Jump to content

CRNA's salary vs. PA's


Recommended Posts

"Boring"......I'd have to agree with that. You have to look at more than just the $$ signs. CRNAs are just glorified RTs who stand around all day.

Boring is in the eye of the beholder.

 

CRNA's are NOT glorified RT's. Clearly you assume that all they do is intubate. Try to make an educated opinion next time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 53
  • Created
  • Last Reply
I work with anesthesiologists & CRNAs every day...in my observation they may make it seem like its "easy" but it is critically important work. Between managing critically ill patients, airway nightmares, and all the aspects of pre/intra/post-op patient care..it is anything but "boring" IMHO.

 

We all have our different talents...that is part of what makes medicine such an incredible ride! Love it!:D

Thanks Mon (how ya been?)

 

It looks easy because we do it so much for so long (29 years here). I didn't look nearly as sharp 28.5 years ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Rutheb

Giving anesthesia is like piloting a plane. Three hours of boredom sandwiched between 10 minutes of terror on each end.

 

And I don't think Anesthesia personnel are glorified anything. They are smart and well trained and cool under fire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Giving anesthesia is like piloting a plane. Three hours of boredom sandwiched between 10 minutes of terror on each end.

 

And I don't think Anesthesia personnel are glorified anything. They are smart and well trained and cool under fire.

 

 

I completely agree!! They are anything BUT glorified RT's!! The realy good ones work really hard to make it look that easy. I've seen them keep REALLY sick people alive for 3 hour ortho surgeries where the already sick old ladies are losing TONS of blood as we put rods in her femur!!! I dare an RT to even think about doing that...LOL

 

But yes, even my brother has sadi it is either total boredom, reading books, surfing the net, etc., or it is total terror as you fight....silently and calmly most of the time... to keep really sick people from croaking on the table.:eek:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Mon (how ya been?)

 

It looks easy because we do it so much for so long (29 years here). I didn't look nearly as sharp 28.5 years ago.

 

 

Excellent! Thank you very much for asking. Hope all is well with you too.

 

The case doesn't start until anesthesia shows up!;) anesthesia_team.jpg

 

Much love for all the AAs, CRNAs, & anesthesiologists out there in the trenches.:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

My first post! woohoo

I have worked with many anesthesia people since I worked in the OR for a couple years...the ones that are good, are a pleasure to work with but there are some that aren't that good; as in every profession. One of the anesthesiologists once told me..."I don't get paid to put the patient to sleep, I get paid to wake them up."

I know that there has been kind-of a dividing line between practicing MD anesthesiologists and CRNA's. A sort of mistrust so to say. At one of the hospitals I worked at, one of the CRNAs there complained about the treatment from MD anesthesiologists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
Becoming a CRNA is not easy because the average matriculation is about 15/school/year. That means there is a shortage and you in the medical world shortage = $$$

 

That's a meaningless statistic, if it's even accurate.

 

There are CRNA programs that have 10 students per class or less. There are others that have well over 100 in a class.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...
  • Moderator
On a tangential note, anyone know of a PA that went to CRNA school?

nope....

unless one were already an rn with icu experience AA or MD/DO makes more sense time wise....

pa to rn/bsn= 1 yr+ required time as icu rn+ 2 yr crna program....might as well become an md/do for the same 4 yrs...there is a pa to aa bridge at emory and aa's are gaining more practice rights/states every yr as they become the prefered midlevel of anesthesiology groups trying to counter independent crna practice....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The gas docs are the ones who enabled the CRNAs to begin with. They were a small niche specialty 15 years ago until MDAs figured out they could "supervise" 4-5 rooms simultaneously with CRNAs and triple their income overnight.

 

I have no love for MDAs. I hope the CRNAs take over and kick all the MDAs out. They deserve to lose their profession for all their greed. Back in the 90s, their average salary was somehwere around 250k. They werent happy enough with that, they wanted 400k. Well they got it by "supervising" CRNAs which turned out to be a total sham. The CRNAs went to state legislatures exposing this BS "supervision" and as a result there are now 20 something "opt out" states under the Medicare rules in which anesthesia can be provided solo by a CRNA with zero physician "supervision"

 

Now the MDAs are all averaging 450k, but their greed for more money came at a huge price as the CRNAs are now well underway on the path to 100% independence in all states. CRNA groups are already competiting directly with MDA groups for hospital contracts. The MDAs best days are behind them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The gas docs are the ones who enabled the CRNAs to begin with. They were a small niche specialty 15 years ago until MDAs figured out they could "supervise" 4-5 rooms simultaneously with CRNAs and triple their income overnight.

