Jump to content

Updated: New U.S. case (Ebola) - Mandatory Quarantines in NY,NJ & IL


Recommended Posts

  • Moderator

Three weeks of McDonald's Hot Cakes and Sausage for breakfast and pizza dinners to your hotel room door.

 

You're gonna get fat. :)

if you are in quarantine you can do push ups and sit ups all day long if you want.....:)

you can also say "no thank you" to seconds....it's worked so far. still at my high school weight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 54
  • Created
  • Last Reply

There is a completely unused brand new prison in the Thumb area of Michigan........

 

Seriously, folks, who is going to volunteer if you spend three weeks there, have to be brought back by non-commercial airline, and then (even) self-quarantine yourself with no contacts for three more weeks?  Or, an alternative, being at a "government facility" for three weeks?    None of the currently positive patients in the US have spread Ebola to anyone who is not a direct contact health care worker.  NONE.  Mr. Duncan was very sick in close contact in a small apartment with apparently 43 people..........none of them got sick.  NONE.  This is not a CDC recommended procedure.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a completely unused brand new prison in the Thumb area of Michigan........

 

Seriously, folks, who is going to volunteer if you spend three weeks there, have to be brought back by non-commercial airline, and then (even) self-quarantine yourself with no contacts for three more weeks?  Or, an alternative, being at a "government facility" for three weeks?    None of the currently positive patients in the US have spread Ebola to anyone who is not a direct contact health care worker.  NONE.  Mr. Duncan was very sick in close contact in a small apartment with apparently 43 people..........none of them got sick.  NONE.  This is not a CDC recommended procedure.  

 

Then why have any kind of quarantine at all?  Self-imposed or otherwise?  And why is the CDC even doing contact tracing if infected persons walking around on the public streets, going to public places, etc. poses no health risk?

 

The quarantine debate is not one of science and infectious disease.  It is a political debate.  This is what the CDC wrote in 2013:

 

"However, the use of quarantine and other measures for controlling epidemic diseases has always been controversial because such strategies raise political, ethical, and socioeconomic issues and require a careful balance between public interest and individual rights."

 

Notice they say nothing in regard to scientific validity of quarantine in this statement. In fact, they acknowledge that quarantines most definitely work in other parts of the article.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the sad reality of our current society. Public health issues are always politicized, even if they might not be inherently political in some other country or at some other point in history.

 

Smoking. Obesity. Immunizations. Firearms. All public health issues, all subjects many of us have learned not to touch with a ten-foot pole, for various reasons and from various angles.

 

Makes me nostalgic for the days when seat belts were seen as controversial. Not because we were smarter then as a society (we were not), but because at the time it seemed as though everything could be handled with common sense and rational discussion. Turns out, not so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a completely unused brand new prison in the Thumb area of Michigan........

 

Seriously, folks, who is going to volunteer if you spend three weeks there, have to be brought back by non-commercial airline, and then (even) self-quarantine yourself with no contacts for three more weeks?  Or, an alternative, being at a "government facility" for three weeks?    None of the currently positive patients in the US have spread Ebola to anyone who is not a direct contact health care worker.  NONE.  Mr. Duncan was very sick in close contact in a small apartment with apparently 43 people..........none of them got sick.  NONE.  This is not a CDC recommended procedure.  

 

We do not know that for sure.  Nobody has seen the girlfriend or the kids since the were put into mandatory quarantine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

I think it's responsible to stay out of the public for 3 weeks after returning from working in W. Africa with Ebola pts.

If you live alone in a house or apt, that's fine. just don't go out much and don't have people over. If you have a family, I think you have to seriously consider NOT doing your quarantine at home. I've already discussed with my family that I won't be seeing them for 3 weeks after my return if I go "out of an abundance of caution". If there is a 1% chance that I am going to get it and have one of my kids get it from me because they sneak a sip out of my orange juice glass or something the morning I get sick, that just isn't acceptable. My plan is a cheap hotel room for 3 weeks with minimal trips outside or to accept the lodging provided by the govt at their expense. I don't think a prison is appropriate, but if they wanted to commandeer a motel-6 in every major city in the country for returning medical staff, feed me and entertain me for 3 weeks I would be ok with that. I'm just not planning anything right now until the end of march(assuming a jan/feb trip + 21 day quarantine on return).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

hopefully by the time the health care response gets into full swing the accommodations and treatment will be better than an unheated tent and a granola bar:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/nyregion/nurse-in-newark-tests-negative-for-ebola.html?_r=0

this is shameful treatment of a health care worker who went out of her way to help others. if they thought she was sick, she should have been in an isolation unit/icu. if they thought she was well, she should have been provided appropriate housing and food. more stories like this and I might reconsider my trip...

