Why does CASPA not permit grade replacement?

[MedicinePower]

Osteopathic medical school (DO) allows for grade replacement.

 

"However, the AACOMAS application used for applying to osteopathic schools uses grade replacement for repeated courses when calculating your GPA; only the last grade earned in a repeated course will be used in calculating your GPA."

Source: http://hpplc.indiana.edu/medicine/AcademicRecordandGrades.shtml

 

 

So why doesn't CASPA?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

I think this is a problem with aacomas, not CASPA. Don't think I'm not for second chances, because I am. Just think this isn't fair to the people who did it right the first time. Now you say, "but what about people with reasonable circumstances?" Well, then all they should have to do is explain that in a personal statement and show some improvement. Otherwise, if it happened because one partied too much, I think it's reasonable that person deal with the consequences of their actions, because actions should have consequences.

 

:: Puts on flame suit::

[greenmood]

Thing is... There are thousands of applicants who didn't screw up the first time. If you did, you should have to prove you aren't going to do it again and you shouldn't be able to hide your track record. Otherwise, no one is making an informed decision when you matriculate. Your journey to this point is part of what makes you unique and can be turned into a strength.

 

I'm all for second chances too, but I hate this attitude that because the grades were a long time ago and you're better now or whatever, that you should somehow be celebrated and elevated over applicants who were serious about their education from the beginning and got that 4.0 while taking a full course load and working nights in the ED.

 

 

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[shawba08]

I dont think it matters, most schools look at your most recent work anyways. I dont view retaking a class as a second chance though. demonstrating you can earn a high grade in a class on a second attempt means you have"A" grade knowledge in that course not the average of a D and an an A. if someone fails the PANCE the first time and retakes it does it matter they failed the first time? I see arguments for both sides. in either circumstance schools should acknowledge upward trends and put more weight on those grades in addition to the prerequisites.

[shawba08]

greenmood, if I could go back I would have done a lot better. in college you have so much time it's more about focus and wanting to achieve high scores. I don't think people who had low grades want to hide it with grade forgiveness because you have to submit all of your transcripts. I'd argue that these statistics created from submitting retake courses are not entirely accurate. to say they are would be to suggest someone who gets an F then an A had C knowledge of a course which is fundamentally untrue. I personally don't care how they are calculated I trust the schools understand my 3.85 in the sciences and upper division medical courses the last 60 hours post bacc are proof I can handle rigorous coursework. again it's not about hiding, the previous poor grade class will be on the transcript and I can see why people want CASPA to consider taking the highest retake grade

[MedicinePower]

to say they are would be to suggest someone who gets an F then an A had C knowledge of a course which is fundamentally untrue.

 

This.

 

Assume for a moment that a 19-year old goes to college, parties, drinks a lot of alcohol, and does really poorly in his first year biology and chemistry classes. Fast-forward 10 years later and he decides working at a gas station or the food service industry isn't the best career move so he goes back to school and retakes those classes, getting As. A gap of ten years or so ought to be enough to demonstrate that he's a different person and the old grades shouldn't even be considered. Are the the same person now you were ten years ago?

[Timon]

From personal experience, it sucks to have to take all the classes over but if you want it bad enough you'll make it happen.

 

I mean I didn't know I wanted to go into medicine after I graduated from college and TBH I never thought for a moment that I would go for a master's degree until my senior year. I was told to focus on doing well for my last 60 units and try to maintain a 3.0 (I was looking to get a masters in communications). Well life happened and my dad passed away from an unexpected CVA at home (52 years old) that was very traumatic. He died Saturday morning, was buried the next day (Sunday morning), I went and took 2 finals that Monday, turned in a term paper that Tuesday and took another final the day after on that Wednesday.

 

After graduating and taking the hit on my grades for that semester I felt incomplete and went back for a masters in business, not because I wanted to get a better job or increase my GPA, but because I wanted to accomplish more and felt had I done college all over again I would have performed night and day with the mindset I had after graduating.

 

So I did end up going back and got my MBA in Marketing and I was a completely different student and got a 3.7 versus a 2.3 caspa undergrad cGPA.

 

When I finally figured out that I should have followed my heart from the very beginning and went into medicine I knew it was going to be a tough road. I said to myself if I get anything less than an A I can call it quits because there is no way anyone would ever want to even consider me with such a bad undergrad performance and knowing how competitive it is to get into a PA program.

 

That mindset kept me focus and I got a 4.0 in the 34 units of science prerequisites I took.

 

While that was going on I really wanted to learn more about medicine because it consumed me and I knew that I had 0 experience and no one would want to hire someone who didn't know anything. So I shadowed physicians, PA/DO students, RNs, NPs, PAs anyone and anybody just so I could put it down on a CV.

 

I still wasn't looked at after that was all done so I took it seriously and I got certification after certification until I was desirable enough to get a good job and preferably at a hospital (which I ended up landing an ER Tech gig).

 

I wanted to log as many hours as possible.so when I applied I was desirable to PA schools so I worked 50-70-80 hours a week. Whatever OT I could grab I took. It didn't matter to me that I had to leave my house 2 hours before my shift to beat the LA traffic in my 60 mile commute each way to work.

 

After putting that much effort in and finally getting accepted to a PA school, the entire first month I was there I was waiting for someone to come pull me aside and ask me to turn in my ID because they made some type of mistake. But that never happened. I feel every day that I'm blessed and that I got that second chance.

