Data on PA Students (warning- from 2007)

[andersenpa]

We often talk about student demographics but I had never seen the AAPA data. This is from 2007, so not brand new, but still covers some things we discuss here. I wonder what the newer data will show.

 

 

2007 Incoming PA Students

 

71% Female

Mean age 25.2 yrs

Mean/Median GPA 3.5

72% had previous baccalaureate

50% had bio degree

92% never served in military

43% were FT students in the 12 mos prior to entering PA school

89% “knew a PA”

54% were employed in health care in the 12 mos prior to entering PA school

 

 

Yrs of Previous HCE “regardless of patient contact”:

0- 19%

>1- 8%

1- 10%

2- 14%

3- 12%

And then it declines to single digits

 

Yrs of Previous HCE “with direct patient contact”:

0- 24%

>1- 11%

1- 13%

2- 14%

3- 10%

And then it declines to single digits

 

Students from the Northeast had fewest mean yrs of HCE

Students from the West had greatest yrs of HCE

 

Top 3 jobs for prior HCE:*

1. MA (18%)

2. EMT/medic (17%)

3. Phlebotomist (9%)

*not including those that categorized “other”, @ 40%

Most (40%) students applied to ONE program the previous yr

83% applied to PA school only one year

68% had only one accepted application (perhaps b/c so many applied to one program????)

Mean expected debt $55,321

 

Top reasons students chose their program, in order

1. Reputation

2. Location

3. Curriculum

 

Suburban practice environment was most desirable over inner city, urban, rural, Indian reservation, and “other” (meaning this region got the greatest percentage of “most desirable” responses)…..

BUT…………

79% said they were willing to practice in an underserved area

31% intended to practice in an underserved area

 

Most common influence on becoming a PA was a "PA acquaintance"

 

Top Fields for intended area of practice

1. FP/GP

2. EM

3. Gen Surg

4. Split peds/IM/OBGYN

[andersenpa]

What I found interesting was the trends we have all commented on were happening ~5 yrs ago

 

mostly female

mostly little to no experience

less of a military presence (don't know how to read that)

 

and to my surprise an expected debt lower than what most people here cite........

[Just Steve]

less of a military presence...I don't know how to read it either. I came out of a peace time military so my experience was not of the traumatic nature. I didn't associate treating a patient with some bastard trying to kill me.

 

I wonder if the corpsmen and medics in the service since 2007 have opted to take a break from medicine after seeing the horrors of war. Sure, we are going to have some folks who want to continue down the medical path but my hypothesis is that there is a greater percentage either staying in with Uncle Sam, or staying clear of medicine for awhile.

[andersenpa]

if you go back in the AAPA data from 1995-2000, the numbers:

 

95- 88

96- 88

97- 89

98- 87

99- 88

00- 89

 

BTW all the student data is here:

http://www.aapa.org/about-pas/data-and-statistics/405--new-pa-student-information

[Contrarian]

 

I wonder if the corpsmen and medics in the service since 2007 have opted to take a break from medicine after seeing the horrors of war. Sure, we are going to have some folks who want to continue down the medical path but my hypothesis is that there is a greater percentage either staying in with Uncle Sam, or staying clear of medicine for awhile.

Nope...

They have been "shut-out."

Masters degree programs require Bachelors degrees for admission consideration. Most military "Line" Medics/Corpsmen are young men... TOO busy serving/deploying to sit in humanities classes.

 

Interestingly ... this is not usually the case for young female Medics/Corpsman since there is a restriction on females in combat units.

 

If these folks had bachelors degrees... quite a few probably would NOT be medics.

 

Thing is... Military PA school USED to be a reward to/for the military medical personnel who had spent their time and paid their dues in the trenches of military medicine.

 

Degree creep eventually shut most of these folks out.

 

As to the gender trend...It follows that if the nationwide percentage of college grads are

overwhelmingly female ... then the majority of students in MASTERS programs will be female...

