Jump to content

Recommended Posts

There are discussions going on within the program concerning the following changes to the admissions requirements:

 

1) Increase HCE prereq hours to 4000.

2) Require all HCE be paid direct patient care experience. Volunteer experiences will not be considered to meet the HCE requirement.

3) Add preference/priority based on applicant's residency in the following order: 1. Central Valley of California 2. California resident outside Central valley, 3. Out of state.

4) Criminal background disclosures are required as part of admissions to the college. Criminal background checks are already required of PA students entering the clinical year.

 

Changes are pending approval from the sponsoring institution. I will keep you posted of the final outcomes.

 

LesH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lesh, my only concern would be regarding #2. I would say a case by case evaluation should be made as some folks may have spent significant time in unpaid medical missions work that is/was done on a volunteer basis. However if 4000 hours is a minimum you want most applicants to be far in excess of then maybe volunteer/mission hours would be of less importance as the applicants total hours paid would probably exceed that number by default. Just a thought

 

mukisa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lesh, my only concern would be regarding #2. I would say a case by case evaluation should be made as some folks may have spent significant time in unpaid medical missions work that is/was done on a volunteer basis. However if 4000 hours is a minimum you want most applicants to be far in excess of then maybe volunteer/mission hours would be of less importance as the applicants total hours paid would probably exceed that number by default. Just a thought

mukisa

 

Mukisa

 

Thank you for your comments. For an applicant such as you described that would be considered great community service.

 

LesH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2) Require all HCE be paid direct patient care experience. Volunteer experiences will not be considered to meet the HCE requirement.

 

Les,

 

I think you might be doing your program a disservice if you implement ruling out volunteer services. For example, in the many rural areas of Iowa, the only EMS option is to be a volunteer medic/firefighter. Some departments have a pay-per-call model, but most of them rely on volunteers. I also think that because the scope of practice is broader for these volunteers (ie EMT-B's doing advanced airway), they will in fact be a better prepared student than someone who was paid as a CNA, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Les,

I think you might be doing your program a disservice if you implement ruling out volunteer services. For example, in the many rural areas of Iowa, the only EMS option is to be a volunteer medic/firefighter.

Emerson with all due respect there's a PA program in Iowa that should take care of the folks you described.

Some departments have a pay-per-call model, but most of them rely on volunteers. I also think that because the scope of practice is broader for these volunteers (ie EMT-B's doing advanced airway), they will in fact be a better prepared student than someone who was paid as a CNA, etc.

I understand what you are saying and do not dispute it, there are other things that play into this decision and we think we will be fine. I am just trying to give a heads up. Should this not prove to work out (if it is approved) we will make the necessary changes.

 

LesH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are discussions going on within the program concerning the following changes to the admissions requirements:

 

1) Increase HCE prereq hours to 4000.

2) Require all HCE be paid direct patient care experience. Volunteer experiences will not be considered to meet the HCE requirement.

3) Add preference/priority based on applicant's residency in the following order: 1. Central Valley of California 2. California resident outside Central valley, 3. Out of state.

4) Criminal background disclosures are required as part of admissions to the college. Criminal background checks are already required of PA students entering the clinical year.

 

Changes are pending approval from the sponsoring institution. I will keep you posted of the final outcomes.

 

LesH

I agree with the criminal background check. Its not really ethical to have someone go through (and take up a slot) if they ultimately can't be licensed. Also more programs are moving toward early clinical experience so from a liability standpoint its probably advisable. There are a number of programs where fingerprint background check is part of the admissions process.

 

David Carpenter, PA-C

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree with the criminal background check. Its not really ethical to have someone go through (and take up a slot) if they ultimately can't be licensed. David Carpenter, PA-C

 

It's not about a "youthful indiscretion"...Everything comes out in the open when it's time to get a license.

LesH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW I think these are very positive changes and in keeping with SJVC's mission. (Keepin' it old school....)

 

More and more medical schools are going with the criminal background checks. I think it's more than reasonable for PA programs to do it also. We've all heard horror stories of the programs who didn't find out until AFTER they'd graduated a particular student that that person had a prior conviction as a child molester, etc. Ick. Better to screen 'em out early.

 

L.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is asking an applicant to work in healthcare fulltime for a little over two years , a bit too much???? Commitment, what a concept!

Edited by CAdamsPAC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is asking an applicant to work in healthcare fulltime for a little over two years , a bit too much???? Commitment what a concept!

 

agree-medex already has this requirement and it is 1 I agree with....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this brave new PA world a program like ours doesn't have to many options. The one thing we have been good at doing is training primary care PAs and getting them into rural areas.

