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Hoping this list will get most of you going on your searches for residencies or fellowships. It is not an entirely inclusive list, but it has every program listed from APPAP.org. If you have any you want me to add to the list feel free to comment here or on the blog. Goodluck! 

 

http://doseofpa.blogspot.com/2014/03/physician-assistant-residencies.html

 

 

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you are missing about 1/2 of the em residencies. there are now 20 listed in the sticky at the top of the em forum.

Sorry EMEDPA, but this blog post wasn't meant to be 100% inclusive. It was solely meant to be a starting point for students inquiring about opportunities after graduation. I think if they truly wished to pursue EM residencies, they would do more research than just read my blog and I've seen your sticky, but I didn't feel the need to list out every residency or fellowship available to students. That would be doing all of the work for them and that's not why I write. Thanks for your input, though. 

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I don't think fellowships and residencies should be in separate lists.  Some programs use one name or the other but they're all the same thing.  Thanks for putting the list together, though.  It's unbelievable that the APPAP hasn't invested a little into rebuilding their site to be more user friendly.

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I don't think fellowships and residencies should be in separate lists.  Some programs use one name or the other but they're all the same thing.  Thanks for putting the list together, though.  It's unbelievable that the APPAP hasn't invested a little into rebuilding their site to be more user friendly.

THE CURRENT VERSION OF THEIR SITE IS ACTUALLY VERSION 2.0 AND VERSION 1.0 WAS BETTER....

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Also,

It makes sense to point out that the  "accredited" residency vs fellowships are very few in number

 

I have looked into what this accreditation brings to the program - very little to nothing - but creates a lot of headaches.... maybe will change in the future

 

Cost a fair amount of money, if somewhat hard to attain, and really adds nothing....  Heck most the New VA IM residency/fellowships are not even accredited (although I think they are trying to move in that direction)

 

One of the big issues is their is no federal money in the fellowship/residency model unlike physicians - therefor this is no control over content, nor does their need to be any.  No central clearing house or agency (APPAP is trying but honestly is to much $$ and work)

 

Hospital systems are realizing that new grad PA (And esp NPs) are not ready to hit the ground running, nor do the employed doc's have any desire to train..... so therefor fellowships are becoming much more common....

 

 

I predict we will follow the exact same path of the docs with residency/fellowships becoming the norm, and at some point there will be a central certifying agency, but none now.  It is simply the unavoidable future.....  On a good note this is coming about because we are an essential needed part of the health care delivery system and we are no long flying under the radar....

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I don't think fellowships and residencies should be in separate lists.  Some programs use one name or the other but they're all the same thing.  Thanks for putting the list together, though.  It's unbelievable that the APPAP hasn't invested a little into rebuilding their site to be more user friendly.

This needs to be emphasized more- there is NO DIFFERENCE between a "fellow" and a "resident" in the PA world. Some programs just chose to use the term "fellow" and some used "resident".

 

I know you're attempting to become a starting point of reference information, but it might help to understand basic information such as this before arbitrarily splitting it up and causing some confusion to those you're attemping to inform. As screwed up as APPAP's site is, there's a reason they don't separate "resident" and "fellow"

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I predict we will follow the exact same path of the docs with residency/fellowships becoming the norm, and at some point there will be a central certifying agency, but none now.  It is simply the unavoidable future.....  On a good note this is coming about because we are an essential needed part of the health care delivery system and we are no long flying under the radar....

YUP. and at some point you will need a postgrad program to take a CAQ exam...and at some later point postgrad programs will be required. it's coming.

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This needs to be emphasized more- there is NO DIFFERENCE between a "fellow" and a "resident" in the PA world. Some programs just chose to use the term "fellow" and some used "resident".

I know you're attempting to become a starting point of reference information, but it might help to understand basic information such as this before arbitrarily splitting it up and causing some confusion to those you're attemping to inform. As screwed up as APPAP's site is, there's a reason they don't separate "resident" and "fellow"

 

Excellent point. I typically call any post grad program fellowship, in the fact that we are fully licensed a that point. Following the physician model residency is what you do to get licensed, fellowship is your specialty and allows advanced knowledge

 

Fellowship makes sense

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YUP. and at some point you will need a postgrad program to take a CAQ exam...and at some later point postgrad programs will be required. it's coming.

