JamesC Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I'm surprised there isn't more noise about this program. I guess the 12 PAs per year that are attending this program aren't visiting the forums. Had a few questions about it like how competitive it is to get a seat (especially looking at those 6 undeclared spots), if someone could pick up a few shifts on weekends to keep money flow (or if that would be total suicide), and how realistic it is to go into a non primary care residency from this program (gas,rads,em,etc. for example). At about 30k per year raw tuition a person could potentially go thru for around 100k. That seems pretty reasonable. Any experience in this program or opinions are appreciated. -JamesC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 one of our regular posters (primmadonna ) is a grad of the first class and currently an fp intern. search her posts. it has actually been discussed here quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 most are not as excited as you are. I would rather PAs further themselves professionally, and those who want to go to medical school do that instead of PA. I do not want see the PA profession become a stepping stone to MD. This type of program sends us back 30 years. I am not in favor of expansion of these types of programs. They are not necessary and do not answer the so called "doctor shortage". Which is essentially a shortage of healthcare workers in certain regions especially inner city primary care. PA's can fill many of those positions today. But people do not want to work in that situation. Does not matter how many PA or MD or combo programs you create people would rather work in a different setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 one of the issues is that many pas want to work in a rural primary care environment but can't find a doc in small town xyz to supervise them or their doc dies/retires/moves/etc. so a few options: small town hires an NP PAs get independent practice rights PA becomes an md/do and moves back to small town and opens practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesC Posted February 18, 2015 Author Share Posted February 18, 2015 one of our regular posters (primmadonna ) is a grad of the first class and currently an fp intern. search her posts. it has actually been discussed here quite a bit. Yes sir I have checked them out. I attempted to message her but unfortunately her inbox is full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 18, 2015 she checks in regularly. she will probably comment on this thread in the next day or so. James, are you ex-military? only military folks use the "sir" on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACDO Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 JamesC, message me if you want more info about APAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 it is a very, very, very rare person that is going to stop mid career and return MD school with probably loans and then return to the rural post making 120k a year. Most will write that in the admissions letter but will wind up in a higher paying position. When people on wall street playing with numbers are living the high life you better believe when I put in 50 hours a week providing healthcare for a very complex patient panel I want to be reimbursed properly. That is not greed. It is common sense. And people who can get into PA and MD school have a lot of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 19, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 19, 2015 fp docs in rural areas are making a lot more than 120k. more like 180-220k due to the broad scope of practice. many do low risk ob, scopes, vasectomies, treadmills, derm procedures, etc. as there are fewer specialists around. If I went back to med school (very unlikely at this point- I would for 2 years, no mcat) I would want to do full scope fp and do clinic + ER + OB + inpts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesC Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 she checks in regularly. she will probably comment on this thread in the next day or so. James, are you ex-military? only military folks use the "sir" on a regular basis. Former Army National Guard and they stress manners here in the south haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Sorry my mailbox is full. I rarely sign on to a desktop and haven't figured out how to clear my inbox in tapatalk. I get about 3 inquiries a week about APAP and I can't keep up lol. Look, it's not for everyone. 3 years instead of 4 was an improvement and it did save me about $50k but I'm still another $180k in debt with the atrocious student loan interest rates. To me it's worth it and I am happier. Poorer, very humble and happier. Also facing another divorce but that was likely to happen regardless of whether I went back to med school. I don't expect to settle for anything less than $150k in FM right out of residency--and that's on the low end. FM truly is the hot commodity and as long as you have a niche (mine is geriatrics) the demand is there. I have ZERO interest in OB after residency but I wanted full-spectrum training so that I would be prepared for anything and I got it. About half of my residency's graduates go into hospital medicine, the other half primary care. The variety is appealing and the sky's the limit. Folks in my class got the residency they wanted--rads, anesthesia, IM/CC, FM, EM, IM. We didn't settle. It will be interesting to see where this next class matches with the limitation for AOA residencies (we didn't have that for the inaugural class and it will soon be a non-issue with the ACGME merger) but I have high hopes for them as well. Our board scores have been categorically well above the mean and we have shown how smart PAs are. We all know that already but sadly many physicians and even worse ivory tower medical education folks don't know. Ha! I was one of the few who worked during med school. I had to financially as I was still supporting a household back in SC and student loans only go so far. Also I have needs like getting my hair done and pedicures :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfari Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 What was the avg age of your class, PrimaD? ie. were they PAs with lots of experience under their belt, or PAs who entered the work-force and thought "Whoops, I made a mistake - off to Med School!