ATC-2-PA Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If some experienced PA's could help me out? I am deciding between PA schools of which one is a masters program and one is a certificate program with optional online masters of medical science. I originally thought the masters program was the obvious choice for me, but after speaking with some other health professionals the question was proposed. Do I need it? I am a certified athletic trainer and have a masters of kinesiology in sports medicine. Gaining the PA-C from a certificate program, would my previous masters degree hold any weight when applying for jobs, or if the standard moves to requiring PA's to hold masters degrees. I will most likely gravitate towards orthopedics. To me the PA program in the "degree", the extra 4 online classes seam a little like formality and an extra $9000+. Considering I've done a full 2 year program with teaching assistantship, thesis, etc. Thanks for any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Check the PA licensing rules and regulations for the state(s) in which you might practice. Some require a master's in PA...but just a few as far as I know. If not required then I wouldn't spend the extra $$ either ;) good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koppma Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I would do the masters because we were told in our PA class (PA practice) that all PA will be required to have a masters by 2020. It would be better now to get it than later because the cost would be higher then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Traditionally, holding a masters in another healthcare field was considered more than adequate. If your masters was in English lit I could see going for the MS PA, MPAS etc but with a masters in kinesiology I don't see the point. Similar for someone with an MPH, MSN etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I would do the Masters program. It is not a state law in New York However several local hospitals will only hire/ or prefer Masters degree holders in PA. They even state it on their position advertisements. Search local hospitals in addition to the laws where you think you will spend your career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm7 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm not sure that I would feel comfortable only obtaining the certification. I defer to Primadonna readily on how this has been viewed in the past and possibly currently. But with our impending degree creep (to the doctorate), I would feel a bit anxious about entering the workforce with only a certificate at this stage. But who knows, could be completely OK. Just seems risky to me. Incidentally, I have a MS in Kinesiology as well, and I'm currently in my first year of a PA program that offers a masters. Good luck with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm7 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Actually, I just noticed that you said the masters takes only 4 classes and $9000 more. Fairly insignificant hurdles. I would, without a doubt, go on to the masters in your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdpac Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If you're established in your community, have no plans to move, your state does not require a masters specific to PA studies and you're comfortable with going for the certificate program based on your current masters degree then there shouldn't be too big a problem with it. If your future living arrangements are uncertain or you could see yourself moving in the future, potentially to a state that requires a PA related masters degree, then it might be worth it to get it now while you're doing the work. While traditionally another health care related masters degree may have been sufficient, I keep hearing rumblings about specific educational credentials for the field in which one is working (degree creep as previously mentioned: e.g. a PA related masters for a PA). It may not be needed now. The wider field of health care, however, is changing and there's no telling if tradition will continue to be honored in this regard. If it's only four classes and the tuition for such, what would it hurt to do it and get the degree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I am not sure I have read anywhere that employers or states are requiring a masters in PA. what I have seen, when present, is the requirement : "wanted, PA. MASTERS (desired, preferred, required)", with no mention, or implication, that the post grad degree be involved with anything PA. AS THE medical EDUCATION IS VIRTUALLY THE SAME BETWEEN CERTIFICATE AND MASTERS, AND, I WOULD (oops) assume, doctoral level schools, to the OP I would suggest that he pick a school that is the best he can afford, and the one which will put the least extraneous burden on him. If that happens to be a certificate program.. So be it... What employers look for is: 1. PA, NCCPA certified. 2. ( if any educational requirement beyond #1) BS, ( in anything) or MS ( in anything). In point if fact, a master in kinesiology probably is more Germaine that a dedicated PA masters, was at least with the kinesiology emphasis he will have a dedicated speciality on top of being a PA. As would a masters in cardiac rehab, or athletic training, or physiology, or heuroanstomy, etc. As for the statement that by 2029 we need all be masters level trained, I sigh. Assuming you can put the inevitable PA/NP arguments side, can anyone demonstrate that the master level trained PA brings anything to the table the certificate level PA doesn't? If the education remains the same ( as it will), I doubt you can finger an advantage in functionality as a PA. Making the requirement essentially more administrative bull$hit. I know, I know, I know. But at the heart of it all, is all administrative BS. this creep means to me that, bottom line we all really want to be doctors, and are willing to mouth the admin line to get to being so. Sigh and double sigh. Op: get the pa training from an instruction which has a high PANCE first time pass rate, is the least expensive and causes your family the least grief. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm7 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The above is awfully smart advice, I think, for PAs of the past. Seems wise to me, however, to try to glance ahead a few years and make an educated guess about what is coming. Read the signs, so to speak. Degree creep is inevitable, and it's possible that non-masters/non-doctorate PAs will have more difficulties in the coming years. Not a guarantee, but personally I just wouldn't be surprised if it was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Most certificate PA's are grandfathered in as far as licensing. I know that as of now most cert PAs are more experienced than masters PAs because of length of career. This is a generalized statement. Overall most employers want experience and license/ ability to practice. the certificate of degree is trivial. The question is does a masters degree make one a better PA or a poorer PA? a masters can be obtained at any time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I am not sure I have read anywhere that employers or states are requiring a masters in PA. what I have seen, when present, is the requirement : "wanted, PA. MASTERS (desired, preferred, required)", with no mention, or implication, that the post grad degree be involved with anything PA. I can assure you that there are two large hospital networks in my area that specify PA's from a masters degree program only. I assume that it has to do with their personal credentialing process, but I can promise you that unless you have the MPAS you will not be