Yup we just have to keep salaries up and training time reasonable

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Excellent point. I typically call any post grad program fellowship, in the fact that we are fully licensed a that point. Following the physician model residency is what you do to get licensed, fellowship is your specialty and allows advanced knowledge

 

Fellowship makes sense

 

Physician residents are, in fact, already licensed- they just have a training license.  Residency is what is used to become specialized; fellowship is sub-specialization.  I prefer the term "resident" for this reason- it is the first step of specialty training after your "PA" or "medical" school.  It's what I was called when I did my post-grad program.

 

Regardless, these differences of perspective is why there is disagreement in the PA world as to what to call these folks who choose additional training after PA school.  But you recognize at least that there is actually no official designation between "resident" and "fellow" among these programs- they both mean the same thing.

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Physician residents are, in fact, already licensed- they just have a training license. Residency is what is used to become specialized; fellowship is sub-specialization. I prefer the term "resident" for this reason- it is the first step of specialty training after your "PA" or "medical" school. It's what I was called when I did my post-grad program.

 

Regardless, these differences of perspective is why there is disagreement in the PA world as to what to call these folks who choose additional training after PA school. But you recognize at least that there is actually no official designation between "resident" and "fellow" among these programs- they both mean the same thing.

The only caveat I can think of is that if a medical resident fails to complete their residency, they are ineligible for a full license to practice medicine and their group/hospital or "training" license is revoked. If a PA-C does not attend or fails to complete a residency, their license is unaffected.

 

Maybe this is why some prefer to call the postgraduate PA training a fellowship. As their license does not depend on it.

 

 

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The only caveat I can think of is that if a medical resident fails to complete their residency, they are ineligible for a full license to practice medicine and their group/hospital or "training" license is revoked. If a PA-C does not attend or fails to complete a residency, their license is unaffected.

 

Maybe this is why some prefer to call the postgraduate PA training a fellowship. As their license does not depend on it.

 

 

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many states allow residents to get a full license after 1-2 years. they can't get board certified but they can practice with an unrestricted license as a GP, even after dropping out of residency.

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many states allow residents to get a full license after 1-2 years. they can't get board certified but they can practice with an unrestricted license as a GP, even after dropping out of residency.

Wow, I did not know that. I thought the old GP title had been dissolved into FP and other specialties.

 

I remember reading awhile ago on a forum which shall not be named, about an MD grad that failed to match a residency. He was asking why he couldn't just practice as a PA until he found a residency. I think I remember him being quite indignant when people told him that his MD degree did not qualify him to sit for the PANCE. :)

 

That's not the only time I've seen that brought up for unlicensed MDs/DOs either.

 

 

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I remember reading awhile ago on a forum which shall not be named, about an MD grad that failed to match a residency. He was asking why he couldn't just practice as a PA until he found a residency. I think I remember him being quite indignant when people told him that his MD degree did not qualify him to sit for the PANCE. :)

 

that particular individual never started a residency and is currently working as a nurse(which is what he did before attending some non-us medical program).

I'm talking about docs who matched, completed a yr or 2 of residency, then dropped out.

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I'm talking about docs who matched, completed a yr or 2 of residency, then dropped out.

I take it the GP status is not desirable enough (money/knowledge/prestige) to make this a common choice for young docs?

 

Damn, the GP role/title is what I was hoping PAs could assume in the future; after a certain number of years practicing post-certification.

 

Good info as always, EMED.

 

 

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I take it the GP status is not desirable enough (money/knowledge/prestige) to make this a common choice for young docs?

 

Damn, the GP role/title is what I was hoping PAs could assume in the future; after a certain number of years practicing post-certification.

 

Good info as always, EMED.

 

 

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these guys are pretty much stuck doing urgent care or same day FP clinics, occ. med, wt. loss clinic, clinical trials, etc as no insurance will put them on a specialty panel and no hospital will give them privileges.