 

The upcoming boomer retirement bust is going to hit the central valley hard. We got to be old school. Don't have a lot of slots available, we are best at the doing the original intent of the profession. Second career folks do well here, the ones we get from the area go back to practice, the number of out of state and norcal and socal folks are manageable at this time and some actually stay.;)

 

We are talking about a different type situation from urban practice. You got to know rural and frontier to want to practice in rural and frontier. You also have to have a strong skill set coming in for our particular program. That has been our experience.

 

We tried the volunteer thing with mixed sucess. It's time to try something else. In reality, over 5 years the entering classes HCE averaged 12,000 hours. We don't seem to take a lot of folks with minimum volunteer clinical experience. As we state on our WEB site "Meeting the minimum requirements does not guarantee enrollment".

 

 

LesH

Edited by LESH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree completely with these thoughts regarding revision of admission requirements. I think, since the program (almost all of them across the board in Ca anyway) admit students who may not have the professional educational degrees, it is of even greater importance to attract those who have gained knowledge in the field. I am a firm believer that clinical knowledge can only be gained while practicing in on a daily basis. Why not take those people who have poured their blood, sweat and tears into clinical hands on experience rather than those who have simply expressed an interest in medicine by taking the necessary courses and volunteering here and there? The more hours required by a program the greater chance the students will have more previous experience to draw on while in the program and later while practicing medicine as a professional. As far as the idea of residents of the Central Valley having priority for admission over those coming from other areas…well, I think that’s a great idea. The thought that educating and individual in hopes that they will apply the knowledge gained to benefit your community is not far fetched. Many community colleges give priority to their residents when considering admission to training programs such as RN programs and Rad Tech programs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree completely with these thoughts regarding revision of admission requirements. I think, since the program (almost all of them across the board in Ca anyway) admit students who may not have the professional educational degrees, it is of even greater importance to attract those who have gained knowledge in the field. I am a firm believer that clinical knowledge can only be gained while practicing in on a daily basis. Why not take those people who have poured their blood, sweat and tears into clinical hands on experience rather than those who have simply expressed an interest in medicine by taking the necessary courses and volunteering here and there?

 

Thats oversimplification of the matter. There are those that volunteering is a commmittment for them. There are many that do it regularly and in great amount on on a daily basis, so to lump them in with those who are doing it merely to meet simple requirements is doing them a disservice. There are many that paid for certifications just to volunteer their time for their community and if not for them, there would be many who would not receive the care that they need. As a matter if fact we have several clinics here in central florida where the staff is completely filled with volunteers....to tell them their time would mean nothing in the application process (in my opinion) is wrong.

 

Keep in mind there are those who do not care about money, only helping and they do so....then there are the types that you speak of that cannot or will not take a cut in pay and leave thier current jobs to take positions as EMTs or CNAs and only throw in 5-10 hours a week here and there--these are two different types of applicants that should not be lumped together.

 

The reason for the change is not to weed out the minimal voluteers---as this can simply be done by looking at the time spent volunteering vs accumulated hours---this is to weed out those who have received better clinical expereinces by actually being paid to do so as opposed to those who cany only sit back and watch because of liabilities. there are many organizations that will let volunteers only do so much whicle those who are paid to do the job will do what they are suppose to and sometimes more--and those are the people that many schools want, hence the paid/volunteer distinction.

 

That is a reason I do agree with...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do pre-requisite classes expire with that program? I could see a problem requiring 2 years full time experience in the case that someone took a pre-requisite class their freshman year. By the time their bachelors degree is done their class is 3 years old and then after 2 years of full time experience it is now 5 years old. Thats assuming someone went to school full-time for four years straight for their bachelors. Also, what if the person doesn't get into PA school their first application? They can get another year of health care experience and try again the next year, but another pre-requisite might expire. I'm all for PA schools requiring health care experience first, I just think they need to make it more fair in regards to people who got a bachelors degree first and got their health care experience after the bachelors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From their FAQ:

 

9. Question: Is there a time limit on how old prerequisite classes can be?

Answer : No, however, competitive applicants tend to have taken prerequisites in anatomy and physiology in the last five years. We advise applicants to retake or audit prerequisite anatomy and physiology courses

 

I am a student thats going to be applying to PA schools and I beleive what I am about to say......it is not a PA programs mission to make sure that it accomodates each students situation. They have quidelines, requirements ect. to weed out certain types of students. Doing so narrows down the applications that they have to shuffle through and is actually beneficial to applicants because the possiblity of getting lost in the sea of applications is lowered (a bit) and they are competing against those more on their level.

 

It appears to me that SJVC is not looking for students who merely want to meet the min requirements to get in....they want those that have been in health care for quite some time and know that this what they want to do.....not the other way around (know that they want to be a PA so they go into healthcare). Out of the 130+ programs, there arent that many that still hold these ideals so students who feel that the requirements are not fair, have many other schools to choose from as far as applying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm all for PA schools requiring health care experience first, I just think they need to make it more fair in regards to people who got a bachelors degree first and got their health care experience after the bachelors.

