fenway68 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I am going to "turn the tables" a bit, so to speak. I am new to your forum, but have been a practicing PA for 19 years, I have a mix of EM and Hospitalist experience, the latter part of my career as a Hospitalist PA (9 years). My Department chair is finally thinking of expanding our "non-teaching" service with more PA's rather than more doc's. Our biggest issue is finding quality PA's who want to live in Southern CT; we have a high cost of living, but seem to pay on the low end compared with what I have been reading here on the boards. I digress a bit... We thought that maybe, starting our own Hospitalist PA residency may be a way to "train our own" and then try to cull the best from the graduates; we felt that the hospital may look at improving salaries, or at least be able to offer better than starting salaries to new grads who complete our training; we have a very strong teaching program that is associated with a major Medical School, and we could likely tag on their coattails and produce a well ready Hospitalist PA. Consider this a little market research. is there a demand for Hospitalist residency spots? What criteria are you all looking for in a Hospitalist residency? Would you consider a new program? Appreciate any thoughts you all who just finished or are about to finish school might have. Thanks Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 I bet you would have no problem filling 4 spots/yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 6, 2015 Administrator Share Posted July 6, 2015 The explosion of new graduates with less than traditional amounts of HCE will continue to drive folks to residencies. I echo EMED's belief that you can fill 4 slots readily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheshark89 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 You might have trouble attracting people who actually want to stay in CT however, if your salary isnt more competitive. Hospitalist service at a major academic center in CT starts their PAs at 100k (new grad) for a 40 hr work week. You are paired with an MD each week, by the end of the first year the MD and PA are usually just splitting up their patient list, rather than each seeing all the patients. Seems like a good model to get a PA ip to speed, and good mentoring, so my bet would be that students wanting to stay in the area would probably just jump at that opportunity, rather than doing a residency at 50k/yr. Just my 2 cents, but I am a CT PA student And with such learning opportunities avaliable here at a good salary, I can tell you most if not all of my classmates would prefer the job rather than a residency, regardless of how good the residency is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenway68 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 You might have trouble attracting people who actually want to stay in CT however, if your salary isnt more competitive. Hospitalist service at a major academic center in CT starts their PAs at 100k (new grad) for a 40 hr work week. You are paired with an MD each week, by the end of the first year the MD and PA are usually just splitting up their patient list, rather than each seeing all the patients. Seems like a good model to get a PA ip to speed, and good mentoring, so my bet would be that students wanting to stay in the area would probably just jump at that opportunity, rather than doing a residency at 50k/yr. Just my 2 cents, but I am a CT PA student And with such learning opportunities avaliable here at a good salary, I can tell you most if not all of my classmates would prefer the job rather than a residency, regardless of how good the residency is. Would love to know which hospital this is, if uncomfortable posting that here, please PM me. Our HR believes we are competitive and we start our new grads much lower than 100k; This is probably why we are having trouble recruiting good candidates. Please do let me know. I agree with some of what you are saying, and certainly your information of the compensation, may help us sole the root of our issue without starting a residency, but still we may wish to pursue it, especially if we can finally recruit a full contingent of quality PA's once we can pay them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 there is currently only 1 hospitalist pa residency slot/yr for PAs in the US at mayo(unless there are some new ones I don't know about). I'm sure folks would flock from all over the country to do this. don't know if they would stay after graduation though without a reasonable rate of pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenway68 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 So, I guess the answers to this OP begs the question...what is the going salaries for Hospitalist PA's, I have found the salary surveys put out by AAPA in the past to have such a low "n" that they carry no weight framer employer; they use an independent source that tells them what the ranges are and they pay 50-75th%ile they tell me; I am struggling to believe that these salaries have remained stagnant in the last 10 years! Where is the most reliable information on this. If we are going to expand me and my chair need to go back to HR with some data (accurate) of our own to counter what they are and have been telling us over the years. If a new grad makes X, what % more for 5 year, 10 year, 15 and 20 year would you expect. if what mark the shark said is true, then we are only paying 20% from bottom to top, and that just seems awful narrow a salary range! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlottew Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Also if cost is an issue, it costs money to run a residency program... and as others have pointed out, there's no guarantee your graduating resident will stay. Especially if they can make more $$ elsewhere (and with a residency credential, they will attract a premium). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 consider the avg new grad in any field makes 90k and go from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 there is currently only 1 hospitalist pa residency slot/yr for PAs in the US at mayo(unless there are some new ones I don't know about). I'm sure folks would flock from all over the country to do this. don't know if they would stay after graduation though without a reasonable rate of pay. There is also one at Carolinas Healthcare System and at the University of Missouri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DolphinsPA2 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 there is currently only 1 hospitalist pa residency slot/yr for PAs in the US at mayo(unless there are some new ones I don't know about). I'm sure folks would flock from all over the country to do this. don't know if they would stay after graduation though without a reasonable rate of pay. http://www.carolinashealthcare.org/center-for-advanced-practice-fellowshipThey have had this program for at least a year now I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplify Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 http://www.carolinashealthcare.org/center-for-advanced-practice-fellowship They have had this program for at least a year now I think. CU Denver has one also: http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicalschool/departments/medicine/GIM/ClinicalCare/HospitalMedicine/EdOps/Pages/AdvancedPracticeFellowship.aspx As for salary, Yale New Haven starts their hospitalists in the high 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenway68 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 CU Denver has one also: http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicalschool/departments/medicine/GIM/ClinicalCare/HospitalMedicine/EdOps/Pages/AdvancedPracticeFellowship.aspx As for salary, Yale New Haven starts their hospitalists in the high 80's. And tops out at...??