dmchick Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I am a new grad and am therefore clueless as to the art of negotiation. Just wanted to get some opinions on an offer I received from a neurosurgery position: Neurosurgery position for a trauma I teaching hospital Salary: 80K vacation: 4 wks/yr sick time: 10 days/yr holiday: 9 paid holidays/yr CME: reimburse 1 meeting/yr with 1 wk time off (no maximum $ amount) Malpractice: rider on physician's policy Dues paid: AAPA, TAPA, recert fees, DEA reimburse for text books and journals Pension: 5% based on annual salary Health insurance: 100% reimbursement for individual policy performance review annually with option for raises Schedule: 40-50 hrs/wk Call: 1 day/wk and 1 weekend/month (no trauma or ER call) I bought an AAPA salary survey which lists the national new grad neurosurgery PA salary at 81,861. Avg in my state for new grads in general is 79,021 Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I know maybe some of the other guys here will tell you to hold out for more money. But I think this is a wonderful offer, with great benefits for a newbie who really brings nada to the table. The upside for you is the training and the attendant increased responsibility as you become more adroit at neurosurg. This really is a pretty good contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain1028 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I think it is also a great offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypa Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Roger that one, you'll be in the 6 figures within 2 years. Great salary and excellent benefits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenecollins Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I think I may be the lone dissenter in this thread. While I think the offer is good, I definitely recommend negotiating at least a little. Your starting salary out of school is the biggest determinant of how much you will make over your lifetime. This is the salary that all future employers will look out when deciding what you are worth. If this is your only job offer, and you really feel like this job will be a good fit, then play don't play hard ball, but see what wiggle room you have. I would first start by stating a higher salary, 5-10% over what they are offering. If they aren't willing to budge on salary, then maybe they will offer more paid time off, more money for CMEs, whatever it is that is important to you. . . It may be worth it to talk to someone in your area who can help you with your negotiating skills. A couple of hundred bucks to consult with someone is a lot less than a couple of thousand dollars a year. During the negotiation process remain friendly and don't take anything personally. This is a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenecollins Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 And I do not think that you bring nada to the contract. You may not be a seasoned professional, but your time and knowledge are worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 18, 2011 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2011 this is a good offer - now the hard question - will the doc teach you and do you want to specialize right out of school? (only you can answer these questions) The only thing to look at is to make sure you are covered for mal insurance if you leave - very common that it is claims made insurance and you are a rider on it, when you leave you might have to buy tail coverage. Easy way around it is to put in your contract that the employer is 100% responsible for providing malpractice coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm just a student, but I read lots and lots of these OFFER threads, and from what I have seen, the "BENNIES" (benefits) are phenomenal and the pay is avg. Sounds like a great deal in a great hospital in a great specialty with great room for advancement in the not-so-distant future. Good luck in whatever you choose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crieman Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 This sounds like a great offer right out of school. Yes, average salary but a new grad isn't worth any more than that because for the first year you won't make them any money. Now, at the end of that year you have some bargaining power. I started at 80k and once they got to know me they were willing to bump me up significantly. You have to prove yourself. Keep in mind that only a very small percentage of new grads are still in their first job at the end of the first year. Employers know this so why would they throw 100k or more at a new grad just to lose them at 6-9 months. Do not take any advice from PA students on this, trust me. I say go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crieman Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 And I do not think that you bring nada to the contract. You may not be a seasoned professional, but your time and knowledge are worth something. BTW, your PA school knowledge is worth nothing to a neurosurgeon. You will be starting completely from square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurosurg PA-C Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I graduated in late June of 2010 and my first job is in Neurosurgery. Your offer seems like its right on par with what my contract is as well as other new grads in this specialty. Your surgical rotations in school will help you with the basic workings of the O.R. but you will be starting from scratch as far as becoming proficent, let alone productive in your specialty. I have been working now for about 6-7 months and still find myself learing tons everyday on all aspects of this surgical specialty. I took the position because I thought it was a fair offer for a new grad and it would give me the chance to work my tail off this first year and really become a valuable part of the practice. When my contract renewal comes up in a couple months, I will be able to command a higher salary because I will be a proven commodity with the knowledge which I now have. If you feel that you should be compensated more for your work than the presented starting salary, then by all means try to get it but I do believe that you have a fair offer in front of you. You will be at or over 6 figures within a year or two either way. Ultimately, do not let a couple of thousands of dollars be the deciding factor on whether you take this job or not. You will be probably be working long and stressful hours but you will be learning a GREAT amount of knowledge while being a healthcare provider in a highly specialized field. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Do not take any advice from PA students on this, trust me. I say go for it. I'm a student, I said it sounds like a great first job. Confused. Tsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 probably talking about poster jenecollins I'm a student, I said it sounds like a great first job. Confused. Tsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatcat Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Your starting salary out of school is the biggest determinant of how much you will make over your lifetime. This is the salary that all future employers will look out when deciding what you are worth. If this is your only job offer, and you really feel like this job will be a good fit, then play don't play hard ball, but see what wiggle room you have. I would first start by stating a higher salary, 5-10% over what they are offering. If they aren't willing to budge on salary, then maybe they will offer more paid time off, more money for CMEs, whatever it is that is important to you. . . A PA education and PANCE completion brings virtually no clinical experience to the table for negotiations. (especially surgical specialties). Certainly fair market compensation & a competitive benefits package should be expected by new graduates in the entry position. That first job out of school is going to gain all new grads some valuable experience which is golden for future negotiations. Fact is that there is a HUGE