How many schools should I apply to?

[catlover]

Hi all,

 

I'm wondering how many programs, and specifically which tier programs I am a good fit for. My current list includes 17 programs, some of which I realize are "reach" programs, but many that I have trouble determining my chances. Here are my stats:

 

Overall gpa: 3.6

Science gpa: 3.46

~3,000hrs doing clinical research in a level one trauma center (direct contact with patients), as well as doing physiopsychological tests and assisting in MRI scans with study participants.

~400 hrs volunteering in primary care clinic gathering medical histories and trauma histories as part of a large research study.

0 hrs shadowing a PA because I work full-time while taking classes, and believe that I get a good amount of exposure to MDs, PAs, NPs, and RNs in the ED. Will it significantly hurt my application that I have not offically shadowed a PA?

 

My top choice program is one of the more popular programs that gets many applicants per cycle. I am not limited to my current location, but need to live in a metropolitan city where my husband could find work in his career field. Is 17 too many programs to apply to with these stats? I guess that I am indirectly asking everyone's favorite question - what are my chances? :)

 

Any feedback and/or advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Thank you!

[ilovelost]

Your GPA numbers look good. If I were you, my only concern would be the HCE - be very careful about what your programs will accept as patient care experience. Some programs may not accept clinical research. I would try to shadow a PA if possible, even one of those that you work alongside in the ED. Shadowing will only help you, even just a little bit. Or branch out and shadow a PA in a different specialty. 

 

17 should be enough - but I would double and triple check that they are okay with clinical research as HCE. 

[MT2PA]

Apply to all 17 if you can afford it and would be willing to go to any of them. There's no way to know which one(s) will work out.

 

I got interviews to some great programs and straight rejections from 'lower tier' programs that didn't have as many applicants. It all depends on the program and the candidates they prefer.

[ddisilvestro]

To help make your decision, the average number of programs applicants apply to is 7, increased from an average of 6 in the last application cycle. 

[SeaBird]

I second /u/iovelost's comment. Clinical research, even if you do "interact" with patients, is still an iffy source of HCE for many programs since you are not directly involved with their actual care. You do have a substantial body of hours, so I would go ahead and apply, but I would endorse applying to as many programs as financially possible to help compensate for the HCE question. Good luck!

[Monte]

With a slightly higher GPA, more shadowing and some experience as a home health aide, I applied to ten schools - two interviews and a probable acceptance is pending this week. My advice would be to eliminate the schools that specifically mention high x hours working directly with patients, they most likely want "work" experience.

 

When they ask at your interviews why you haven't shadowed a PA.. Consider how it will sound to say you were too busy. As little as 10-20 hours would mean a lot.

[Monte]

With a slightly higher GPA, more shadowing and some experience as a home health aide, I applied to ten schools - two interviews and a probable acceptance is pending this week. My advice would be to eliminate the schools that specifically mention high x hours working directly with patients, they most likely want "work" experience.

When they ask at your interviews why you haven't shadowed a PA.. Consider how it will sound to say you were too busy. As little as 10-20 hours would mean a lot.

As an update.. I was accepted so yay

[EMEDPA]

I generally recommend folks apply to 6 programs:

2 reach programs

2 solid fits

2 you would be willing to attend, but which are not your top picks.

 

don't waste anyone's time by applying to programs you don't have the prereqs or specifically required types of HCE accepted. I agree that depending on clinical research as HCE will significantly limit your options. call each and every program you are considering applying to and make sure they accept it as experience. Shadowing for someone in your position who knows what pas are and what they do is a bit silly, but many programs require X hours to apply. check those hours for each program and get the shadowing done, even if it is at your place of employment. back in the day, shadowing was not even part of the application. everyone applying to pa school knew what pas were from working beside them for years in some professional capacity. the same can not be said today with many folks going to pa school without significant prior hce. I did not one second of shadowing but worked with PAs daily for many years as an er tech and paramedic. I applied to 2 programs.

[ryanpb09]

I generally recommend folks apply to 6 programs:

2 reach programs

2 solid fits

2 you would be willing to attend, but which are not your top picks.

 

don't waste anyone's time by applying to programs you don't have the prereqs or specifically required types of HCE accepted. I agree that depending on clinical research as HCE will significantly limit your options. call each and every program you are considering applying to and make sure they accept it as experience. Shadowing for someone in your position who knows what pas are and what they do is a bit silly, but many programs require X hours to apply. check those hours for each program and get the shadowing done, even if it is at your place of employment. back in the day, shadowing was not even part of the application. everyone applying to pa school knew what pas were from working beside them for years in some professional capacity. the same can not be said today with many folks going to pa school without significant prior hce. I did not one second of shadowing but worked with PAs daily for many years as an er tech and paramedic. I applied to 2 programs.