 

I have no love for MDAs. I hope the CRNAs take over and kick all the MDAs out. They deserve to lose their profession for all their greed. Back in the 90s, their average salary was somehwere around 250k. They werent happy enough with that, they wanted 400k. Well they got it by "supervising" CRNAs which turned out to be a total sham. The CRNAs went to state legislatures exposing this BS "supervision" and as a result there are now 20 something "opt out" states under the Medicare rules in which anesthesia can be provided solo by a CRNA with zero physician "supervision"

 

Now the MDAs are all averaging 450k, but their greed for more money came at a huge price as the CRNAs are now well underway on the path to 100% independence in all states. CRNA groups are already competiting directly with MDA groups for hospital contracts. The MDAs best days are behind them.

Some bad information here. The average anesthesiology salary is between $250-300k. Not $450. If you are doing pain or in BFE doing locums you can make that much but not in an urban area.

 

The history of anesthesiology is really the history of the last 15 years. Prior to that there was anesthesia involvement in academic medical centers but most of the anesthesia in the community was done by either CRNAs or non residency trained anesthesiologists. The profession made a conscious effort to improve patient safety and position the anesthesiologist as the perioperative specialist. The results are a dramatic decrease in patient deaths due to anesthesia complications in the last 20 years.

 

The reimbursement was good in the mid to late 80's then got progressively worse. The residency fill rates in the early 90's were worse than current FP rates with most of the residents being FMGs. In the mid 90's there was a concentrated effort to upgrade academic anesthesia programs. Pain, cardiac and critical care fellowships became more common at this time.

 

If you don't understand the difference between having a true physician peri-op specialist working in the OR then either you don't work in surgery or you don't do very challenging cases. The original intention of the TERFA practice act was that a team of physicians and non-physicians deliver a better practice of medicine than non-physicians alone. This is the same concept that was used in the incident-to rule. There is some OK (not great) evidence that this is the case and that non ACT practices have a greater incidence of anesthesia related mortality.

 

The opt out rule has actually been a very good things for PAs in my opinion. In many ways it has helped define PAs as true partners in medicine and energized the physician community in ways that has been very helpful. If you look at the history of the OPT out, it was adopted by 14 states between 2001 and 2005. Since then there has been no movement. With the exception of Oregon and Minnesota these are mostly rural states.

 

The CRNA profession benefits from a very good public relations campaign. They do this by minimizing the professional benefits of residency and wage very nasty campaigns against AAs, very similar in some states to the relationship between PAs and NPs.

 

David Carpenter, PA-C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nope....

unless one were already an rn with icu experience AA or MD/DO makes more sense time wise....

pa to rn/bsn= 1 yr+ required time as icu rn+ 2 yr crna program....might as well become an md/do for the same 4 yrs...there is a pa to aa bridge at emory and aa's are gaining more practice rights/states every yr as they become the prefered midlevel of anesthesiology groups trying to counter independent crna practice....

 

E,

 

there are several RN's in my ICU going to CRNA school this fall...we've looked at their programs and they stipulate "rn license" and a "baccalaureate degree in a related field". They've contacted their program directors and asked the hypothetical "ICU PA with an AS RN" and were given favorable replies toward admission...You can get an NLNAC ASN degree online for about 36 credits and $3K...just a thought as to a potential anesthesia track...

 

B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
E,

 

there are several RN's in my ICU going to CRNA school this fall...we've looked at their programs and they stipulate "rn license" and a "baccalaureate degree in a related field". They've contacted their program directors and asked the hypothetical "ICU PA with an AS RN" and were given favorable replies toward admission...You can get an NLNAC ASN degree online for about 36 credits and $3K...just a thought as to a potential anesthesia track...

 

B

 

good to know but would still have my doubts until I see someone accepted through this pathway. I have several rn friends who are really good nurses with years of experience who have been trying to get into crna programs for years and have never gotten past a waitlist....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David,

 

would you explain the OPT out?

 

thanks

 

rc

Prior to 2001 CRNAs had to have physician supervision in the OR. In places that used the Anesthesia Care Team model that was an anesthesiologist. In places that did not the supervising physician was the surgeon. CMS published a rule in 2001 that allowed states to opt-out of the supervising physician rule. Some state have the supervising physician rule in statue but others (mostly rural) elected to opt out. So far a total of 14 states have opted out. The ASA has been fighting this tooth and nail in multiple states since the rule was proposed. After the initial opt out states they have mostly been successful in preventing more states from opting out.

