treated as anything other than what you are-- an educated medical provider-- then that's how they are going to treat you. Plus it will be confusing for the patients if one day you are taking their vitals and the next you are diagnosing and treating their conditions. A year is a long time to be in training... it should be more like a month, then they let you have your own patients, and you learn more as you go, consulting with your SPs as needed. All in all, it doesn't sound like a PA friendly place. Just my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klgoodma Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 well, it's not just a role as an MA...I would help with surgeries and perform biopsies and everything else I've done as a student there. The reason I'm considering taking it is because my preceptor there is a PA, and she told me that a PA they hired last year (who was already an established ortho and ER PA) had to do a similar 1 year training. The people at this office are very PA friendly, they already have 3 established PA's. And they really love to teach here. Also, another reason I may take it is because I've applied to several derm jobs already and haven't gotten anywhere. Do you really think it's such a bad thing if they're teaching me well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swennerb Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I agree derm is a very hard field to get into, but even if you love derm....that is ALOT to ask. I had a derm offer for 70k to start, with a 3 month training period and I turned it down because they wanted me to sign a 3 year contract with no raise for those 3 years. I mean, medical assisting? Nothing against medical assistants,...but your not one!!! Why should you work as one? Sounds tottally degrading, and it will feel degrading Im sure. Top that off with a huge cut in pay~ ouch. If the other PA had to beg them to give you a shot at the job, sounds like they dont really want you. I doubt there is any thing worse than working at a practice with doctors who do not respect you, value you as a PA, or want you there. Go work somewhere that will "show you the money", not that its all about money- but those derms are making well over 6 figures! Theres no need to be cheap and de value hardworking, intelligient people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATCLATEMTB Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I'm nearing the end of my program and looking up at a mountain of debt....I imagine you are in the same boat. Have you done the math on the offer? For 9 months of work (using their offer), assuming 40 hours a week you would bring home $32,640 BEFORE taxes. It appears that you are in NY, and depending on the area taxes which could significantly reduce your take home. Now at an annual salary of $70K at 9 months would be $52.5K again prior to tax. I'd hope 70K is low for even new grad derm, however its an ok place to compare. That's a $20K difference between the two situations, a pretty high opportunity cost. Now lets compare a similar situations, low pay but education...a residency. Your offer is NOT a residency program where the pay is less, but the education and skills can potentially pay off. Not to mention, if you complete the residency you will always have that certificate of completion on your resume. Which is a horse of a different color compared to 3 months of super-duper MA (PA-C) and 6 months of diet-PA-C, followed by 3 months that you did not specify...and voila at the end of the year you are a PA-C with crappy experience and no fancy certificate or resume booster. Just take a hard look at the opportunity cost, not to mention can you really make your ends meet on that income schedule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 well, it's not just a role as an MA...I would help with surgeries and perform biopsies and everything else I've done as a student there. The reason I'm considering taking it is because my preceptor there is a PA, and she told me that a PA they hired last year (who was already an established ortho and ER PA) had to do a similar 1 year training. The people at this office are very PA friendly, they already have 3 established PA's. And they really love to teach here. Also, another reason I may take it is because I've applied to several derm jobs already and haven't gotten anywhere. Do you really think it's such a bad thing if they're teaching me well? This makes the story even more disappointing. Honestly I wish you'd ask this PA preceptor of yours to come on this forum and explain just what the hell he/she is thinking making a job offer like this. It's disgusting....and demeaning to PAs. You finished school and training. You'll be a PA....NOT an MA. You'd be setting yourself and other PAs back by taking an offer like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Klgoodma, I made a mistake going for a job right out similar to this. The sugar of actually working for money wears off real quick when you feel you are being used. Burnout, and a totally PO view of the profession can happen. Some sort of contract is important too. There are states where the employer can dump you for no reason unless you have a contract. It would really be a real bummer to get fired after 6 months because another PA comes along with 4-5 years of derm experience and takes your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klgoodma Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Thanks everyone for the advice. At first I was just ignoring my gut feeling on this, but I think now it's clear it's a bad idea. Looks like I'm back to square one on the job search. Thanks again, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crieman Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 You could do better. They sound like they are taking advantage. Besides, as a new practitioner, you should be practicing PA skills and not MA skills in my opinion. And, I'm sorry, but the next step of $25/hr for 6 months is less than RN's make! You could find a job that would pay you the $70,000 to start out with. How much will you have in student loans? Hopefully none, but if you do like most, you will need to make the kind of money you trained professionally to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COTA for now Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 How long will it take for you to take PANCE and get your state license, and anything else you need? As devil's advocate, the MA thing might not be them trying to take an advantage, but rather give you a job earning *something* right off the bat. I can't count the laments I've read on here of folks who are in a Catch-22 of no one paying them attention cause they don't have the C after their name, but then once they have it, having months after graduation of no income. Perhaps you could meet with the preceptor and discuss some of the concerns raised here? I would say don't burn any bridges, especially if you don't have any other leads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myironlung Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Derm is of course a very difficult field to get into, plus you are a new grad which hurts even more. I would say take it and suck it up for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Looks like they will be preparing you after the first year to jump in and kick butt. Yeah youll make a lot less the first year, but you'll likely make over 90k the next. So say you started at 70 then moved to 80 the next yr in a diff job. That's 150 in two years. In contrast, 55 + over 90 for next year is close to 150. And i guarantee the year after that (3) you'll really bring in the dough, and the rest, as they say, is history. This is my take on the circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFarnsworth Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Derm is of course a very difficult field to get into, plus you are a new grad which hurts even more. I would say take it and suck it up for a year. I have to disagree with you. This just perpetuates the idea that PAs should take whatever job they can get and be paid or treated poorly. I've had several jobs and did not have experience in any one of them -derm included- but I got paid for learning on the job in every one of them. I have never heard of the deal that the OP is being offered and personally would not even consider taking that job. How can we achieve increased credibility as a profession if we are willing to accept this kind of treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 With the amount of debt Im going to graduate with I wouldnt consider something like this...hell you could get paid more doing the PostGrad training program for derm....how about you suggest that they meet the standards and pay for that program AND THEN you can talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myironlung Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I have to disagree with you. This just perpetuates the idea that PAs should take whatever job they can get and be paid or treated poorly. I've had several jobs and did not have experience in any one of them -derm included- but I got paid for learning on the job in every one of them. I have never heard of the deal that the OP is being offered and personally would not even consider taking that job. How can we achieve increased credibility as a profession if we are willing to accept this kind of treatment? I am especially saying this because its derm, and how many derm jobs open to new grads do you see? Personally I don't see many at all. And honestly, it's up to anyone what salary they accept. No one should care about hurting the field for new grad starting salary. In the real world its dog eat dog and you have to look out for yourself. If person X is ok with $70,000 then so be it, it isn't their job to look out for the good of the profession as long as they are personally ok with it. If the OP posted the position publicly I can be almost guarantee there would be a flood of people applying for that salary/situation set up and the OP would have lost that opportunity. And it's pretty common for there to be training periods, and I would assume each practice has their own way to do this. We're only talking 3 months of MA stuff then another 6 months of actual derm training. I don't think this is out of the question. Especially since it seems like the role and salary will grow immensely after that first year (which i think is the key here). Plus, as a new grad, I'm not sure how much money they could make the practice anyway in the first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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