Afreen246 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Hello everyone, Are there colleges which don't require organic chemistry? I have found a few but not many. I am a weak in chemistry and don't want to risk lowering my gpa. All the help is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arosswoods Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I think maybe EVMS, Witchita or South in TN don't require it. Plus late deadlines give you plenty of time to apply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arosswoods Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 But if you decide to take ochem, the one semester version is ok for most programs my school called it principles of o chem. If you focus on learning the characteristics of each molecule they act predictably in almost all circumstances and you can figure out the basics pretty easy after that. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 12, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2014 U.Wa, Drexel/Hahnemann, Stanford, most BS/AS/Cert level programs for starters. lots of places call it optional. probably 50% of programs don't require it outright. check with individual program websites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassPA-C Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I think you will need ochem to take biochem (at least I did everywhere I looked) but I am sure there are a few places that don't require either. That being said, you say you science gpa is a 2.8 in another thread- if you are having that hard of a time with ochem you may need to think long and hard about PA school or at least consider taking a few more sciences class to get your gpa up a bit. Not saying this to be negative but just realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 12, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2014 many fine programs require neither ochem nor biochem. there is none of this on pance or panre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afreen246 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 But if you decide to take ochem, the one semester version is ok for most programs my school called it principles of o chem. If you focus on learning the characteristics of each molecule they act predictably in almost all circumstances and you can figure out the basics pretty easy after that. Good luck. Thank you. I am currently taking orgo 1 I'm struggling to understand the material. Which scars me because I can't fail or afford to get a c:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afreen246 Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 U.Wa, Drexel/Hahnemann, Stanford, most BS/AS/Cert level programs for starters. lots of places call it optional. probably 50% of programs don't require it outright. check with individual program websites. Thank you I will definitely look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arosswoods Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Thank you. I am currently taking orgo 1 I'm struggling to understand the material. Which scars me because I can't fail or afford to get a c:(Pressure makes diamonds. Don't give up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrothers98 Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Studies of PA students and how they fare in a program in general and their passage rate on the PANCE have shown correlation with grades in organic chemistry. Why? Organic chemistry is an undergrad course that requires higher complex thinking vs the usual memorization (and low level thinking) that most undergrad courses test. When I interview potential students, I look for organic chemistry and the grade. If they dont have it, I ask why not, if they do and did not do well, I discuss this with them and also when we round table with faculty and staff after interviews. There is a reason why many colleges and universities use this as a 'weed out' course. To successfully pass and do well in organic chemistry, not only requires the higher level thinking, it also requires building (scaffolding) on prior knowledge along with group work. This is a class and topic where a study group vastly improves performance vs Chem 1&2. So while I can understand your concern about ruining your gpa with this class, the reality is that a decent grade will help you in selection even if the programs you are applying to dont require it. It will indicate that you can handle complex topics and thinking just....like....PA....school. And that is what you tell them when you apply and interview. Good luck. G Brothers PA-C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 13, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 13, 2014 When I interview folks I am far more interested in how they did in A+P, a course I believe is far more essential and relevant to doing well in PA school than Ochem. maybe this is because of the great A+P experience I had as an undergrad at the university of CA. In our course we had 16 students with 4 students per cadaver. we had great study groups. we had open access to the lab to get our dissections done outside of course time. it was a very intense course. the one unit lab probably took 5-10 hrs/week to stay current with. the 5 unit lecture portion of the course was almost an afterthought compared to the lab. that being said, I have never taken ochem. one of my deciding factors for MD vs PA back in the 80s when I was an undergrad was that PAs didn't have to take ochem. I took the general chem series and a full year of physics. I like physics. it makes sense. it seems relevant to life. making smelly messes in test tubes never seemed relevant to me. I have looked at going back to medschool several times and taken prereq coursework along the way. the only course I never took was ochem. I left it for last. If I was 10 years younger I would likely still take it and go the medschoool route through the DO bridge Primadonna just completed. Their program by the way only requires 1 three unit online ochem course without lab to meet the prereq. That I could suffer through to reach a goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afreen246 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Studies of PA students and how they fare in a program in general and their passage rate on the PANCE have shown correlation with grades in organic chemistry. Why? Organic chemistry is an undergrad course that requires higher complex thinking vs the usual memorization (and low level thinking) that most undergrad courses test. When I interview potential students, I look for organic chemistry and the grade. If they dont have it, I ask why not, if they do and did not do well, I discuss this with them and also when we round table with faculty and staff after interviews. There is a reason why many colleges and universities use this as a 'weed out' course. To successfully pass and do well in organic chemistry, not only requires the higher level thinking, it also requires building (scaffolding) on prior knowledge along with group work. This is a class and topic where a study group vastly improves performance vs Chem 1&2. So while I can understand your concern about ruining your gpa with this class, the reality is that a decent grade will help you in selection even if the programs you are applying to dont require it. It will indicate that you