 

David Carpenter, PA-C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
"Boring"......I'd have to agree with that. You have to look at more than just the $$ signs. CRNAs are just glorified RTs who stand around all day.

 

This is a PA forum; I assume that everybody here at least has an average IQ . To say CRNA are glorified RT; it seems to me that people don' t know what CRNA do and how hard it is to get into CRNA schools. Let me explain to you how hard it is to be a CRNA for some who do not know... I am an RN (BSN) with a 3.6 science GPA in Bio1&2, general chem1&2, Organic Chem1&2 , Physics w/ Calculus1&2 and Calculus1&2 and I have 3 years of ICU experience; I can't even find one CRNA school that will offer an interview because they are saying the average GPA of their matriculants is 3.8.. Now I am considering medical school at least the DO route which is somewhat easier to get an admission..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a PA forum; I assume that everybody here at least has an average IQ . To say CRNA are glorified RT; it seems to me that people don' t know what CRNA do and how hard it is to get into CRNA schools. Let me explain to you how hard it is to be a CRNA for some who do not know... I am an RN (BSN) with a 3.6 science GPA in Bio1&2, general chem1&2, Organic Chem1&2 , Physics w/ Calculus1&2 and Calculus1&2 and I have 3 years of ICU experience; I can't even find one CRNA school that will offer an interview because they are saying the average GPA of their matriculants is 3.8.. Now I am considering medical school at least the DO route which is somewhat easier to get an admission..

Given that there is an entire string on Allnurses about how people got into CRNA school with less than 1 year ICU experience (and certainly less other qualifications than you say you have) your problem is probably that you are applying to the wrong places. Same thing with PA programs. Its easy to find programs that are harder to get into that BMS (or whatever comparator you want). That doesn't tell anything about the profession, just about scarcity in that particular part of the world.

 

With the statistics you state you would be a decent candidate for most allo programs if you have decent MCATs. For that matter you could also apply for AA programs it seems you have most of the pre-reqs.

 

David Carpenter, PA-C

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
  • 1 month later...

During my career change I was contemplating CRNA. Yes they tend to make more $ than PAs do, but as the concusses seems to show on the forums, all they can do is sit in the OR or cath lab. They do not rounds on pt's, getting H&Ps, etc. The CRNAs I talked to tell me that after a while it does get boring after a while. Also the road to CRNA can be fairly long, sometimes it seems as long as a MD/DO.

 

That being said, I chose PA based on my personality. I tend to like to jump around a lot after doing something for a while. Both have their different functions. I personally would much rather talk to a pt than just knock them out for surgery or any procedure. As for the $$ aspect, I did take a pay cut to attend PA school next year. My 2 cents is that if you chase the $ you'll never be happy. If you make 1, you want 2, then 3, etc. It is a never ending reach. I'm not saying we should not be paid for our knowledge and services, but if all you want to do is chase the $, there are easier ways to do it than work in the medical field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...

I considered (very seriously considered actually) CRNA school after my stent as a nurse in a level one trauma ICU. I was told that CRNA was THE job in nursing and that the "best of the best" nurses go to CRNA school. I was very competitive, and, not wanting to be second best, I spent quite a bit of time shadowing CRNAs in an attempt to like the job. The simple truth is that I found myself to be painfully bored. I love the pharm, physiology, big lines and intubations of CRNA. But it wasn't for me. I wanted the variety of medicine and the challenge of the differential. Money is great in the CRNA world, but it was not my cup of tea.

 

That said.....lately the volume and stress of the ED are making me wish for the quiet and control of the O.R. :>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I work in CT surgery and whenever things get tricky they always ask the surgeon what they would like done as far as starting or changing drips. Kind of takes away that terror part of going on and coming off.

 

Don't forget when comparing PA salaries to anyone else, especially RN salaries, that we get nailed with big loans that result in 10 years of payments averaging anywhere from $10,000-$20,000 a year (depending on your total student loan debt).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I work in CT surgery and whenever things get tricky they always ask the surgeon what they would like done as far as starting or changing drips. Kind of takes away that terror part of going on and coming off.

 

Don't forget when comparing PA salaries to anyone else, especially RN salaries, that we get nailed with big loans that result in 10 years of payments averaging anywhere from $10,000-$20,000 a year (depending on your total student loan debt).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to the Physician Assistant Forum! This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Learn More