considered, regardless of training/experience. I am also starting to see more and more individual practices list this as a requirement as well. Licensure isn't an issue within the state but it doesn't do one much good to have a license if the employer won't consider you. JMPA, I wish your degree of common sense were more widespread around my neck of the woods since I share the same thought, and have mentioned it to the HR departments when I'm even offered a response to an inquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I have two BS degrees and a recently obtained Masters degree. The two BS: Dietetics and PA. The Masters did nothing to make me a better practicing PA as the coursework was all egghead classes. By that I mean: Health Care Policy in the US, epidemiology, biostatistics, research paper and Evidence Based Medicine. Did I enjoy the classes and learn something? Yes. But my previous BS in dietetics and maintaining my Registered Dietitian status has been more beneficial to me since I am the Special Diabetes Program for Indians in my clinic. The degrees are what you make of them.. The OP has ATC degree with Masters in Kinesiology and a probable PA career in orthopedics. I say go for the certificate program. You have already proven yourself capable with a previous BS/Masters in a related field. The only reason I obtained the Masters was my employer allowed me to pay tuition out of my CME funds AND if I ever need to change jobs I will have that dang Masters in my credentials. I would think a Masters in a related field would satisfy future employers in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjm7 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 ^^^^^ (GetMeOut's post) Just seems risky to me to not go for the masters, especially when the extra commitment is so minimal. I feel completely confident that we'll see more and more of the above as the years go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 That's the dilemma that I face at present time. I don't anticipate staying in the field past another five to eight years and a $10K MS bridge isn't worth it. There is one however that I recently discovered that is affiliated with my former university that is under $4200 for a single semester that incorporates four concurrent courses. As Paula so eloquently said, I don't see it impacting my ability to provide patient care. Unfortunately, the program referenced does follow the traditional school semester format so it isn't a "start when you like" program, and you have to be actively practicing, which I'm not at present time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradtPA Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I thought the Cert programs wre gone the way of the dino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kem2127 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Being a recent graduate who was awarded a BSPA in 2013 and also has a very similar background: Bachelor in Sports Med/Athletic Training and Masters in Applied Physiology and Teaching certificate in Health Education, I can say that I had no problems obtaining interviews and job offers in NYC. As others have said, some hospitals may advertise Masters Preferred, but I it was never brought up in any of my interviews with the Depts or HR. So I believe the graduate level degree on paper could matter in the future, but as long as it is a sceince degree or health policy it IS relevant, so I don't think you should be too concerned. Most hospitals give funding towards education anyways so if you felt it necessary to do a bridge program in the future let your employer pay for it, as someone else mentioned use it towards a doctorate degree in health science or public health if you want to further education. I know many new grads in this area who graduated from Masters programs and we all are offered the same pay/jobs, so no favoritism. For what it's worth, all of my classmates obtained jobs after graduation and many of them just had the BSPA without any other prior degrees. My ATC background helped get me interviews in Ortho and ED. Frankly, one Ortho position told me they were "impressed" with my ATC background and masters level in physiology and it was what made me stand out compared to other new graduates. So I second the opinion that not only PA experience but related health care experience is greater than degrees. ED is great too because you see a lot of fractures, sprains, strains so will be doing a good amount of xray interpretation and casting/splinting. Consider doing ED per diem to supplement an ortho outpatient if you find yourself in a clinic based ortho position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Here's an example (non-health network) of a local job posting and their requirements: -Active Texas license. -Physician Assistant Board certification. -Graduate with a master's degree in PA studies from an approved Physician Assistant program Other requirements as well but you get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATC-2-PA Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Thanks everyone for the input, definitely good things to think about. The funny thing about the online masters portion is it's a "Masters in Medical Science". MMS is technically not a masters of PA studies, although semantics at that point. You think they would have named it appropriately, given the political setting in healthcare these days. Sorry don't want to open that can of worms... Luckily both the programs I'm debating have masters, its just one is a cert with optional online MMS. Thanks again for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think it's all semantics. Its NOT like your current Masters is not even remotely related to science. I think the INTENTION of those job posts is to require someone holding a Masters degree, which you do. It's even a Masters of Science degree. Also they want someone licensed, which you will be. Frankly if they didn't recognize me as being such i'd look for another job. It's ridiculous to me. Besides it's well known that NY isn't that great for PAs, especially new ones. On your lab coat it will say Jane Doe, PA-C, MS. Personally i wouldn't waste the money. If you are licensed someone will hire you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Personally I like the MMS designation better than MSPAS. What the heck is PA studies? I've always thought it was a non-sensical title as it says we are masters at PA studies. Dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalPA Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Personally I like the MMS designation better than MSPAS. What the heck is PA studies? I've always thought it was a non-sensical title as it says we are masters at PA studies. Dumb. I agree 110%. I hope I get into an MMS program. Actually I am hoping for any but I am especially hoping for a MMS program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AREID Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The masters degree is by no means standardized. PA programs offer different masters. Because of this they cannot exclude other master degrees. No where does it say you need a masters in physician assistant studies...if so where does that leave those getting a masters in medical science...? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AREID Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 If you are dead set on that MPAS there are many programs available that offer that degree online after graduation Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 See, if we had just all stuck with our BS programs we wouldn't have to be worrying about this. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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