Spotty academic record

[curiousprepa]

• Coming out of undergrad my overall GPA was a 2.72 in Economics.
• I retook courses and science courses and raised my GPA.
• I then applied to nursing school. I withdrew from one program with good standing, but failed another one.
• After the nursing fiasco, I currently have a cGPA 3.08, and sGPA above 3.10. I have W's on my record as well.

I am putting a lot more time into raising my cGPA, and sGPA. I am even investing a lot of time to ensure that I get a very high GRE score. I am even going far as to attend seminar that would increase my chances of passing PANCE/PANRE.Even with all this work, I'm afraid that a spotty academic record will hold me back.

 

Any ways of explaining a spotty record to improve chances of admissions? Will admissions outweight my failures if I plan to stay focus and excel in the profession at this point?

[UGoLong]

It sounds like you've been at this a while. What I wonder, with the non-medical background followed by not one, but two nursing school missteps, is why you now want to be a PA. It's not going to be easy and, while everyone has their mistakes, you've had a number of them. Time for some soul searching I think.

[curiousprepa]

It sounds like you've been at this a while. What I wonder, with the non-medical background followed by not one, but two nursing school missteps, is why you now want to be a PA. It's not going to be easy and, while everyone has their mistakes, you've had a number of them. Time for some soul searching I think.

 

I just failed out 3 months ago.

 

I am just slowly finding PAs to shadow, and I am also starting to study for GRE. I realize that I do like becoming involved in the diagnosis and treatment of patients instead of bedside care. This is what I thought about frequently while going through the nursing program.

 

My failure did get me to reflect upon what I need to do to take things more seriously. I am planning to overprepare myself for PA school. I'm wondering how I can show this to adcom. Would putting in more work to become a stronger candidate help? Or no?

 

I don't want all my work to go to waste if I choose to do this.

[zoopeda]

The good news is that, in my experience, many (even top) programs are willing to overlook sub-par academic performance(s)--including cumulative GPA figures.  The reality, however, is that the admissions committee needs a compelling reason to overlook such performance.  

 

Such reasons include: 

-solid recent 50 or 60 credit GPA (i.e. mostly As in mostly sciences)

-excellent rest of application (LORs, GREs, HCE, etc)

-time (in years) has passed to show potential for growth and change was even present

 

In other words, you need to all but prove a major shift has occurred and that you have both the academic ability to achieve in a science curriculum and the passion and ability to practice medicine as a PA.  I'm certainly no expert in admissions process, but, in my experience (as someone who's had to work very hard to overcome a 10-year-old non-science 2.98), there are second chances for those who prove themselves.  But it might take more than 3 months...  Best of luck. 

[Guest MedLib42]

 

I don't want all my work to go to waste if I choose to do this.

 

Unfortunately, even for outstanding candidates, there are no guarantees. Some stellar candidates apply year after year and still can't get in for whatever reason. Yes, an academic record like yours can be overcome - I've talked to many other students who have had huge blemishes on their records and managed to get in, and I personally had many F's on my transcript from my first Bachelors degree. But I can't tell you for sure that if you do X, Y, and Z, you will definitely get in. It's going to be a gamble (it's a gamble for most of us!) that you're going to have to be willing to take. If you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is the career you will be good at, be happy with, and it's what you want to do above all else, then I'd say the gamble is well worth it. If you're not 100% sure yet if it's worth it, start with some shadowing and HCE; I'd also highly recommend you read "So You Want to Be a Physician Assistant". See how you feel after all of that. 

 

As far as explaining a spotty record, the only explanation really is the honest one - the one that is true for you. ADCOMs love honesty and can easily sniff out an explanation that isn't honest or genuine. I would suggest sitting down and writing out the answers to some of these questions:

Why did you decide nursing wasn't for you? How did you become so enamored with the PA profession that you found this drive to switch from nursing and overcome past failures? What is it about the PA profession that speaks to you in a way nursing doesn't? And of course, why did you withdraw from the first nursing program and decide to attend a second? Why did you fail out of the second? What did you learn from that failure and how has it made you more determined/more driven to succeed? As you go through and get more shadowing experience, HCE, and continue your academics, your answers will probably evolve in maturity and clarity, so keep working on them as you go. You'll probably have a pretty good (and genuine) explanation to put in your personal statement or give an ADCOM at an interview by the time you're ready to apply.

