Throw_Me_Away Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Hi, Throw-away account for a variety of reasons. I'm in my first year of PA school. My class has a very harsh divide in it. The one half of the class came to PA school for all the right reasons and had very realistic expectations of the workload and effort it would take to merely survive school (let alone be a "top student"). The other half simply can't hang. It is a constant struggle because they use valuable class time to complain about the complexity of questions and have successfully restructured our pharmacology course in a matter of days to suit their needs--in essence, it is "pharmacology made easy" so they don't fail. My fear: this half of the class will successfully make PA school "easier", thereby making ME a crappy practitioner upon graduation--that's if I even get that far and pass the PANCE. Our instructors bend over backwards for these students. They receive hateful e-mails on a daily basis that discredits not only their knowledge and merits (all of our professors are PhD's, MD's, and PhD/PA-C or NP) but also the program. My class does not get a long, there is so much tension in the classroom that it is tangible. It has started to affect my ability to focus and learn. I have been so uncomfortable with the disrespect in the classroom that I have had to leave the room for the sake of not exploding in defense of our professors. I have e-mailed and met with our professors, eager to profess my passion for critical thinking and realistic, relevant scenarios on exam in order to preserve the complexity of medicine (and also the reality that we will all be facing in a short time--REAL PATIENTS with CRITICAL DISEASES that WE HAVE TO TREAT!). But my class demands easy exams, easy lectures---essentially "spoon feeding". They've also argued to have our entire schedule changed around to suit their needs (we have a few people who travel to the program; EVEN THOUGH we were told in interviews last year it was a FULL TIME PROGRAM and I left everything I knew behind and moved into a new city for this. I will be at school 7 days a week if I have to. You're telling me I'm going to be a PA in 2 years? Just tell me how high you want me to jump). I know there is nothing you, the reader, can do to effectively change my class or my PA experience at this point. However, I need to know that there is hope for me, at least. What can I do to supplement the lack of complexity, critical thinking and coursework that was taken away from me by my classmates? Do you recommend any podcasts? Lecture series? Books? I'm lost at this point. I just want to be a phenomenal PA and not kill anyone. I want to represent my program because I believe in it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 It takes time for your class to gel. Eventually everyone will learn they can't keep going on like this the whole time. If I were in your situation I'd start a Dropbox account and set up a shared folder for everyone to help in creating study aids and whatnot. If you feel the info that is being presented is too easy then go open the book and learn the details. If at that point you're still not satisfied then teach a classmate that's struggling to solidify and master the material. Not everyone is on the same learning tier and some subjects come easier to some than others. Remember, they got into your program and chances are no one is the smartest person in that room at any given moment. Everyone there is intelligent and worked hard to be there with you. So IMO be part of the solution. Ask yourself what is it that you are personally doing to resolve the situation? Recruit others to help bring everyone to where they need to be. Fix the problem, don't just stand by and watch and take sides. If you want to elevate the material then you need to bring everyone to "your level." Best of luck! And don't forget to smile. People don't like Debbie downers or complainers. It's easier to catch flies with honey than it is with a fly swatter. =o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 9, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2013 Welcome to PA school sort of like being made to drink from a fire hose..... My biggest comment - stop wasting your energies! YOU have 2 short years to become a master of as much info as you possibly can. Just because they want the "dumbed down" version just means they are making it easier for YOU to SMOKE through the program with a perfect 100% average! Seriously, PA school is not about anyone else but YOU - it is YOUR education, YOU determine how much and what you learn. DON'T let anyone else change this..... I moved close to my school and lived with another student and literally fell asleep on my books in a puddle or drool almost every night through school - it was hard, I learned a HUGE amount (and I was not overly enthralled with the teaching methods) but I passed PANCE on first try and every PANRE. It is not about loving school, it is about your learning as much as you can and no one but you controls that. Button down, ask the tough questions, learn as much as you can, dig deep into anything that tickles your learning as you will never again get such an opportunity to learn in such a way..... Try to work your way into study group other students with similar ideas - it is amazing what you can learn from each other, and yes you can then laugh at the questions other students are asking.... believe me you don't have to let other students determine what you learn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I was fortunate to have been in a class that (mostly) gelled. That was an added benefit. Just like everywhere you've ever been, make a few friends and don't worry about everyone else. It is unlikely that your faculty will dumb down the class to the point where you all will fail the PANCE. Don't worry about the faculty; they'll stand up for themselves. Just keep doing the work and you'll probably be fine. And don't let the people in the class that you don't like stop you from having a good time with those you do like. And, with the fortunes changing as the class moves forward, chances are more of you will get together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Welcome to PA school sort of like being made to drink from a fire hose..... My biggest comment - stop wasting your energies! YOU have 2 short years to become a master of as much info as you possibly can. Just because they want the "dumbed down" version just means they are making it easier for YOU to SMOKE through the program with a perfect 100% average! Seriously, PA school is not about anyone else but YOU - it is YOUR education, YOU determine how much and what you learn. DON'T let anyone else change this..... I moved close to