 

With all due respect, you are sort of posting on the wrong PA school thread to bring up the issue of "fair and a bachelors degree". If an applicant wants a MS degree that's great. More power to them. There are opportunities to get into an entry level MS program in the state of California for those applicants.

 

We are more concerned about training a PA workforce to meet a specific need, in a specific geographic area of the state of California.

 

According to our mission statement and ARC-PA we are being "fair".;)

 

Respectfully

 

Les Howard

Edited by LESH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It appears to me that SJVC is not looking for students who merely want to meet the min requirements to get in

 

LOL. No we are not...SJVC is not a good fit for those individuals. There are other programs that will meet their needs far better than we can. I'm just trying to keep it real and be honest.

 

LesH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apologize, I misunderstood the theme because I just quickly glanced at the thread. I'm used to reading threads about how the health care experience limits should be upped, which doesn't really bother me, I've just always noticed a problem with upping it and having such a small amount of time before pre-req classes expire.

 

Also, I didn't look at their FAQ page, which they clearly have already taken care of that problem by not allowing pre-requisite classes to expire.

 

My fault, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

 

-Justin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've just always noticed a problem with upping it and having such a small amount of time before pre-req classes expire
.

Justin,

 

Thank you for your post.I also apologize after seeing that you are a newbie according to the number of post you have submitted. I can be BLUNT sometimes. But I will be honest. I was getting ready to "enlighten" you about the topic in a manner that my students have come too know and dread, "with nothing but love and in a supportive and nurturing way"..lol:rolleyes:

 

49% of the students/graduates of SJVC had < BS degree at the time of entry into the program. The oldest Pre req I remember ever seeing was taken 20 yrs. ago. That person was number 1or 2 in the class during PA school. I can't remember. I just remember she was up there and had been an RN for 20 years... nice lady. I think she had a BSN.

 

While PA education may be rocketing toward standardization and looking for ways to go from HS to PA school in six years, we are one of the handful of programs left that take a different route and are trying to get as many of those "other folks" ( like the ones Drs. Stead, Smith and Silver were talking about) trained before our programs become a blurb on the PAHX society web page...So please don't even talk to me about "fair" it's sort of a touchy subject with me. lol

Also, I didn't look at their FAQ page, which they clearly have already taken care of that problem by not allowing pre-requisite classes to expire.

My fault, I apologize for any misunderstandings.-Justin

It was never a problem in the first place. SJVC isn't looking for the type of applicant you descibed. No disrespect, no put down we are just being honest. That's why we don't participate in CASPA, that's why we recruit locally that's why having a small applicant pool is okay (and we still manage to have 3 applicants for every available seat). Not everything in PA education is done the way they do things on the east coast, or Texas style or in Michigan or even North Carolina :eek:. Sorry for the rant and my apologies to you or anyone else I may have offended.

 

Just an AARP PA PD

LesH

Edited by LESH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the ideas of locals getting priority...... I know Les that there is a huge demand for providers in the area. Also maybe throw in a Mental exam prior to entering....anyone that wants to come into the field must be crazy..(jk les).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also maybe throw in a Mental exam prior to entering....anyone that wants to come into the field must be crazy..(jk les).

 

Mr. Sinn a mental exam prior to entering really isn't a bad idea...lol.;) BTW how is the gig working out? Are you ready to come and do some lectures yet? lol We can start with something easy like common fungal dermatitis...

 

LesH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that there will be other questions like "does a person with a lesser GPA get in over a person with a stellar GPA just because they are from the Central Valley?"

 

Well to be honest with you for our program GPA is a relative thing that the ADCOM members look at according to their own internal criteria. So maybe yes, maybe no...If there is a good possibility that the person with the lesser GPA will practice in Primary Care in the Central Valley odds are they will get the position in the class.

 

We have taken students with < 3.0 and have had relatively good sucess getting them thru the program and certified. 96% of our graduates are certified, while we have never had a class to date where there wasn't a first time failure (or four) we do try to work with our graduates to help them pass their PANCE retest.

 

LesH

Edited by LESH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the number of out of state and norcal and socal folks are manageable at this time and some actually stay.;)

 

 

LesH - the Robin Hood of the Central Valley. "He saved me from taking that job at the Botox clinic in Newport Beach!" :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LesH - the Robin Hood of the Central Valley. "He saved me from taking that job at the Botox clinic in Newport Beach!" :D

 

LOL... anything I can do to help you steer away from the "Darkside" Intrauma. May the "Primary Care force" be with you...;)

 

LesH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More