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PA to MD-new development


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Maybe the AAPA or NCCPA should look into a designation titled "Senior PA" or "Master PA" which could be awarded to a PA with 10+ yrs clinical experience , high marks on boards, and maybe letter of support from colleagues. Maybe starting something like this could influence policy. We could go to the state or VA governing body and say hey look we have 1000 PAs who potentially have the skill of an attending who should be allowed to grow a practice further. A big problem with PAs is we do not designate the guy with 1 day vs. 20 years. 

SocialMedicine I seriously don't understand your disdain for a PA becoming an MD/DO, yet you are in favor of all these hokey additives to show a PA’s abilities.

 

PA’s practice MEDICINE!

 

The terminal degree is an MD/DO

 

Nuff said…

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I don't understand how this could possibly work, for so many reasons.

 

1. It would ruin the PA profession. All of the smart, driven PAs would become physicians. All that would be left are those who do not wish to further their education.

 

2. People would no longer see PA as a career in its own right, but as a stepping stone to becoming a physician.

 

3. PAs would have a lot harder time finding jobs. Many physicians that prefer PAs over NPs like that they don't have to worry about competition - they aren't training someone who will eventually leave, open their own shop, and become a competitor. If any PA could become a physician at any time, I feel physicians would have some pause in hiring them - they are essentially paying someone to get the training they need to become a physician and leave. A PA that could become a full physician is even more of a threat than an NP with independence (because, honestly, very few NPs open their own office).

 

4. I can't see this ever being allow by medical boards. They are very, very committed to keeping the number of graduating physicians low to ensure that job security and income always stay high. If PAs could suddenly become MDs, that would create more physicians and I don't think they would want that.

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Maybe the AAPA or NCCPA should look into a designation titled "Senior PA" or "Master PA" which could be awarded to a PA with 10+ yrs clinical experience , high marks on boards, and maybe letter of support from colleagues. Maybe starting something like this could influence policy. We could go to the state or VA governing body and say hey look we have 1000 PAs who potentially have the skill of an attending who should be allowed to grow a practice further. A big problem with PAs is we do not designate the guy with 1 day vs. 20 years. 

the aapa already has "distinguished fellows" (requires 12 years as a pa, publications, teaching, etc) and sempa already has "senior fellows" (requires 10 years as an em pa.)

Emedpa

DFAAPA & Senior fellow of SEMPA.

(you get to attend nice receptions at the aapa and sempa conferences once you get these).

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SocialMedicine I seriously don't understand your disdain for a PA becoming an MD/DO, yet you are in favor of all these hokey additives to show a PA’s abilities.

 

PA’s practice MEDICINE!

 

The terminal degree is an MD/DO

 

Nuff said…

 

 

I do not desire hokey additives. It would be nice to understand for example when my mom is an ER and being cared for by a PA if he/she has some seniority and command int he field. When my mom is being cared for by an ER physician I have confidence that person went through a residency. If someone was distinguished to be senior it would not only give pts some comfort but move the profession forward. 

 

Your description of the MD and PA degrees is more of what a lawyer and paralegal are about. MD is a terminal degree in medicine ... why ? bc certain activities in medicine and research require that advanced degree. Primary care does not in my experience. I do not feel the PA Profession needs to develop ladder programs to become MDs because all of us who became PAs because we wanted to provide what PAs were trained to do will have our advancement challenged. Quite frankly the ladder program is embarrassing for PA's and I am not alone in thinking this way. We should be making it clear that OUR way of practice is the equitable and feasible solution to a bankrupt healthcare system esp in the context of Primary Care/General Medicine. NPs figured out how to create this brand ... you would do well to figure it out as well or else you will be studying for an MCAT to spend 150k and then residency to do the same job. 

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I don't understand how this could possibly work, for so many reasons.

 

1. It would ruin the PA profession. All of the smart, driven PAs would become physicians. All that would be left are those who do not wish to further their education.

 

2. People would no longer see PA as a career in its own right, but as a stepping stone to becoming a physician.

 

3. PAs would have a lot harder time finding jobs. Many physicians that prefer PAs over NPs like that they don't have to worry about competition - they aren't training someone who will eventually leave, open their own shop, and become a competitor. If any PA could become a physician at any time, I feel physicians would have some pause in hiring them - they are essentially paying someone to get the training they need to become a physician and leave. A PA that could become a full physician is even more of a threat than an NP with independence (because, honestly, very few NPs open their own office).

 

4. I can't see this ever being allow by medical boards. They are very, very committed to keeping the number of graduating physicians low to ensure that job security and income always stay high. If PAs could suddenly become MDs, that would create more physicians and I don't think they would want that.

My guess is that something like this will  eventually happen, although it is unlikely to originate from within the medical community.  There is a significant deficit of providers, no one can deny that.  We are heading for critical mass  and when it finally arrives (if it hasn't already) it will only be a matter of time until something like this is federally mandated.  The AMA has clout no doubt about it, however, 60 million VOTING geriatrics who aren't able to schedule a PCP appointment until November of 2016 will move mountains.

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My guess is that something like this will  eventually happen, although it is unlikely to originate from within the medical community.  There is a significant deficit of providers, no one can deny that.  We are heading for critical mass  and when it finally arrives (if it hasn't already) it will only be a matter of time until something like this is federally mandated.  The AMA has clout no doubt about it, however, 60 million VOTING geriatrics who aren't able to schedule a PCP appointment until November of 2016 will move mountains.

The AMA's clout is much diminished these days.  Witness the NPs advances.  But the AMA has only itself to blame.  Most docs I know are NOT AMA members.  But I agree with what you say.

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It would be nice to understand for example when my mom is an ER and being cared for by a PA if he/she has some seniority and command int he field.

Yeah that would be AWSOME for the profession! Now pt's could not only say "hey I don't wanna see a PA I want a doctor" now they could say "hey I don't want just a PA I want a Super Alpha Senior Executive level PA!"
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[quote name="SocialMedicine" post="171439")

 

 

"Your description of the MD and PA degrees is more of what a lawyer and paralegal are about."

 

What?? Paralegals don't even practice law, lawyers do. However PA'S do practice medicine not "physician assistance"....

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I have to say this - I support any work toward a bridge.  We need to have an alternative to that glass ceiling.  For some, it is a possibility, for others it is not.  Those of us who want to be PAs will still be PAs.  Those who hit the top and realize that through having extra letters behind our names we can do more good for the world, for medicine, and for PAs will have an option to further their careers. 

 

Yeah, it would be great if we had a tiered PA qualification setup.  I think achieving that is as unlikely (perhaps more) than an equitable PA-MD/DO bridge.  

 

I do believe that the PA-MD bridge should be filled with intensive education and should require a substantial sacrifice.  Only then will it have the appropriate amount of value.  I heartily disagree with what the current sacrifice would be for the majority of us who would consider bridging. 

 

Andrew

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I think if you want physician level autonomy, switching specialties should be just as difficult.

 

So if you were in emergency medicine and switched to derm I think you should revert back to first tier (normal) PA status.

 

 

Pp

this basically happens already. If I went from em to anything except primary care(say surgery) I would start at the very bottom of the pile.

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