 

What we have heard more of is dissappointment and frustration by Special Forces Medics/Combat Medics/Corpsmen. While these guys were in tents/trucks/holes... elbow deep in someone's chest saving lives in real world situations ... the folks they have to compete with for a seat in a PA program was here on a college campus re-taking their 3rd GRE, getting their "personal" statement "group written" on a free and open forum and figuring out how to complete the least amount of "shadowing" neccesary to apply...:sad:

[Just Steve]

reminds of a story I find amusing

a coworker of mine was sitting through Medex's interview a couple of years ago...it's a group setting, three applicants, two faculty. The applicants were asked to describe a moral dilemma that they had faced in their professional lives. (pretty standard interview question, I don't think I am divulging anything cutting edge here). The applicant who answered first recounted a time when he was in charge of a fire team in the desert. They had just lost a member of their team in a firefight and the rest of the team wanted to go kicking in doors and seeking retribution. The applicant, then the team leader, had to keep his guys in check...stay the course of their mission and do the proper thing all the while suppressing his own urge to seek revenge as well.

 

After that story, my coworker was left speechless. Hard to even come close to competing when you have never been in a situation that intense.

 

Medex is holding off on going to an all Masters program for a few more years. Hopefully they can get a few more of the military folks in before they succumb to the political machine.

[Magicnubs]

Thanks for posting this data Andersen.

 

I'm surprised there are so many PA students entering programs with such little previous work experience, especially without patient contact (35% have less than a year?!).

[jesscbv]

I'm applying to MEDEX for many reasons, but in large part because of their emphasis on previous HCE. I want to be in the classroom with other people who can relate to things they've seen before and who can help me in areas where I have less experience. I'm young, and only have 4 years HCE, so when I first considered applying, their minimum requirement of 2 years seemed like a barrier. But within this last year especially, I've been exposed to so many things on the job and while volunteering that I've really begun to understand and appreciate the importance of "having been there."

I volunteer at the Red Cross with a couple of people who are working on finishing up BS degrees with the intention of applying immediately to some East Coast PA schools that don't require HCE. While working up patients on the first aid team, they are tentative about interacting with patients and have difficulty in recognizing some serious (Read: MI, brain trauma) symptoms. These volunteers are VERY intelligent and HIGHLY motivated, but I think they would very much benefit from working within the field for a couple of years to develope better confidence and understanding. Not to say that they won't make good PAs, but I think they would be BETTER with the extra experience under their belts.

[Contrarian]

71% Female

Mean age 25.2 yrs

 

Mostly YOUNG females

Mostly little to no experience

 

 

Which may have something to do with the evolving perception that our consumers (young male physicians) are developing of us PAs and why offers like this and situations like this "seem" to be becoming more frequent.

 

Not that I think it is right, fair, or appropriate... and I ain't "hatin" on females, but FACT is... historically, salaries/renumeration/compensation and prestige typically declines in every profession that becomes "feminized" in EVERY society globally. The fact that its primarily well established as a women's profession may account for the NP salaries that are generally lower across the board. Now that we are well on our way in the same direction... why should we not expect the same for our profession as we approach 75% young female ...???

 

The female to female dynamic may also contribute to the "cattiness" we often get from the NPs.

 

Just a few thoughts...

 

YMMV

 

Contrarian

[Hemegroup]

The fact that its primarily well established as a women's profession may account for the NP salaries that are generally lower across the board.

 

 

All I know is that my request for a commode with handles came back from Medi-Cal stating it had to be re-submitted with a MD's prescription!! But a NP could have ordered it just fine, apparently. I waited on hold fuming, for a good 16 minutes before I finally said 'f&ck it' and sent it over to my SP. Disgusting.

 

Veered off there a bit, sorry ...