Motel 6, mcdonalds, and pizza is looking pretty good right about now, isn't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hopefully by the time the health care response gets into full swing the accommodations and treatment will be better than an unheated tent and a granola bar:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/nyregion/nurse-in-newark-tests-negative-for-ebola.html?_r=0

this is shameful treatment of a health care worker who went out of her way to help others. if they thought she was sick, she should have been in an isolation unit/icu. if they thought she was well, she should have been provided appropriate housing and food. more stories like this and I might reconsider my trip...

Motel 6, mcdonalds, and pizza is looking pretty good right about now, isn't it?

 

This is....  I don't...  Oh, Lord.  Really?

 

Emed, I love you dude, and truly respect you.  But to call this shameful?  Isn't that a little over the top here?  This woman is tough enough to fly to Africa, stay in Africa, and treat Ebola patients in who knows what kinds of conditions.  She then arrives in the US, get's "smugly" looked at and "only" given a granola bar in a 7 hour period, and that is SHAMEFUL treatment????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

This is....  I don't...  Oh, Lord.  Really?

 

Emed, I love you dude, and truly respect you.  But to call this shameful?  Isn't that a little over the top here?  This woman is tough enough to fly to Africa, stay in Africa, and treat Ebola patients in who knows what kinds of conditions.  She then arrives in the US, get's "smugly" looked at and "only" given a granola bar in a 7 hour period, and that is SHAMEFUL treatment????

she was placed in an unheated tent outside the hospital in NJ in october....How about putting her in a hospital room and bringing her a warm meal from the cafeteria. they treated her like a prisoner. clearly not acceptable...it's not about how tough she is, it's about respect. unheated tent, no food, after 24 hrs in transit. let that sink in...she's a hero and is being treated like a criminal. I checked weather.com for newark, nj for yesterday. it was 50 degrees outside in that tent as she sat there wearing the typical stuff folks wear on a plane from Africa, I'm guessing a t-shirt and hiking pants. sure, she won't freeze to death but she was probably pretty miserable.

"I had spent a month watching children die, alone," she wrote. "I had witnessed human tragedy unfold before my eyes. I had tried to help when much of the world has looked on and done nothing... I sat alone in the isolation tent and thought of many colleagues who will return home to America and face the same ordeal. Will they be made to feel like criminals and prisoners?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

That's the sad reality of our current society. Public health issues are always politicized, even if they might not be inherently political in some other country or at some other point in history.

 

Smoking. Obesity. Immunizations. Firearms. All public health issues, all subjects many of us have learned not to touch with a ten-foot pole, for various reasons and from various angles.

 

Makes me nostalgic for the days when seat belts were seen as controversial. Not because we were smarter then as a society (we were not), but because at the time it seemed as though everything could be handled with common sense and rational discussion. Turns out, not so much.

You left out sex as a public health issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is....  I don't...  Oh, Lord.  Really?

 

Emed, I love you dude, and truly respect you.  But to call this shameful?  Isn't that a little over the top here?  This woman is tough enough to fly to Africa, stay in Africa, and treat Ebola patients in who knows what kinds of conditions.  She then arrives in the US, get's "smugly" looked at and "only" given a granola bar in a 7 hour period, and that is SHAMEFUL treatment????

 

Yes, it is shameful.  We treat our pedophiles & serial murderers better.  Comparing her conditions to the average day in Africa is not relevant... she's in the US now.  These people are heroes, & while being quarantined for an appropriate time period should be expected after missions such as this, they should be made comfortable & have some of the conveniences they would have in their own homes.

 

It's our government saying they want to keep the planes flying in the name of fighting Ebola in Africa.  Fine, but have a system set up to take care of those who are willing to go over there & do the hard work after they get back.  At the least they deserve to be put up somewhere where they can have 3 hots & a cot, cable tv & internet access.  If you're upset (& rightfully so) that they are coming back home on commercial flights, then look down on the government, not those coming back.

 

The president & Congress have lots of planes that they use to travel on vacation.  How about we use them & set all these heroes up for a well deserved rest at Camp David when they come back :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The real answer here is two things.

 

First, a worldwide response is needed for this health threat. The countries involved from the little I have followed, have very limited resources to handle this outbreak. This is a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link issue. Organized resources directed at the outbreak will do much to extinguish it and the potential for worsening is very real.

 

Second, there needs to be a realistic approach by US govt, nongovernment health agencies and the volunteers themselves concerning health clearance upon returning home. I intuitize that many of these volunteers pay their way to help others based upon a sense of altruism and perhaps adventure. The ability to then miss work for several more weeks amounts to a financial hit that most wont expect, nor afford. But to realistically think that true self quarantine will occur is naive. Alternatively, treating these returning individuals in a hostile manner or with inadequate resources will cause the backlash that is starting.

 

Actually, what I mean is that what is needed in this instance is one thing:

 

Leadership

 

I hope those in that position can actually fulfill the duty they have.