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Probably about 30, average time as a PA 6 years from a low of new grad to 11-12 years in practice (me and another guy a few years older than me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The program doesn't require a certain # of yrs as a PA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted February 19, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 19, 2015 Intern year going well prima? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eze8923 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 i'm a humbled member of this year's incoming class... hoping to follow in the steps of primadonna. don't think that i can offer much insight at this point other than about the application process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Good luck eze! ! sure is true you don't know how much there is to learn until you're in the thick of it. God bless you with this awful winter! It won't last forever I promise. 8.5 Mos down, 4.5 Mos to go of intern year. I'm looking forward to July when the new PGY1s get all the pages on call!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon, PA-C Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 one of the issues is that many pas want to work in a rural primary care environment but can't find a doc in small town xyz to supervise them or their doc dies/retires/moves/etc. so a few options: small town hires an NP PAs get independent practice rights PA becomes an md/do and moves back to small town and opens practice Meh, I don't think it is as many as you think it is. New Mexico gave 100% independence to NPs years ago, and yet despite that full independence there are only 3 rural clinics in the entire state run by NPs, meanwhile MDs still run the vast majority of them. NPs and PAs like the big cities just as much as the docs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianPA Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 It will be interesting to see where this next class matches with the limitation for AOA residencies (we didn't have that for the inaugural class and it will soon be a non-issue with the ACGME merger) but I have high hopes for them as well. Hi Primadonna, The AOA limitation has been removed. Once again free to apply to ACGME and AOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACDO Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 To anyone in APAP that can PM me: I noticed a post of a former APAP student on SDN (their mailbox is full) that they kept their privileges at a hospital in another state to work a few shifts on holidays during med school. My current gig has talked to me about doing the same. Is this feasible? are there enough off-days that I could potentially fly back and work a few shifts? It doesn't sound like there are many days off during APAP as there are no summer breaks. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 1, 2015 Moderator Share Posted April 1, 2015 PM primadonna here at the pa forum. she was in the first class and is now an FP Intern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Sorry my inbox is very full and I haven't managed to sign on to a desktop to empty it. You cannot realistically plan on any cluster of days off with any regularity. I tended to pick up shifts that other folks wanted to give up when I was home or scheduled them during holiday breaks (not many of those either). It can be done if your gig is very, very flexible but if they want you for a weekend every month no guarantees that you could do this nor want to as there will ALWAYS and invariably be another exam that needs attention looming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dregator2 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Yes I have spoken to Professor/Doctor Kauffman the reason for the lack of true excitement is mainly due to one 6 of the twelve spots being reserved for individuals who are going into primary care and secondly because many individuals who just finished a PA degree will not want to go back to school especially medschool which is reduced (3.5 instead of 4) years plus residency. Due to this the program has had a limited following especially with many people concluding that the high costs coupled with PA debt and being pushed into primary care might be part of the reason. In my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 It's actually 2.8 years (2 years, 10 months). The bad thing, in my opinion, is that you don't get summer off (which is similar to PA school). Good thing is that it's didactic mixed with clinicals, which will probably be a nice change. As for the money, their estimate is 180k for entire COA, which is pretty good. I know people that are paying double than that easily. For me, personally, the GI Bill will knock it down to about 70k total. Good deal. Then you have the specialties vs. primary care tract. Primary case included family medicine, IM (which can be used to branch into subspecialties), OBGYN, and peds). Personally, it makes sense to me to add psych to this since psych is definitely primary case-ish these days. But oh well. I digress. Then you have the pathway option, either tradition, PBL, or DSP. Traditional is all classroom. Not my style personally. PBL is meeting up a few times a week in groups to discuss a case and learn that way. Read on your own. Sounds similar to what I've been doing since PA school, which definitely works much better for me. I don't really know what DSP is. In any event, I think it's worth it. But it will be 6+ more years of school, which is a long time. I'll be 29 and, presumably, single once I have to begin seriously thinking about this. Not sure I want to waste my 30s chasing the doctor dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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