PA school vs medical school?

[werrl]

Hello,

 

I am brand new to this forum so please excuse me if I'm posting in the wrong category. 
 

I have always seen myself going into the medical field, so naturally I opted in to set my vision on eventually attending medical school. I am currently in my undergrad and I am at the point where I have to make the decision of whether or not medical school is TRULY the right choice for me. I have always pictured myself as a doc, but I have been speaking with my peers and a few physicians about aspects of medical school and the overall profession, and now I am having some doubts. I was now considering going down the PA route, and had a few questions:

Is a PA's salary effected by the whole "medicare reimbursements being tied to patient satisfaction?"

I have talked with doctors who have stated that given the chance to go back in time, they would never have gone to medical school in the first place. How is PA school in comparison? I understand it is much less schooling (granted, you need prior HCE), but I would assume it is pretty rigorous.  

How do malpractice insurance costs differ when comparing the two professions? What is the lifetime liability exposure compared to a doctor's? 

I know many med-school students graduate with over 300k in debt; how does PA school compare financially? 

What exactly does a doctor do that a PA cannot? 

What are the top fields to go into as a PA-- taking into account lifestyle, salary, and stress?

What is the future outlook for someone entering the field now?

Thank you for taking the time to read/answer any questions I have--I appreciate it. I am also posting this on a med school forum to compare answers (albeit those questions will be geared more towards medical school).

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Hello,

 

I am brand new to this forum so please excuse me if I'm posting in the wrong category.

 

I have always seen myself going into the medical field, so naturally I opted in to set my vision on eventually attending medical school. I am currently in my undergrad and I am at the point where I have to make the decision of whether or not medical school is TRULY the right choice for me. I have always pictured myself as a doc, but I have been speaking with my peers and a few physicians about aspects of medical school and the overall profession, and now I am having some doubts. I was now considering going down the PA route, and had a few questions:

 

Is a PA's salary effected by the whole "medicare reimbursements being tied to patient satisfaction?"

 

I have talked with doctors who have stated that given the chance to go back in time, they would never have gone to medical school in the first place. How is PA school in comparison? I understand it is much less schooling (granted, you need prior HCE), but I would assume it is pretty rigorous.

 

How do malpractice insurance costs differ when comparing the two professions? What is the lifetime liability exposure compared to a doctor's?

 

I know many med-school students graduate with over 300k in debt; how does PA school compare financially?

 

What exactly does a doctor do that a PA cannot?

 

What are the top fields to go into as a PA-- taking into account lifestyle, salary, and stress?

 

What is the future outlook for someone entering the field now?

 

Thank you for taking the time to read/answer any questions I have--I appreciate it. I am also posting this on a med school forum to compare answers (albeit those questions will be geared more towards medical school).

Yes

 

Just as rigorous as Med school, because it is a school where you learn medicine, just shorter.

 

Malpractice is less because PAs are sued less. Your liability is really the same depending on the specialty and how you are utilized. A glorified assistant is obviously less likely to be sued than one used to their full potential.

 

150k is typically what I hear. But just like your med school friend with 300k, if you are financially smart and also attend a cheap state school it can be much less.

 

Outside of major surgery, anesthesia for surgery, pretty much nothing.

 

Derm, ER, hospitalist IMO

 

Same as being a doctor. Just less money and less respect.

[EMEDPA]

Same as being a doctor. Just less money and less respect.

bingo. 10 years of higher education and sometimes still treated like an "assistant".

[KMD16]

Med school my friend if you can.

[delco714]

I love how your first few questions are money oriented

[werrl]

Thank you for the reply. 

Can you elaborate on the extent of how PAs are effected by medicare reimbursement?

Also, I didn't realize PAs did almost all of what doctors do (minus surgery and anesthesia). That is definitely a bonus! 

[werrl]

While I understand money shouldn't be the factor that pushes you towards becoming a doc/PA, it is something that needs consideration.

 

Throughout schooling, you will incur a lot of debt (which I'm sure everyone here can relate to). I'm paying for my education with loans and some help from my parents (with intention to pay them back), so I need to ensure that when I make it through all the schooling, I will be able to pay my debts--especially because of the rising costs of education.

 

I believe those that have the idea that money shouldn't play ANY factor into this decision have an idealistic view of the field and need to view the financial side of it with more weight.

[PACdan]

Why have you "always seen yourself going into medicine"? What does medicine mean to you?

 

I think if you have a solid take on those notions, either can be rewarding.

 

Just remember that PA schools (usually) require previous HCE, while med schools mostly do not.

 

[ndpa09]

While I understand money shouldn't be the factor that pushes you towards becoming a doc/PA, it is something that needs consideration.

 

Throughout schooling, you will incur a lot of debt (which I'm sure everyone here can relate to). I'm paying for my education with loans and some help from my parents (with intention to pay them back), so I need to ensure that when I make it through all the schooling, I will be able to pay my debts--especially because of the rising costs of education.

 

I believe those that have the idea that money shouldn't play ANY factor into this decision have an idealistic view of the field and need to view the financial side of it with more weight.

No need to explain yourself. Getting into medicine is not entirely altruistic. Anyone who pretends to think that is only kidding themselves. Salary is a very real and legitimate concern when choosing your profession.