I think EMED makes a good point. I personally applied to 6 programs with pretty similar stats (same GPA, ~3000 hrs of HCE as a medical scribe/assistant and ~400 hour of volunteer at time of application) last year and was invited to 5 interviews with multiple acceptances. I think you should be just fine and 17 programs might be a little overkill. Plus, it's not cheap to apply these days!

[Z PA-C]

With your stats, 17 is definitely a safe number of programs to apply to, perhaps a little excessive but better to have too many choices than too few in my opinion! (unless money is a significant factor). This is of course assuming that you've done your homework and those 17 programs accept your HCE.

Some of my HCE was also in clinical research, but in addition, I found it very easy to use that experience to get a job as an MA...something you might want to consider doing if you have the ability to change jobs/get a second job to make you a more well-rounded applicant. Good luck! :)

[WIPANC]

I had similar stats, applied to 8, received interviews to 6, and one waitlist to interview. Of the 4 interviews I attended, I was accepted to 3. My programs were a mix of different levels but the one I decided to go to is considered one of the top. 

[ddisilvestro]

FYI: the average amount of programs one applicant applies to is 7. 

 

[EMEDPA]

very different than back in my day applying when most folks applied to only 1-2...of course there were only 52 programs and only 2 were ms level...

[dchampigny]

In my experience, less is more....

 

 

I applied to about 14 schools....got inverviews at about 10, but only could attend 3.

 

It is difficult to see how expensive it can be to go on interviews. For example.....plane tickets, cab rides, trains, buses, dinner, lunch, hotel fees, etc etc etc. They add up VERY VERY FAST. I would say apply to less and put your money toward going to interviews..............or buying the first round of books when you get accepted!

 

good luck

[cmw8820]

I generally recommend folks apply to 6 programs:

2 reach programs

2 solid fits

2 you would be willing to attend, but which are not your top picks.

 

don't waste anyone's time by applying to programs you don't have the prereqs or specifically required types of HCE accepted. I agree that depending on clinical research as HCE will significantly limit your options. call each and every program you are considering applying to and make sure they accept it as experience. Shadowing for someone in your position who knows what pas are and what they do is a bit silly, but many programs require X hours to apply. check those hours for each program and get the shadowing done, even if it is at your place of employment. back in the day, shadowing was not even part of the application. everyone applying to pa school knew what pas were from working beside them for years in some professional capacity. the same can not be said today with many folks going to pa school without significant prior hce. I did not one second of shadowing but worked with PAs daily for many years as an er tech and paramedic. I applied to 2 programs.

 

This is excellent advice. My question is how does one categorize the schools he or she wishes to apply to? What criteria would make a school a "reach" program, versus a "solid fit" ? Sorry if this does not really make sense, if you need clarification I will try to re-word it. I only ask because reading posts in this forum about some of the schools I am interested in makes me feel as though I may have potentially picked all "reach" programs simply by the competitiveness of the programs. I would like to see if I need to re-weigh some of my options. 

[DreamingPA]

This is excellent advice. My question is how does one categorize the schools he or she wishes to apply to? What criteria would make a school a "reach" program, versus a "solid fit" ? Sorry if this does not really make sense, if you need clarification I will try to re-word it. I only ask because reading posts in this forum about some of the schools I am interested in makes me feel as though I may have potentially picked all "reach" programs simply by the competitiveness of the programs. I would like to see if I need to re-weigh some of my options. 

 

If you're from California, apply to most, if not to all, of them. UC Davis  is probably  the best one for the Cali residents, since the tuition will be the cheapest. Also, apply to some out of state, since most California schools are very competitive.

 

I am not sure about USC though. I didn't even bother applying there. They are way too expenisve and long (36 months!).  150K for a tuition ( + another 50 to 100K for cost of living in LA) is just insane. Plus, your loans compound from day one, so after three years the actual debt could be about $250 to 300K. 

[cm7sus4]

Hi all,

 

I'm wondering how many programs, and specifically which tier programs I am a good fit for. My current list includes 17 programs, some of which I realize are "reach" programs, but many that I have trouble determining my chances. Here are my stats:

 

Overall gpa: 3.6

Science gpa: 3.46

~3,000hrs doing clinical research in a level one trauma center (direct contact with patients), as well as doing physiopsychological tests and assisting in MRI scans with study participants.

~400 hrs volunteering in primary care clinic gathering medical histories and trauma histories as part of a large research study.

0 hrs shadowing a PA because I work full-time while taking classes, and believe that I get a good amount of exposure to MDs, PAs, NPs, and RNs in the ED. Will it significantly hurt my application that I have not offically shadowed a PA?

