cinntsp Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 shoot for HCE that EVERY program will accept. if you get your hce in something accepted by very few programs you really limit yourself when it comes time to apply. even places that say they accept certain forms of low level experience will still rank it below more accepted forms. one of my local programs has 3 tiers for hce with points for each tier. top tier is paramedic/rn/rt/lpn/military medic second tier is cna/emt/medical assistant/xray tech third tier is clinical research/scribe/lab tech/phleb/etc if you apply to that program with 3rd tier experience in a year that everyone else has 1st and 2nd tier you will likely not get an interview. I always find it interesting that the lab folks are called "third tier" on this site yet our background is probably the best equipped, or right at the top, when it comes to the academic side of PA school and definitely when it comes to incorporating lab values into patient care. I would not take another route if I had the chance to do it over. The lack of prior direct patient care has not proven to be a problem. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 it is not just "this site" that considers in lower quality prep, it is also many pa programs. lab tech is excellent academic preparation but almost zero pt interaction at most places. what if someone aces the first yr of PA school only to discover they hate working with pts and have no skill at it? that is what DIRECT patient care requirements are in place for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 it is not just "this site" that considers in lower quality prep, it is also many pa programs. lab tech is excellent academic preparation but almost zero pt interaction at most places. what if someone aces the first yr of PA school only to discover they hate working with pts and have no skill at it? that is what DIRECT patient care requirements are in place for. The reverse of that question is just as legitimate. What about these people with "higher quality" hce that struggle throughout the academics? I think we are discussing two issues that should be separated. Someone needs to be sure they want to work with patients regardless of their background but it is possible to find that out without any HCE at all. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Just food for thought...I heard a doc comment not too long ago that medicine would be perfect if it weren't for the patients, lol. I think the message is that it's possible to enjoy medicine for the medicine, even if you don't like working with the patients. It's kind of a Dr. House mentality. So maybe the key is to know whether you like patients enough to practice medicine OR if you like medicine enough to treat patients. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 I suppose...I can't imagine practicing medicine if I hated pt care and interactions....that would be like being an aerospace engineer and hating math... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 19, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 19, 2013 The reverse of that question is just as legitimate. What about these people with "higher quality" hce that struggle throughout the academics? I think we are discussing two issues that should be separated. Someone needs to be sure they want to work with patients regardless of their background but it is possible to find that out without any HCE at all. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk that is what academic requirements /gpa cutoffs , etc are for. I would not want to admit a critical care RN with a 2.0 gpa either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303909 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I always find it interesting that the lab folks are called "third tier" on this site yet our background is probably the best equipped, or right at the top, when it comes to the academic side of PA school and definitely when it comes to incorporating lab values into patient care. I would not take another route if I had the chance to do it over. The lack of prior direct patient care has not proven to be a problem. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 lab always comes last lol I am completing my internship year to get ASCP certified and it's heartening to see an MT who has parlayed the MT into PA. HCE is necessary but people have to live. I'd rather get $25+ an hour with medical school-level education than have to figure out life at $10 an hour fetching water, bathing patients and taking vitals. I understand the value of that position as I was a nurse aide throughout undergrad. at an acute care psychiatric hospital. I've pondered the 2 year ADN but good luck finding a job. I hope the lab keeps getting overlooked/maligned because the job opportunities and pay will continue to be great while other allied health suffers through saturation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jl11191029 Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I have been reading threads on this forum for awhile, and have learned a great deal. I had intended to post this as a new thread but it seems what I wanted to ask is already being discussed in this one, along with a couple names I recognize from my time lurking on here (EMEDPA, Rev Ronin). I am trying to decide if I should go ahead and complete my remaining pre-reqs (two semesters worth) and then apply to PA School, or if I should go into a BSN Program in order to do some real direct messy lives-on the line HCE for several years. Alternately I would also be open to doing EMT, but I am still trying to educate myself on the possibilities involved in that since I am in pretty rural area and