[bradtPA]

Failing from a nursing program, which is generally easier than a PA program, will be a huge red flag. I can't imagine that your chances are anything but below average. However, that does not imply impossible and I wish you the best of luck.

[curiousprepa]

Failing from a nursing program, which is generally easier than a PA program, will be a huge red flag. I can't imagine that your chances are anything but below average. However, that does not imply impossible and I wish you the best of luck.

 

I've talked with people who say that both are about the same workload.

 

The only difference from what I understand may be that PA programs do not combine didactic and clinical together. I know for sure that I have to get my mind prepared for the strenouous work load. I have been looking over more information for PA than I did with nursing. I basically went into a nursing program without understanding the big picture behind the training, procedures, and NCLEX style tests in order to excel. Most people who excelled in the program already knew what to expect.

 

In comparision with nursing, I am also spending more time learning about the PA profession. I am even preparing to study for the GRE early.  I do not want the same problem to occur with nursing. I am going to spend more time training to become a PA prior to admissions.

 

I realize that my history shows a lack of interest in the nursing profession.  I need to learn more about the career path prior to applying. Even getting myself prepared for PA school is a lot of information.

[bradtPA]

I've talked with people who say that both are about the same workload.

It's not even close to the same workload.

 

I averaged 21-23 semester hours per semester during didactic year 8 years ago. Final exams on 8-10 subjects per semester was not uncommon, and during the summer months we were in class from 8 AM to 6 PM with only a break for lunch.

[Guest MedLib42]

I've talked with people who say that both are about the same workload.

 

I'm not sure if that's an accurate statement. In PA school, we have 21+ credits per semester (very dense content), at least 3 major tests per week, as well as presentations, charts, and research papers. Classes run 8+ hours a day, five days a week during all didactic semesters, with just a little time for lunch. Minimum grade requirement for passing at many PA schools is a B (80), although many are also around a 75-78. During difficult modules, I might spend 40+ hours per week studying, in addition to the 40+ hours I'm already in class. 

 

Having worked in the curriculum development department of a nursing program myself, and after spending several years tutoring nursing students, I think I'm inclined to agree with bradtPA, although I don't want to downlplay the difficulty of nursing school either - because it is extremely tough. But still, I'd caution against going into PA school expecting the workload or the difficulty level to be similar - prepare for a larger workload and at least you won't be caught off guard.

[curiousprepa]

It's not even close to the same workload.

 

I averaged 21-23 semester hours per semester during didactic year 8 years ago. Final exams on 8-10 subjects per semester was not uncommon, and during the summer months we were in class from 8 AM to 6 PM with only a break for lunch.

 

 

I'm not sure if that's an accurate statement. In PA school, we have 21+ credits per semester (very dense content), at least 3 major tests per week, as well as presentations, charts, and research papers. Classes run 8+ hours a day, five days a week during all didactic semesters, with just a little time for lunch. Minimum grade requirement for passing at many PA schools is a B (80), although many are also around a 75-78. During difficult modules, I might spend 40+ hours per week studying, in addition to the 40+ hours I'm already in class.

 

@bradtPA and @MedLIb42: Thanks for the clarification. I'll keep the information in mind. I've been told by admissions from different schools to make myself a strong candidate prior to applying for any program. If I choose to apply, I would need to consider the level of committment to any program after what happened in nursing school. It will be a lot more work to build my application.

 

I'm open to learning about the best way of studying for PA courses. How do you guys pass labs? What were the test questions like in gross anatomy, or pathology? Were questions focused more towards PANCE, or general information?