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I fail to see how a residency is any better than on the job experience. residency requires extra hours at lower pay. how does that benefit the resident? if one does has a piece of paper that states that he is a resident, how is that any better than one with a year of on the job training? lets see some stats that residency trained PAs are superior than on the job trained PAs. lets see data before promoting a useless endeavor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrothers98 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I fail to see how a residency is any better than on the job experience. residency requires extra hours at lower pay. how does that benefit the resident? if one does has a piece of paper that states that he is a resident, how is that any better than one with a year of on the job training? lets see some stats that residency trained PAs are superior than on the job trained PAs. lets see data before promoting a useless endeavor This is a good point. Probably the same one made decades ago when EM became a specialty rather than just a 'room'. Anecdotally, we hired a residency grad in EM. A marked difference in comparison to our usual hires and was able to be up to speed sooner than usual. Not sure if this translated into more money but that is up to the individual. This is a grass roots movement and will likely translate into more monies over time for those that attend. Comparing to working full time is only apples to apples if there is not a program and clerkships in place. My anecdotal example above got to become proficient in U/S, did an eye rotation, was with the ICU for a period of his year along with the usual EM shifts. He was responsible for procedures and logging them. Participated in journal club and made presentations. All of that is much different than just working. GB PA-C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 I fail to see how a residency is any better than on the job experience. residency requires extra hours at lower pay. how does that benefit the resident? if one does has a piece of paper that states that he is a resident, how is that any better than one with a year of on the job training? lets see some stats that residency trained PAs are superior than on the job trained PAs. lets see data before promoting a useless endeavor off service rotations and protected time for procedures/learning. you could work in the er for 10 years and never learn how to place a chest tube, do a paracentesis, place a central line, do an intubation, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 There is also one at Carolinas Healthcare System(where I'm at) and at the University of Missouri/. I knew about missouri which bills their's as "acute care fellowship", kind of a hodge-podge of em, critical care, and surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheshark89 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yale new haven (more specifically northeast medical group which staffs yales hospitalist team) starts around 100k for new grad hospitalist per 2 good friends of mine who recently began working there. With overtime they can make up to 114k year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheshark89 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Dont forget though CT is high cost of living and taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenway68 Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Dont forget though CT is high cost of living and taxes Oh, I can't forget that, I am here in CT, in the county with he highest cost of living, and starting salaries about 15k lower!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I knew about missouri which bills their's as "acute care fellowship", kind of a hodge-podge of em, critical care, and surgery. That's a different one. I'm talking about this: http://medicine.missouri.edu/imed/pa-hospitalist-residency.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheshark89 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yeah 85k in CT is like 70-75k in places with an average cost of living. Per ConnAPAs salary survey the 25th percentile for any one with 0-4 yrs experience is 95k and for hospitalist is 97k, 50th is over 100k for both categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 That's a different one. I'm talking about this: http://medicine.missouri.edu/imed/pa-hospitalist-residency.html thanks for the heads up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 6, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 6, 2015 can't just be a year of work needs to TEACH and TRAIN if you can condense 5-10 years of experience into 12 months, then you can pay less then the going rate Salary is strange HR see's us a cost center, not a revenue center at most places. Due to this, and not being unionized, I think the large employers are resistant to paying a fair rate (somewhere around 120-145k per year for an experienced PA. In time this will change (I hope) as they will realize (I hope) that a new grad is not experienced..... and yes they can hire a ne grad for 76k, but that will do nothing to help the service and in fact slows it down..... My view is that ON AVERAGE for the non high paying specialties, PAs should be in the 120-150k range. IF YOU ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO PRODUCTIVITY I have seen some employers not getting their PAs to produce, and not billing, and the like and in those situations your value is far less. But if you are bringing in $300+ k per year to an institution I think you should get about 50% of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplify Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yale new haven (more specifically northeast medical group which staffs yales hospitalist team) starts around 100k for new grad hospitalist per 2 good friends of mine who recently began working there. With overtime they can make up to 114k year 1. I had heard this rumor too, but I can assure you the base salary is in the high 80's. Total compensation package is around 100K mark. I don't doubt the 114 with overtime but that is true for many jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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