learning curve for new PAs in any practice. Once a fair market compensation package has been offered to a new grad who brings no clinical experience to the table, I would focus on such factors as the practice environment and how the job will allow you to learn and grow as a clinician. Get the clinical experience..this above all else will be the most valuable investment & negotiating skill you will have in this profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StL PA Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I too am a new grad as of December 2011 and have neurosurgery job offer that seems fair, but I have other job offers for more $$$ and feel like the hospital is low balling me (though crieman's point that new grads aren't offered 100K salaries due to the high first year job change rate is a refreshing thought). My offer is: Salary: 83K vacation: 3 wks/yr sick time: 12 days/yr holiday: 11 paid holidays/yr CME: $1500 a year to also include books/coats/dues/etc Malpractice: Covered under hospital policy Pension: 403b with 5% match Health insurance: Full medical/dental/eye with no deductible :-) Performance review annually with option for raises Schedule: 40 wk Call: optional but would "somehow" be figured into my 40 hours per week The main reason I feel low balled is a friend who graduated a year ahead of me took an intial neurosurg offer similar to mine at another local hospital and left after 8 months because she recieved an offer for well over 100K from a different group. It's hard to imagine 8 months of experience is worth an additional 25K. If any experienced neurosurgery PAs feel like helping a young pup out, I would love some insight and will probably have lots of questions if I do take the job offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StL PA Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I too am a new grad as of December 2011 and have neurosurgery job offer that seems fair, but I have other job offers for more $$$ and feel like the hospital is low balling me (though crieman's point that new grads aren't offered 100K salaries due to the high first year job change rate is a refreshing thought). My offer is: Salary: 83K vacation: 3 wks/yr sick time: 12 days/yr holiday: 11 paid holidays/yr CME: $1500 a year to also include books/coats/dues/etc Malpractice: Covered under hospital policy Pension: 403b with 5% match Health insurance: Full medical/dental/eye with no deductible :-) Performance review annually with option for raises Schedule: 40 wk Call: optional but would "somehow" be figured into my 40 hours per week The main reason I feel low balled is a friend who graduated a year ahead of me took an intial neurosurg offer similar to mine at another local hospital and left after 8 months because she recieved an offer for well over 100K from a different group. It's hard to imagine 8 months of experience is worth an additional 25K. If any experienced neurosurgery PAs feel like helping a young pup out, I would love some insight and will probably have lots of questions if I do take the job offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason09 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I am going to play devil's advocate here and bring a different opinion to the table. I am not in the neurosurg field so take this with a grain of salt. I am not going to address salary/benefits/etc. I want to address the level 1 center culture. As a student I worked in several level I trauma centers. I had great experiences in all of them and lots of learning to be had. However procedures and hands on experience are often limited as residents/fellows/med students/pa students are all hanging in the wind waiting to jump. I know there would be like 3 other people including me scrubbed into cases and what not. I bring this to attention as you may not get 1 on 1 experience, as much exposure (cases) as you think, or even be the top priority of the neurosurgeon as they have others to teach as well. Not saying this will happen it is just something to think about. I know if this was ER I would stay away as all of the 'good' procedures always get gobbled up by students/residents/etc. Will you be getting all of the scut work that the residents and attendings don't want? I don't know how they will work you into the 'team' but it is something to think about and consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason09 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I am going to play devil's advocate here and bring a different opinion to the table. I am not in the neurosurg field so take this with a grain of salt. I am not going to address salary/benefits/etc. I want to address the level 1 center culture. As a student I worked in several level I trauma centers. I had great experiences in all of them and lots of learning to be had. However procedures and hands on experience are often limited as residents/fellows/med students/pa students are all hanging in the wind waiting to jump. I know there would be like 3 other people including me scrubbed into cases and what not. I bring this to attention as you may not get 1 on 1 experience, as much exposure (cases) as you think, or even be the top priority of the neurosurgeon as they have others to teach as well. Not saying this will happen it is just something to think about. I know if this was ER I would stay away as all of the 'good' procedures always get gobbled up by students/residents/etc. Will you be getting all of the scut work that the residents and attendings don't want? I don't know how they will work you into the 'team' but it is something to think about and consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssiegelpa Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 So, I'd like to ask a question. I am actually interview with a Neurosurgeon this coming week and wondering what I should expect or hope for with regards to salary and benefits. Here is my background. 3 years family medicine right out of PA school 1.5 year Neurology (inpatient and outpatient) So, no overall surgery experience since PA school. Would I be looking at new grad salary range, or would my previous experience give me an added edge on the field and warrant a higher starting salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssiegelpa Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 So, I'd like to ask a question. I am actually interview with a Neurosurgeon this coming week and wondering what I should expect or hope for with regards to salary and benefits. Here is my background. 3 years family medicine right out of PA school 1.5 year Neurology (inpatient and outpatient) So, no overall surgery experience since PA school. Would I be looking at new grad salary range, or would my previous experience give me an added edge on the field and warrant a higher starting salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 That is a pretty darn good offer for a new grad. If they got a good orientation/training set up for you I would jump all over this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 That is a pretty darn good offer for a new grad. If they got a good orientation/training set up for you I would jump all over this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2livecrews Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It really depends on where you live and what type of hospital you are covering. I was paid about 7k more starting out but this was a private group in the suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2livecrews Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It really depends on where you live and what type of hospital you are covering. I was paid about 7k more starting out but this was a private group in the suburbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StL PA Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 When the job offer was initially presented to me, the salary range written down was 80K - 120K so with some neurology experience I would hope you'd be closer to the 90's or higher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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