G Brothers PA-C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

she was placed in an unheated tent outside the hospital in NJ in october....How about putting her in a hospital room and bringing her a warm meal from the cafeteria. they treated her like a prisoner. clearly not acceptable...it's not about how tough she is, it's about respect. unheated tent, no food, after 24 hrs in transit. let that sink in...she's a hero and is being treated like a criminal. I checked weather.com for newark, nj for yesterday. it was 50 degrees outside in that tent as she sat there wearing the typical stuff folks wear on a plane from Africa, I'm guessing a t-shirt and hiking pants. sure, she won't freeze to death but she was probably pretty miserable.

"I had spent a month watching children die, alone," she wrote. "I had witnessed human tragedy unfold before my eyes. I had tried to help when much of the world has looked on and done nothing... I sat alone in the isolation tent and thought of many colleagues who will return home to America and face the same ordeal. Will they be made to feel like criminals and prisoners?"

 

There is no mention of the tent being unheated.  But look, I understand what you are saying. Do I think she was treated appropriately? No way.  I'd be upset if I were her, and she does have a right to be upset. I fully agree that those returning should not be treated like criminals, but by the tone of her essay, you would think she was beaten and waterboarded while being interrogated.  There is also an undertone of self-importance and entitlement. Maybe I'm being a bit too cynical,but not everyone does these things for purely altruistic reasons.  Many do medical missions so they can say, "Look at me, I'm such a good person" and for good resume fodder.  I'm NOT accusing her of that (I don't know her), but her tone makes me suspect.  I've done plenty of volunteer work and the truth is there are always those that aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart, a fact I'm sure you are well-aware of.

 

These government employed airports screeners are undoubtedly very difficult to deal with, especially if they are anything like TSA agents, many of whom are basically thugs.  But don't forget the importance of the work they are doing as well.  I'm glad she has called attention to the way she was treated, which hopefully will result in more compassionate and respectful treatment to others when returning.  I just think her reaction was a little over the top and fails to fully appreciate the danger posed by those returning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We live in the most sterile society/ time period to date. Purell hangs off every backpack and people give you dirty looks when you cough. Most of us don't remember the days when lots of nasty "incurables" were everywhere. Polio, rabies, hepatitis, small pox, plague. Many big nasties are contained, controlled or eradicated for us.

 

I think that even when educated medical personnel are confronted with the scary "E" word, we try to keep a wide berth.

 

She wasn't symptomatic (or even infected). Not one single person could gown up and bring her a hot pizza and blankets in a 7 hour span while they ran tests? Kinda like all the nurses that refused to enter the (unknown to them) simulated Ebola pt's room. Many just don't want to go near it. The public wants quarantine because that keeps them "safe" and the problem isolated. We should be afraid of Ebola, but not paralyzed by fear of it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

still sx free and still in the tent....with 2 neg tests and no fever...how about that motel 6 folks? they certainly can't do this to everyone. 3 months from now they will probably have 20+ returning medical volunteers/day. hopefully they will have it worked out by then...

Her life in quarantine

She's not allowed to have her luggage and was given paper scrubs to wear. She has no shower, no flushable toilet and the hospital gave her no television or any reading material. Mostly, she says, she stares at the walls.

She's not allowed to see her lawyer or anyone else.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Her life in quarantine

She's not allowed to have her luggage and was given paper scrubs to wear. She has no shower, no flushable toilet and the hospital gave her no television or any reading material. Mostly, she says, she stares at the walls.

She's not allowed to see her lawyer or anyone else.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

She says the doctors on the other side of the viewing window talk to her in plain clothes...but she can't see her lawyer the same way? Gov. Christie keeps saying things like "I hope she recovers quickly"... lol, she's not even sick.

 

Hmmm... someone is gonna get a nice, quiet, few hundred-thousand dollar settlement from the state of NJ in a year.

 

Could have been handled 10x better with simply a real room+bathroom (what, do they think Ebola is gonna go down the drain and climb out another toilet somewhere?), a TV, some donated clothes and open communication. All very doable things.

 

What a comically mismanaged tragedy.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

yup, when the first reports came out about required quarantine I was all for it, because I assumed it would be done in an appropriate manner and the clinicians treated with respect. A simple room with a TV, computer, bathroom, and food meets my requirements. Maybe access to a basic exercise room or a pool. An old summer camp somewhere or a commandeered hotel, for example. I'm not expecting the Ritz-Carlton, but I certainly expect more than the treatment this nurse is currently receiving. I can tell you one thing for sure. I'm not flying through Newark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The commander of they U.S. Army in Africa and about 10 other personnel are effectively quarantined in Italy after helping the Ebola response in Africa, military officials say. FULL STORY

I would be ok with that. quarantine me in Florence or Venice please....

 

Now why would they do that when we know for a fact that quarantines don't work?  Isn't that against CDC policy?  :)  

 

Wonder if these soldiers are going to lawyer up like the formerly quarantined nurse has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Now why would they do that when we know for a fact that quarantines don't work?  Isn't that against CDC policy?  :)

Italy? That's a reward for excellent service done.

oh no, force me to stay in Italy for 3 weeks...:) I may have to eat the food and drink the wine!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More