can handle complex topics and thinking just....like....PA....school. And that is what you tell them when you apply and interview. Thank you so much for the insight. I will definitely try to keep organic and see what I can do in order to study better. Good luck. G Brothers PA-C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afreen246 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 When I interview folks I am far more interested in how they did in A+P, a course I believe is far more essential and relevant to doing well in PA school than Ochem. maybe this is because of the great A+P experience I had as an undergrad at the university of CA. In our course we had 16 students with 4 students per cadaver. we had great study groups. we had open access to the lab to get our dissections done outside of course time. it was a very intense course. the one unit lab probably took 5-10 hrs/week to stay current with. the 5 unit lecture portion of the course was almost an afterthought compared to the lab. that being said, I have never taken ochem. one of my deciding factors for MD vs PA back in the 80s when I was an undergrad was that PAs didn't have to take ochem. I took the general chem series and a full year of physics. I like physics. it makes sense. it seems relevant to life. making smelly messes in test tubes never seemed relevant to me. I have looked at going back to medschool several times and taken prereq coursework along the way. the only course I never took was ochem. I left it for last. If I was 10 years younger I would likely still take it and go the medschoool route through the DO bridge Primadonna just completed. Their program by the way only requires 1 three unit online ochem course without lab to meet the prereq. That I could suffer through to reach a goal. Thank you for sharing this it truly means a lot to me. I have completed all my prerequisites except for organic chem. I have always struggled in chem but organic chemistry just doesn't seem to be working for me hence the reason for my fear. I will definitely try to come up with ways to help me excel in ochem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afreen246 Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 Studies of PA students and how they fare in a program in general and their passage rate on the PANCE have shown correlation with grades in organic chemistry. Why? Organic chemistry is an undergrad course that requires higher complex thinking vs the usual memorization (and low level thinking) that most undergrad courses test. When I interview potential students, I look for organic chemistry and the grade. If they dont have it, I ask why not, if they do and did not do well, I discuss this with them and also when we round table with faculty and staff after interviews. There is a reason why many colleges and universities use this as a 'weed out' course. To successfully pass and do well in organic chemistry, not only requires the higher level thinking, it also requires building (scaffolding) on prior knowledge along with group work. This is a class and topic where a study group vastly improves performance vs Chem 1&2. So while I can understand your concern about ruining your gpa with this class, the reality is that a decent grade will help you in selection even if the programs you are applying to dont require it. It will indicate that you can handle complex topics and thinking just....like....PA....school. And that is what you tell them when you apply and interview. G Brothers PA-C Thank you so much for the insight. I will definitely try to keep organic and see what I can do in order to study better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsey Weaver Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 You can't let one class intimidate you and narrow your chances at getting into school if that's what you truly want to do. Don't let that get in your way. Yes, some schools do not require ochem, but think about the majority of students that have taken it any way. Don't sell yourself short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddisilvestro Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 You can find this information via the PA program directory at http://directory.paeaonline.org. While there is not a specific search function available to filter this out, you can view the prerequisite information on each program by visiting their directory page. You can also contact me via email and I can send you a spreadsheet with this information on it that you can view. My email is danielle@PAEAonline.org. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineAndersonPrePA Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 On 9/16/2014 at 7:00 AM, ddisilvestro said: You can find this information via the PA program directory at http://directory.paeaonline.org. While there is not a specific search function available to filter this out, you can view the prerequisite information on each program by visiting their directory page. You can also contact me via email and I can send you a spreadsheet with this information on it that you can view. My email is danielle@PAEAonline.org. Hi I messaged this email and it was undelivered. Can I still request this PA program prerequisite spreadsheet? My email is christine_anderson17@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD2012 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Unfortunately about 20% of the PA-Cat will be O-chem and Biochem questions. So eventually there will be no way not to take these classes in the future in order to get into PA school. In my opinion, O-chem is a class that can mirror studying during PA school, where you need to read and re-read a topic and pretty much figure it out on your own since lectures are never enough to teach you completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAdude27 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) many top tier schools do not require ochem: Duke, GWU, University of Florida, Drexel, OHSU, University of Washington/Medex, Tufts university. I did not take ochem and receivd many interviews/acceptances to said schools. I was never questioned why I did not take ochem. I was not purposely avoiding it, but taking it did not fit into my time frame, and there was plenty of schools that not require it. While I have not started PA school yet, I have plenty of friends in their first and second years who did not take ochem and are doing just fine. I agree with EMEDPA, this information does not seem like it correlates with anything you’ll be learning in PA school, or else many top schools would require it. I wouldn’t fret over one class. If your GPA is low, focus on ways you can enhance other parts of your application, GRE, PCE, volunteering, instead of putting all of time and energy into one class. If you want to take more science classes, I would recommend genetics, pharmacology, immunology, etc as these classes will directly help you with the information you will learn in PA school Edited April 24, 2020 by PAdude27 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills7 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Hey, I am starting to research for PA schools. Did you end up getting into PA school w out taking organic chemistry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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