[HFD]

A lot of the questions you're asking are very good ones.

 

As a med student, I can assure you that a good chunk of students enter school without really knowing anything about the payment system. I was one of them. After having a week-long unit on healthcare and reimbursement, I still find it confusing. 

 

But what I can share with you is that no one really knows the future of medicine. Stability and income included. 

 

Also, I was under the impression that PA salaries only started at 80-90k? 

 

As a doctor, you get paid 45-55k during your residency, so it isn't like you aren't seeing any income until your thirties. Then depending on what you decide to do, you are making at least 130k. 

Loans are an issue, but I don't think you should let loans stop you from becoming a doctor, seeing as you will never be unemployed and unable to pay them off.

 

Go to med school.. It's not as bad as people make it seem. At my school we have groups of partiers, artsy types, nerds, religious nuts, etc. And they all get along. So it's like a unified high school.

 

You can do almost anything you want with an M.D. degree. If you don't want to practice, then don't. Most practice, but some teach, some are consultants, and others do research. An M.D. degree is a lot more valuable than doctors realize. 

 

And for the doctors who say they wish they had become a PA. Maybe they actually do. But they are probably the same people that would be saying the reverse if they were PA's. 

Remember, the grass is always greener on the other side. and pre-meds and med students are the biggest whiners. 

[JohnnyM2]

Thank you for the reply.

Can you elaborate on the extent of how PAs are effected by medicare reimbursement?

 

Also, I didn't realize PAs did almost all of what doctors do (minus surgery and anesthesia). That is definitely a bonus!

There have been many proposals made about reimbursement but to the best of my knowledge the ACA does not tie patient satisfaction to reimbursement. You may be thinking about proposals that would tie reimbursement to outcomes. The idea behind these proposals is that a provider would no longer be paid "fee for service" but would, instead, be paid a set amount to treat a condition, disease, injury, etc. IMO, these proposals are unworkable. What you have to realize is that any attempt to reduce Medicare reimbursements will affect all health care workers. Lower paid clinicians like PAs and NPs might actually do better and the ACA explicitly improves reimbursements for primary care services provided by PAs. If you are an employee, however, that doesn't mean YOU will actually get paid more.

 

As we stand here, today, there is no way to know what a PA will get paid 10 years from now but I wouldn't sweat it. With an ageing population, demand for healthcare is increasing and the likelihood that PAs will see pay cuts is unlikely.

 

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[KMD16]

With an ageing population, demand for healthcare is increasing and the likelihood that PAs will see pay cuts is unlikely.

 

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I Agreed w/ aging population and demand for healthcare part. However, the pay cut part Not necessarily true. We'll be task for more work by seeing more patients (more volume) for same pay. Translation, significant pay cut IMHO

 

Any significant cut in reimbursement from the top (MD/DO) would affect everyone across the board including PAs.

[cinntsp]

.

 

Also, I was under the impression that PA salaries only started at 80-90k?

 

 

This depends largely on specialty and location. I know PAs that made 150k+ as new grads.

 

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[EMEDPA]

This depends largely on specialty and location. I know PAs that made 150k+ as new grads.

 

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a lot of those jobs are 70-80 hrs/week so that's really working 2 jobs. best salary I have seen for a new grad for reasonable hrs was 110k right out of school for 14 12 hr rural ed shits/mo

[KMD16]

^^ agreed. No new grad start at 150K/yr as base salary.

[EMEDPA]

75-90 is a more common starting range with folks later making 90-125 in most cases. outside of surgery/derm/em , it is the rare pa who makes more than 125k unless they work a lot of hrs.

most senior em pas I know make north of 125k, but most of them also work multiple jobs and often work > 160 hrs/mo.

I average 180 hrs/mo despite trying to work less. I generally request 168 hrs and almost always get more.

Something always comes up and one of my partners needs coverage for a family emergency, surgery,having a baby, cme, vacation, etc

[cinntsp]

 

 

a lot of those jobs are 70-80 hrs/week so that's really working 2 jobs. best salary I have seen for a new grad for reasonable hrs was 110k right out of school for 14 12 hr rural ed shits/mo

16 to 18 10hr shifts a month. Add in an extra shift or two worth of time to finish charts. 120k base plus production bonus. This is an exception to the rule but I was pointing out that 80-90k is low. High paying jobs are definitely out there. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[EMEDPA]

16 to 18 10hr shifts a month. Add in an extra shift or two worth of time to finish charts. 120k base plus production bonus. This is an exception to the rule but I was pointing out that 80-90k is low. High paying jobs are definitely out there. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

an extra shift or 2 makes this a 200 hr/mo job. Lots of folks don't want to work 200 hrs/mo. I did it for a lot of years and really don't want to any more although every now and then I still get pushed into a 220 hr month. I just came off 14 days in a row(all 12 hr shifts) in order to have time to do my summer institute requirement for school.

120k is still good money,depending on the production bonuses. without production bonuses120k for 200 hrs/mo or 2400 hrs/yr is $50/hr.

side note: if at all possible try never to work at home finishing up charts. working off the clock is working for free.