Moderator EMEDPA Posted December 3, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2014 Some PA programs already are three years long. Marquette University in Milwaukee, WI is one of them with a 3 year program. A Doctorate degree definitely should be a clinical degree that includes a formal residency. Similar to what the Army Baylor Clinical Doctorates for PAs has. Also, call it a Doctorate in Clinical Medicine. NOT doctorate in PA studies or PA medicine....... those are meaningless titles. I like DMS. that follows the current pattern pf many programs that already award an MMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 DMS is good too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopeda Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 DMS is good too! DMS, DPAS, MPAS, MSPAS... Don't they all lead to a PA-C? Seems to me we'd need to work on the license as well. (And get a grammatically correct name while we're at it...ie adjective before noun like every other profession.) That means reform in 50 states. Seems like an unbelievable long-shot to make any kind of difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layler Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I respectfully disagree. If MD was the doctoral degree for PAs, then we should be given credit for the medical education we have. We are not. So if physicians want us to be a separate profession, so be it. Create our own doctorate. Next you say it will make it less accessible. We already have more credit hours and training than many other doctoral health professions. Very little would need to be added to have a doctorate. Lastly, it doesn't have to be mandatory, but many are against having the option at all. Why? I can't logically answer this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layler Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 29, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think this horse has left the barn..... sounds like between 5-10 programs coming up I for one would do a 'reasonable' bridge program to DMS (<10k annd < 2 yrs part time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 For all those working in the education space....would a DMS be an accepted Doctoral degree for the purpose of teaching? Would it be viewed the same as a DPT, DNP, DHsc? On par with a Phd.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 ^ yes. You'll be viewed same as DPT and DNP. With the increasing push for DNP. IMHO if you're a PA. You've got to start working on getting a doctorate. There are several online program out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 30, 2015 ^ yes. You'll be viewed same as DPT and DNP. With the increasing push for DNP. IMHO if you're a PA. You've got to start working on getting a doctorate. There are several online program out there. Online bridge programs resulting in a terminal doctorate for PA? Or other things like Doctorate of health science? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Online bridge programs resulting in a terminal doctorate for PA? Or other things like Doctorate of health science? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 30, 2015 Online bridge programs resulting in a terminal doctorate for PA? Or other things like Doctorate of health science? I think he meant DHSc, DrPH, EdD, PhD, etc. The only doctorate specific to PAs right now is the DPAM at Lynchburg and for the first class you have to be a MPAM grad from their program. later classes will likely allow grads from other programs to do their 9 month postdoc bridge to doctorate (which is essentially a mini-residency + dissertation as I understand it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopeda Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Would a DPAM open more doors and raise one's pay grade more than would, say, DHSc, EdD, or even DC? Does a PA-C with a PhD in philosophy start at the same pay grade (all other things equal) as a DHSc? How about a Naturopathic Doctor PA-C? I realize this question heads to the fringe a bit, but actually I'm asking, does the type of Dr "matter" or is everyone just scrambling to become a "doctor" of something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 30, 2015 Would a DPAM open more doors and raise one's pay grade more than would, say, DHSc, EdD, or even DC? Does a PA-C with a PhD in philosophy start at the same pay grade (all other things equal) as a DHSc? How about a Naturopathic Doctor PA-C? I realize this question heads to the fringe a bit, but actually I'm asking, does the type of Dr "matter" or is everyone just scrambling to become a "doctor" of something? 1. it puts you on even footing against a generic DNP in the mind of some HR person who only knows doctorate > MS 2. it allows you to be a full professor and get tenure if you ever want to teach 3. it puts you 2 pay grades higher from day 1 with every govt service than someone who only has an ms and makes it more likely you will be hired due to their hiring practices, which give points for highest degree earned. ps I know a PA, ND, Lac. He runs an alternative medicine clinic for an HMO on the west coast and does very well for himself. he couldn't do it without the PA and the ND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopeda Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 So at a PA school admissions interview, my writing sample asked: "You ask a senior PA to consult in the treatment room with a patient present, in a clinical setting. He's also a PhD in anthropology and introduces himself as "Doctor So-and-so". How do you handle the situation?" In reality does "Dr"="Dr" or is a line drawn somewhere in terms of relevance? (The director of the school was an MD and sort of an old fashioned one at that. I wonder I he was even trying to cut out non-MD/DO titles from common usage?) NDs are licensed