 

My top choice program is one of the more popular programs that gets many applicants per cycle. I am not limited to my current location, but need to live in a metropolitan city where my husband could find work in his career field. Is 17 too many programs to apply to with these stats? I guess that I am indirectly asking everyone's favorite question - what are my chances? :)

 

Any feedback and/or advice is greatly appreciated!

 

Thank you!

 

Here is what you need to do:

 

Go to the PAEA directory, and search every single school for respective HCE requirements.  Find the schools that closely match your HCE hours, and email every one of their admissions departments individually.  Apply to every one that responds to your inquiry positively.  You can do this in one afternoon, easily.

[EMEDPA]

This is excellent advice. My question is how does one categorize the schools he or she wishes to apply to? What criteria would make a school a "reach" program, versus a "solid fit" ? Sorry if this does not really make sense, if you need clarification I will try to re-word it. I only ask because reading posts in this forum about some of the schools I am interested in makes me feel as though I may have potentially picked all "reach" programs simply by the competitiveness of the programs. I would like to see if I need to re-weigh some of my options. 

figure out your goals and which schools match those and match your stats. figure out where you would be willing to live for 2-3 years.  If for example you want to do surgery and live in NY you might want to attend the surgical pa program at cornell. if peds is your passion, colorado peds program is probably your best bet. there are almost 200 programs now accepting everyone from folks with no experience or minimal hand-on experience(like scribes) to folks who have been medics, rns, or RTs for a decade. figure out want you want and where you fit in and apply there.

my list was 2 places, both top tier. one offered me an interview and accepted me. If I had not gotten in I would have widened my search but was fairly certain I would get in as a medic with a prior BS with a good gpa (at the time most applicants did not have a bs), and great letters of rec, one from one of the founders of the pa profession with whom I had worked as an er tech for 4 years while in college and the other from a pa who was a navy corpsman in vietnam who I also had workedf with almost daily for 4 years.

[Timon]

There's over 180 PA programs nationally. If you really want it, apply to them all. One of them is bound to accept you. =oP

[EMEDPA]

There's over 180 PA programs nationally. If you really want it, apply to them all. One of them is bound to accept you. =oP

talk about shotgunning the process...10,000 dollars in application fees not counting secondaries...:)

[DiggySRNA]

talk about shotgunning the process...10,000 dollars in application fees not counting secondaries...:)

 

Didn't someone from the forum met a woman whose daughter went on a $10,000 shopping spree on applications and still failed to get admitted? 

 

Yikes.

[EMEDPA]

I know someone who applied to 35 programs...

[rev ronin]

The stupid forum software won't let me post .XLS files, even as a moderator, but here's my rough model:

Chances of getting admitted = 1 - ( rejection fraction ^ number of schools )

 

Running the numbers with a 97% rejection percentage, one school gets you a 3% chance of admission, you break 25% at 10, and almost hit 60% after 30 schools.

Now, that's a horrible model, because there are really three types of candidates:
* Those so sterling they will get in anywhere they apply, more or less.

* Those so lacking they have no chance of getting in anywhere, yet apply regardless.

* And those of us in the middle, whose chances of getting an acceptance will indeed vary with the number of schools to which we applied.

 

... not to mention the fact that it assumes a uniform chance of acceptance or rejection across the board.  You can actually assign an arbitrary rejection percentage chance for each school and simply multiply them all together to see what numbers you get, if you're interested in that sort of detail in a toy model...

[cmw8820]

figure out your goals and which schools match those and match your stats. figure out where you would be willing to live for 2-3 years.  If for example you want to do surgery and live in NY you might want to attend the surgical pa program at cornell. if peds is your passion, colorado peds program is probably your best bet. there are almost 200 programs now accepting everyone from folks with no experience or minimal hand-on experience(like scribes) to folks who have been medics, rns, or RTs for a decade. figure out want you want and where you fit in and apply there.

my list was 2 places, both top tier. one offered me an interview and accepted me. If I had not gotten in I would have widened my search but was fairly certain I would get in as a medic with a prior BS with a good gpa (at the time most applicants did not have a bs), and great letters of rec, one from one of the founders of the pa profession with whom I had worked as an er tech for 4 years while in college and the other from a pa who was a navy corpsman in vietnam who I also had workedf with almost daily for 4 years.

 

 

Thanks! I am currently an LAT/ATC, and so my background is strongly orthopedic, which I'm considering staying in. I have also considered going the primary care route so I could potentially do the loan repayment program. I would like to explore my options though, which is why I am trying to find other specialties to shadow. This unfortunately has been easier said then done. Besides actually being exposed to the different specialities through shadowing and discussing their education background/word of mouth, how can I find what specialities different programs are known for? I've spent plenty of time on the PAEA directory as well as the actual program websites, but I feel like that's not something I've really seen advertised thus far. 

[k3l8a]

I applied to 26 programs in May 2015