 

The point of this post isn't to ramble or boast but its to show that ya you can make a mistake, its frustrating but I took accountability for everything I've ever done wrong. Ya it sucks to put in all that work or to know that you have a 3.83 GPA over the last 120 units you've taken but because you messed up so bad in undergrad your GPA is only a 2.93.

 

But guess what, I explained it in my personal statement, I showed it in my coursework, professional work, and all around application.

 

When you mess up, its not supposed to be easy. That's why you shouldn't mess up to begin with. But if you do, you make the best of it and do whatever you can to fix it. And that's just life in general.

 

So I say keep it as it is. And if a school can't look past the previous performance and see the character that you built along the way, then thats on them. You just keep doing you and improving yourself.

[shawba08]

MrEven, if someone was more self aware, more mature at 18,19,20 that's fine they will get into PA school without the hassel of retaking courses and spending money on post bacc classes. but if I get an A in a retake it is every bit as good as someone who got an A the first time. and that's how it should be calculated. but again it will still show as a retake on the transcript and schools can judge it accordingly.

[MedicinePower]

MrEven, if someone was more self aware, more mature at 18,19,20 that's fine they will get into PA school without the hassel of retaking courses and spending money on post bacc classes. but if I get an A in a retake it is every bit as good as someone who got an A the first time. and that's how it should be calculated. but again it will still show as a retake on the transcript and schools can judge it accordingly.

I agree that it should show up as a retake, but the issue is that both the old and new grades are used in calculating the GPA. This leads to the situation where a 19-year old flunked bio 1 and chem 2 as a Freshman in college, went on to repeat them at age 30 getting As, but is considered to have only gotten Cs for the purpose of CASPA's GPA calculation.

[shawba08]

MrEven, trust me I agree. I haven't gotten in yet it's my second attempt and I'm still waiting to hear about an interview invite. last year they said it was my grades so o took upper division medically related courses and aced them. I'm too the point where I'm just going to do what Timon did if I'm not accepted, just continue to strengthen my application I have great healthcare experience and I'm confident if I don't get in it won't be because of my grades this time, at least I hope that wouldn't be the reason.

[Timon]

The other thing you guys can do is apply to the non CASPA programs. RCC and SJVC are both non-CASPA programs from California. Also Western University honors grade replacements like the DO schools do, however you'll need a 3.4 GPA to be interviewed (its not mentioned on their site but their adcom's have said as much during their preview days). You also have masters programs like the MHS program at Touro Nevada where upon completion you're guaranteed an interview with the program (and almost everyone who completes the program gets accepted).

 

So there's options out there. Its a frustrating system and nothing is going to change it no matter how much you stare, mourn, or raise your fist at it. Its best to figure out a strategy to make you more marketable and that'll set you up for the best success. Work within the given parameters and with enough research you'll find the best programs to apply to for your scenario.

 

I mean I was about to go into an accelerated nursing program just so I could take classes to increase my GPA that would give me a better scope a practice, better pay, and more options once completed.

[shawba08]

Timon, thanks for the advice it really is much appreciated.

[d2305]

You're not the only one who screwed up at 18. Apply to programs that require experience, and you will get accepted (with a little luck).

[Z PA-C]

I think it should stay the way it is now. I disagree that someone who gets an A the first time is equal to someone who gets an F and then an A. Not only because they were serious about it to begin with but I think it is easier to get an A in a course when you have already taken it and seen all the material. I knew a lot of students going into DO programs who would attempt a class and would be unsuccessful but just 'audit' the course for the rest of the semester so they could get an A next time.

[shawba08]

aiviphung, not equal to but proven the same level of understanding. as I've already said school's know if you have taken multiple attempts most recalculate it anyways. but if I were you I'd have similar feelings but I'd still know an A is an A. I think the point is when you average two grades from the same class the average is misleading to a degree.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

I think it should stay the way it is now. I disagree that someone who gets an A the first time is equal to someone who gets an F and then an A. Not only because they were serious about it to begin with but I think it is easier to get an A in a course when you have already taken it and seen all the material. I knew a lot of students going into DO programs who would attempt a class and would be unsuccessful but just 'audit' the course for the rest of the semester so they could get an A next time.

Not to mention all the fun that people missed out on doing it right first time. I'll never get to go back and take that hot sorority girl on a date instead of studying for finals, never go on that kayaking trip with my friends instead of writing that paper, nor will I ever get to have days on end relaxing/skipping class instead of going to every boring lecture to make sure I get the material. Every choice has consequences. Now I have a wife, kid, and 2 dogs. I have to bust my ass getting work done, making sure my wife and child have everything they need just to make it out with friends for a few hours. I'll never go on that date with a hot sorority girl and it not be REALLY creepy ;), j/k obviously not important now that I have my wife. Sometimes I regret not having more fun, but I made my choice.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

aiviphung, not equal to but proven the same level of understanding. as I've already said school's know if you have taken multiple attempts most recalculate it anyways. but if I were you I'd have similar feelings but I'd still know an A is an A. I think the point is when you average two grades from the same class the average is misleading to a degree.

And this is the fault of adcoms for not investigating applicants well enough. I know my school did because they commented on specific upper level classes I took. If it's a time issue, I don't think it would be too much trouble to have a computer program that used an algorithm to weed out those with a upward trend vs those just with a consistent crappy GPA.