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so back to the fellowship versus residency

 

I do think it makes sense to call them fellowships as a PA is able to license fully upon graduation and PANCE - the same as a resident who has graduated residency (although they get an independent license and we get a dependent license)

 

Residency implies you have to pass to get a license 

Fellowship (for the most part) you are fully licensed already (ie plastics fellows are already general surgeons)

 

Since PA are already licensed it should be fellowships (And it makes sense in my mind)

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The only caveat I can think of is that if a medical resident fails to complete their residency, they are ineligible for a full license to practice medicine and their group/hospital or "training" license is revoked. If a PA-C does not attend or fails to complete a residency, their license is unaffected.

 

Maybe this is why some prefer to call the postgraduate PA training a fellowship. As their license does not depend on it.

 

 

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To add onto what EMED already said, a physician can apply for an unrestricted medical license after passing all three Steps of the USMLE or COMLEX (depending on the MD/DO status).  Not finishing residency doesn't automatically preclude you from having an unrestricted license as a physician.  The catch is that you're not likely to be hired by anyone without completing a residency, nor are you likely at all to get credentialed at a hospital without completing your specialty training.

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so back to the fellowship versus residency

 

I do think it makes sense to call them fellowships as a PA is able to license fully upon graduation and PANCE - the same as a resident who has graduated residency (although they get an independent license and we get a dependent license)

 

Residency implies you have to pass to get a license 

Fellowship (for the most part) you are fully licensed already (ie plastics fellows are already general surgeons)

 

Since PA are already licensed it should be fellowships (And it makes sense in my mind)

 

Residency only implies what you think it implies- the fact of the matter is that physician residents do in fact have a license to practice medicine.  Yes, they have a training license, but if they do not do residency and have passed Step 3, they can get an unrestricted license to practice independently.

 

As our discussion is similar to what program directors from different post-grad programs are having in regards to the "resident vs fellow" title, it's still unclear.  I prefer resident, so on this point we will have to agree to disagree :)

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To add onto what EMED already said, a physician can apply for an unrestricted medical license after passing all three Steps of the USMLE or COMLEX (depending on the MD/DO status). Not finishing residency doesn't automatically preclude you from having an unrestricted license as a physician. The catch is that you're not likely to be hired by anyone without completing a residency, nor are you likely at all to get credentialed at a hospital without completing your specialty training.

Hmmm, what about never starting a residency? Could a graduated MD/DO complete Step III and apply for an unrestricted license without ever setting foot in a residency?

 

If that answer is no, then I still think Fellowship fits better for a PA-C training. As they never HAVE to set foot in a residency. If an MD/DO must at least attend some length of residency (whether they finish or not) for license, then it is a requirement.

 

If the answer is yes, they could skip it (albeit a BAD life choice) then the terms become completely interchangeable in my mind.

 

Either way, be it called a residency or a fellowship, I think the 12-18 months programs are great for us as a profession, as providers, and as knowledge seeking individuals. I have been advised to strongly consider one after school and I will strive to be a competitive candidate for one.

 

 

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Hmmm, what about never starting a residency? Could a graduated MD/DO complete Step III and apply for an unrestricted license without ever setting foot in a residency?

 

 

most states specify 1-2 years of postgrad training + all the usmle steps.

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so back to the fellowship versus residency

 

I do think it makes sense to call them fellowships as a PA is able to license fully upon graduation and PANCE - the same as a resident who has graduated residency (although they get an independent license and we get a dependent license)

 

Residency implies you have to pass to get a license

Fellowship (for the most part) you are fully licensed already (ie plastics fellows are already general surgeons)

 

Since PA are already licensed it should be fellowships (And it makes sense in my mind)

I think you are confusing internship and residency. Most states allow unrestricted license to practice after one year internship and passage of step 3. This is how GMO works in the military. All these GMOs have only done one year internship and now have an unrestricted license in whatever state they choose, thus unrestricted license in all federal areas. Of course, nowadays internship is often inside a residency, but there are still isolated internships, often called "transitional year," that you can do if you still haven't decided on a specialty or didn't get into what you wanted. The military has plenty isolated internship spots to produce GMOs.

 

Residency lets you get board certified. They've already been a licensed doc for at least a couple years.

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