independent primary care physicians in all three west coast states. I wonder, would such a provider receive the same benefits, acknowledgement, and pay rate in a state that does not license naturopaths, simply based on an academic doctorate degree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 30, 2015 Moderator Share Posted March 30, 2015 In a clinical situation a PA, PhD is still mr smith the pa. In an academics environment(such as a lecture hall) they are Dr Smith the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I think this horse has left the barn..... sounds like between 5-10 programs coming up I for one would do a 'reasonable' bridge program to DMS (<10k annd < 2 yrs part time) Wher are these programs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted April 9, 2015 Moderator Share Posted April 9, 2015 these programs don't exist for DPA or DMS - but they are coming I am hoping for the < 2yrs < 10k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpb09 Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Although I am not currently a PA I will be attending UTSW next month to start my schooling. While at work today I was discussing with a NP my excitement to start school this May and she went on to say "Your schooling ONLY gives you a masters degree, right? As Nurse Practitioners, we are awarded a doctorate which will help us acheive complete independence from Physicians one day..."Is this something I will have to continue to deal with throughout my career? I don't understand the arrogance of some NP's as both a Physician Assistant and Nurse Practitioner are considered mid-level providers with similar schooling and length required to finish their respected degrees/programs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 10, 2015 Moderator Share Posted April 10, 2015 Although I am not currently a PA I will be attending UTSW next month to start my schooling. While at work today I was discussing with a NP my excitement to start school this May and she went on to say "Your schooling ONLY gives you a masters degree, right? As Nurse Practitioners, we are awarded a doctorate which will help us acheive complete independence from Physicians one day..." Is this something I will have to continue to deal with throughout my career? I don't understand the arrogance of some NP's as both a Physician Assistant and Nurse Practitioner are considered mid-level providers with similar schooling and length required to finish their respected degrees/programs yes, until the day probably 20 years from now when PAs wake up and start granting a doctorate for doctoral level work. we have already earned enough credits for a doctorate, and for that they only give us a master's. one (minor) reason I went back for my doctorate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshepherd89 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 yes, until the day probably 20 years from now when PAs wake up and start granting a doctorate for doctoral level work. we have already earned enough credits for a doctorate, and for that they only give us a master's. one (minor) reason I went back for my doctorate. How do patients and colleagues refer to you since you have completed your Doctorate? In an educational institute one would obviously refer to themselves as Dr. so and so (at least in my experience), but just curious how you introduce yourself and how colleagues refer to you in the ED or wherever you practice. Mr....... or Dr........? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpackelly Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Educational environment (PA Program, other academic program) always Dr.....from students, administrators and other faculty. I have problems getting even former students to use my first name. It's ingrained in the environment and very reinforced by PhD professors. Clinical environment: whatever variation on your name you prefer without Dr........PA Smith, PA Jim Smith, Mr. Smith, etc. I prefer PA first name last name and then it gives the patient a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 11, 2015 Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2015 How do patients and colleagues refer to you since you have completed your Doctorate? In an educational institute one would obviously refer to themselves as Dr. so and so (at least in my experience), but just curious how you introduce yourself and how colleagues refer to you in the ED or wherever you practice. Mr....... or Dr........? I'm not done yet, 2 classes to go. I will follow the pattern mentioned by Dr. Kelly above. Academic setting= Dr. Emedpa. Clinical Setting = Mr. Emedpa. many states have laws limiting the use of the title "doctor" in a clinical setting to physicians, podiatrists, and dentists. a PA, PhD I used to work with was almost fired for introducing himself as "Dr XYZ, a PA". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I've said all along. If you're a PA. Do an online doctorate program. Can't said this enough. The NP are increasingly throwing their doctorate cramp at our face. Pushing through their agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheshark89 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Why are there no bridge doctorates? You can go from BS to MS online in a year. If you could do from MS to a doctorate online in 1-2 years (especially considering PA programs typically require doctoral number of credits to graduate with the masters), I think it would be well received and probably a big money maker for the school too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Waiting on someone to see the light. Look at how many people did the Nebraska bridge two masters if a program gave a PhD bridge that we have the corner on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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