I believe the majority of EMT's here are volunteer. I also really appreciate the info on ER Tech's. My main dilemma is this. I believe I will be reasonably competitive once my pre-reqs are finished and have gone through EMT-training. I have read through stats of accepted applicants on here, and while I do comprehend that there are also lots of people with great stats who didnt get in, I have seen people with stats comparable to mine get into some good programs, including Medex, which would be my first choice. HOWEVER, I have also seen several threads on here started by PA's just out of school who are doing terrible in their first jobs and stating that at least some of this is because they did not have any good HCE before going to PA school. I think my HCE has been important, and given me countless skills I would use as a PA. I have a number of years working in Mental Health both in a direct assessment/treatment role as well as in management roles working closely with Doc's, PA's, NP's, etc and am currently helping to expand our company's med-management/telehealth program to the region I manage. I have spoken with a number of PA's and shadowed several, as well as MD's and NP's. The HCE I have has absolutely helped me in terms of critical thinking, handling emergencies, dealing with bureaucracy, working in a team, working with Doc's, thinking on my feet, etc. As well as experience as a hiring manager which I think will give me alot of insight into how to make myself a competitive applicant for both school and jobs. I do not have a base of medical skills however, I have never dealt with wounds/delivering babies/blood/that sort of thing. So I guess what I am asking is if PA school would be able to teach me those things if I have not done them before. Not just teach them to me to the extent that I can pass the PANCE but teach them to me so that I can actually be a good PA when I graduate. I would VERY much appreciate any feedback. I am very passionate about transitioning out of mental health into more direct/medical-based healthcare, and eventually would like to become a PA (I want the ability to change specialties, I want a challenging job that makes me think and learn constantly, I want a job that is exciting, and I love learning about health and the body- and I am not grossed out by the "icky"). If becoming an RN first would be worth it I would definitely go about it that way, same with EMT. Any feedback is much appreciated! Thank you- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 23, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 23, 2013 the more experience and the better quality experience you have before pa school the easier pa school will be for you and the better pa you will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millsk Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 EMDPA, Just curious on your opinion on scribe. I have read you say it's 3rd tier experience but from the people I have spoken too who have done it consider it invaluable experience. They are learning about exams, which tests to order, meds to prescribe, and what to look for in various disease processes. They are also learning about EPIC which seems to be quite the pain in the ass from the physicians I have spoken too. Thanks, K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 30, 2014 Moderator Share Posted January 30, 2014 EMDPA, Just curious on your opinion on scribe. I have read you say it's 3rd tier experience but from the people I have spoken too who have done it consider it invaluable experience. They are learning about exams, which tests to order, meds to prescribe, and what to look for in various disease processes. They are also learning about EPIC which seems to be quite the pain in the ass from the physicians I have spoken too. Thanks, K scribe is basically shadowing. that has value but it isn't comparable to hands on experience in which you make decisions directing pt care. scribe is essentially being a mobile transcriptionist. you never touch a pt, you never make an independent decision. if it were up to me it would not be counted as anything but shadowing in the pa admissions process. after I finish my doctorate I will likely work at least part time at a pa program. I will never admit an applicant who lists scribe as their only experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millsk Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks for your input. A few of my classmates work at the local hospital doing it and enjoy it. But I apprecaite your experience and knowledge. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 If you don't want to be a CNA because you don't want to "wipe butts" or deal with "icky situations" then IMHO you should truly evaluate if medicine is for you. Every day in medicine you deal with icky things and if you think this is Grey's Anatomy you (a general you, no one specific) are ill prepared for any job involving patient contact. Being a PA is not about being glamorous but about dealing with those who are sick and often unable to take care of themselves. Those who work at the bottom of the pyramid make great providers because they have a true respect for the hard work in medicine and also will appreciate their ancillary staff more. As far as what position is best for HCE, I really think it does not matter that much after seeing many students in my program that have what I'd consider sub-par HCE (volunteer only, lab tech, pharmacy tech). From my personal experience as a CNA I will tell you that it will undoubtedly teach you if you will enjoy medicine or not, and I believe same goes for EMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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