[dm123]

At a recent PANCE/PANRE review conference, I sat at lunch with another PA who graduated > 20 years ago. We both notice a distinct swing in what appeared to be a change in admissions, at least for this northeast location. Probably 90% of 150 in attendance were recent graduates preparing for the PANCE. The vast majority were female. Of those I talked with, medical experience prior to admission was minimal. An attractive (not important except as a distraction to my learning) lady I sat beside told me there were only 3 guys out of her class of 32.

 

Caused me to wonder if PA schools are seeking younger, intelligent females or if it is a field more attractive to young, intelligent females. After reading the above posts, it seems my observations were correct. Except for the male/female ratio, I was reminded of the way medical schools select applicants.

 

Just as an interesting aside, Those sitting around me did not have a gross anatomy class. They did not do a pelvic or rectal exam during their didactic portion except on rubber dummies. These were small but important to my learning. I remember the pelvic as being a big thing to my Southern Gentleman psychy. So much so that I forgot to put gloves on. I caught much ribbing over that.

[GeneValgene]

I remember the pelvic as being a big thing to my Southern Gentleman psychy. So much so that I forgot to put gloves on. I caught much ribbing over that.

 

LOL!!! that's awesome haha

[lapelirroja]

Just as an interesting aside, Those sitting around me did not have a gross anatomy class. They did not do a pelvic or rectal exam during their didactic portion except on rubber dummies. These were small but important to my learning. I remember the pelvic as being a big thing to my Southern Gentleman psychy. So much so that I forgot to put gloves on. I caught much ribbing over that.

 

I don't know if there's supposed to be a link between changing PA student demographics and quality of teaching, but I know my class was mostly female and we had gross anatomy at Harvard Med and were taught GU exams at UMass Medical School. I think what you observed is more an issue with PA schools popping up in east @ss or in areas already overly populated with PA schools so they are unable to make meaningful connections with other institutions of higher learning.

[coloradopa]

Which may have something to do with the evolving perception that our consumers (young male physicians) are developing of us PAs and why offers like this and situations like this "seem" to be becoming more frequent.

 

Not that I think it is right, fair, or appropriate... and I ain't "hatin" on females, but FACT is... historically, salaries/renumeration/compensation and prestige typically declines in every profession that becomes "feminized" in EVERY society globally. The fact that its primarily well established as a women's profession may account for the NP salaries that are generally lower across the board. Now that we are well on our way in the same direction... why should we not expect the same for our profession as we approach 75% young female ...???

 

The female to female dynamic may also contribute to the "cattiness" we often get from the NPs.

 

Just a few thoughts...

 

YMMV

 

Contrarian

This was actually discussed at the research section of the AAPA. The discussion ranged along the lines of will the PA profession move along the lines of the NPs (and by extension nursing) or that of physicians. The physician pool has become increasingly feminine in the last 15 years (although not at the same rate as PAs). You can look at salaries, graduation rates, dropout rates any numbers of parameters. For the most part the NP data parallels the nursing data (salary increase, low graduation and high professional dropout rates). On the other hand PA data roughly parallels the physician model (in terms of graduation and professional dropout rates). The one parameter that is different is physician compensation as compared to PA compensation (although there is a business ownership component that probably accounts for the relative drop in physician salaries). While the members of the profession may female, in terms of work done there is no evidence that the profession has been "feminized".

 

The general consensus was that our training most closely resembled that of the physicians and that the work output also resembled the group we most closely work with. In comparison all NPs (in theory) come from a nursing background and carry that work output pattern.

[ohiovolffemtp]

Some data from my class: Kettering College of Medical Arts - class of 2013:

 

42 students: 30 female, 12 male

 

Most are in their 20's, perhaps 8 or so in 30's, few in their 40's, and I believe 2 in their 50's (includes me).

 

A few have served in the military, 1 as a medic. The predominant healthcare experience seems to be athletic trainer. We have 1 medic, 1 nuclear med/imaging tech. Several have served on medical missionary trips overseas.

 

For most, it's their 1st major healthcare career, and for many, their first career. I believe I'm the only "old-style" PA student as a long time medic. No RN's or LPN's, etc.