ATLS for PAs

[PAstudentCanada]

I saw posts on here about how PAs can now get ATLS certified (as of 2008 I believe). I spoke with an ATLS director here at a major teaching hospital that has PAs and he told me that we may only audit. I told him that USED to be the case but now we can get physician extender certification cards (as per what I have read on here and other web-sites). So he contacted the American College of Surgeons and then sent me the following email:

 

"As for ATLS, yes, I did get a response from our contact at the American College of Surgeons in Chicago, and she says that Physician Assistants are not eligible to receive ATLS certification, either in the U.S. or in Canada. You do receive a Physician Extender certificate, but not the same full certification that a physician receives."

 

 

Is that correct? What's the deal?

 

 

[EMEDPA]

you get an atls card that says physician extender on it.

everyone besides acs considers this a certification card because you need to take the full course and pass all written and practical tests at the same level as the physicians to get it but acs says only physicians may be certified. BS.

my cv says"atls certified".

http://www.facs.org/trauma/atls/pdf/advance-febmar09.pdf

see page 2 at the bottom left. physician extender cards, NOT audit...right in their own literature....

2 times ago when I took atls they asked me after my practical exam if I considered becoming an instructor before they knew I was a pa( our name tags just had first name and specialty on them).

[Sajedr]

Agreed EMED. Audit implies you attend but do not complete/pass all of the scenario's and written testing. My CV also says ATLS certified. Noone has ever questioned it.

[PAstudentCanada]

Okay, so I just got off the phone with Danielle Haskin at ACLS. This is how I understood her:

PAs may indeed take the

exact same ATLS course as physicians and they may participate fully

(though there is also the auditing option but that is a whole

different issue). There is no difference in the course/participation

for PAs when they enroll as "physician extenders." The ACS does not

consider themselves a "certification" agency for physicians or PAs.

They simply give the card to prove successful completion of the

course. They have two types of cards, one for physician extenders (PAs

and NPs) and one for physicians. The only practical difference for a

PA taking the course vs a physician taking the course is that for

Continuing Medical Education (CME) requirements, PAs may request, in

addition to the card they get, a document called the "non-physician

certificate of attendance." The reasons for this are political and

have to do with various PA and physician CME requirement rules from

various groups including the ACS. So, as I suspected, we really were

just having some semantics issues.

 

In short, yes PAs make take ATLS, fully participating in exactly the

same was as physicians and yes, PAs get a card at the end. The only

difference between the PA card and the physician card is that the PA

card specifies "physician extender." The ACS does not formally refer

to either card as a "certification" and they made it clear to me that

their formal stance is that they do not "certify" anyone, even

physicians. They only give the course and give proof of

completion/passing in the form of the cards and the document. I

questioned her about the use of the word "certificate" in that

"non-physician certificate of attendance" and she told me that, yes,

they will "certify" that you attended but that the course is not a

"certification" in ATLS. It is basically a legal issue and is not

specific to PAs (they don't "certify" physicians in ATLS either, she

says).

[Lewitt]

You're lucky you get a card at all. I took ATLS as a medic and all I got was my confirmation letter saying I had paid and was registered (UMASS Worcester). I have a friend who teaches ATLS at a major Boston hospital and he is more than happy to give cards to PA's and NP's though I don't know if they have the "asterisk" on them. I wouldn't put a ton of stock in ATLS itself however. It's a great class and I loved being able to take it, but most high-speed Emed guys don't give it much weight. One of my mentors is fond of saying "There is alot of mythology in Medicine... and alot of it is recorded in ATLS....." You have to realize that ATLS was desgined by the American College of Surgeons to be a common language for trauma assesment and managment WORLDWIDE, meaning that doctors in Haiti or Ecuador need to be able to utilize it just as effectively as any major US teaching hospitals. They still teach the DPL for example, which you're not likely to ever see performed with the current availability of bedside ultrasound. To my mind, ATLS essentially teaches the Doc's to think like a Paramedic; primary and secondary assesments, systematic treatment, and a few specific "yes/no" algorithms. It just utilizes more toys (CT, Xray, Vent, DPL/FAST, hang blood, STAT labs, etc). The big benefit to me personally was being able to do the live tissue labs performing crics, chest tubes, dpl's and pericardialcentesis, etc. That has all gone away now however in the move to the simlab.

 

If you can get into a class, take it. It's a great experience. I woulnd't let the "asterisk" on the card influence your decision or bother you, esp if you have to pass the same tests and perform the same skills as the Doc's.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Lewitt