my school and lived with another student and literally fell asleep on my books in a puddle or drool almost every night through school - it was hard, I learned a HUGE amount (and I was not overly enthralled with the teaching methods) but I passed PANCE on first try and every PANRE. It is not about loving school, it is about your learning as much as you can and no one but you controls that. Button down, ask the tough questions, learn as much as you can, dig deep into anything that tickles your learning as you will never again get such an opportunity to learn in such a way.... Try to work your way into study group other students with similar ideas - it is amazing what you can learn from each other, and yes you can then laugh at the questions other students are asking.... believe me you don't have to let other students determine what you learn... i will have to agree with you. Although many years ago i will still never forget the nights spent falling asleep on my book. as to the op, learn Cecil and you will be fine. just keep up your hard work, life as a PA is constant learning that does not end with graduation. hang in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
problem child Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 sounds like the poster went to my pa school. gawd, did I hate it! thugs, bullies and cheaters. lazy, spoiled, mean and narcissists. I could not WAIT until it was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted November 9, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2013 Agreed....my class seemed to be split right down the middle, and I couldn't wait to get back out of the classroom into the real world. i just kept with reading the texts and lectures, spending time at the library or coffee shop and keeping up a steady exercise routine to blow off steam. It truly sucks being in the middle of it, but it does end at some point and gets better from there. Follow the advice above, and read read read the texts that your instructors use to put lectures together. Start going through questions in the AAPA book and the Van Rhee book to get some idea of where you stand, although the PACKRAT will help out with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 You get out of PA school what you put in. If you are taking practice tests to prep for the exam, studying your ass off, reading material, etc, it doesn't matter if your class is "easy" or not. A program does not define a good or bad PA, the person does. Focus on yourself and stop caring about all this BS. Besides once you hit rotations all this drama will be over. Just keep your head down and focus on your learning and stay out of the high school drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throw_Me_Away Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 It takes time for your class to gel. Eventually everyone will learn they can't keep going on like this the whole time. If I were in your situation I'd start a Dropbox account and set up a shared folder for everyone to help in creating study aids and whatnot. If you feel the info that is being presented is too easy then go open the book and learn the details. If at that point you're still not satisfied then teach a classmate that's struggling to solidify and master the material. Not everyone is on the same learning tier and some subjects come easier to some than others. Remember, they got into your program and chances are no one is the smartest person in that room at any given moment. Everyone there is intelligent and worked hard to be there with you. So IMO be part of the solution. Ask yourself what is it that you are personally doing to resolve the situation? Recruit others to help bring everyone to where they need to be. Fix the problem, don't just stand by and watch and take sides. If you want to elevate the material then you need to bring everyone to "your level." Best of luck! And don't forget to smile. People don't like Debbie downers or complainers. It's easier to catch flies with honey than it is with a fly swatter. =o) Thank you for the advice. Fortunately (or unfortunately?) I've already done a lot of what you've mentioned and I've spent countless hours creating study guides, powerpoints and other various materials for my class mates. I have realized that I am sacrificing myself on a daily basis for them to master the material but at the cost of my own well-being. I do have to constantly remind myself, though, that they are there for a reason. I'm just waiting to find that reason... Cecil has absolutely become my bible. Same with CMDT 2014. I have a variety of PANCE review books I need to start getting into... You get out of PA school what you put in. If you are taking practice tests to prep for the exam, studying your ass off, reading material, etc, it doesn't matter if your class is "easy" or not. A program does not define a good or bad PA, the person does. Focus on yourself and stop caring about all this BS. Besides once you hit rotations all this drama will be over. Just keep your head down and focus on your learning and stay out of the high school drama. This. I needed this. Thank you. And thank you to everyone. It is (unfortunately) very comforting to hear that this is across the board at other programs and not just mine. I have a small group of like-minded students who I need to just rally together and start making PA school worthwhile. Hoping ya'll are right once it comes to clinicals. Fortunately my program allows us to return to where we all came from so I can get back to my "real friends" where I thrive. Again, thank you all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throw_Me_Away Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 .....Start going through questions in the AAPA book and the Van Rhee book to get some idea of where you stand, although the PACKRAT will help out with that too. What's this "Van Rhee" book you speak of? I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throw_Me_Away Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Welcome to PA school sort of like being made to drink from a fire hose..... My biggest comment - stop wasting your energies! ......... Seriously, PA school is not about anyone else but YOU - it is YOUR education, YOU determine how much and what you learn. DON'T let anyone else change this..... I moved close to my school and lived with another student and literally fell asleep on my books in a puddle or drool almost every night through school - it was hard, I learned a HUGE amount (and I was not overly enthralled with the teaching methods) but I passed PANCE on first try and every PANRE. It is not about loving school, it is about your learning as much as you can and no one but you controls that. Button down, ask the tough questions, learn as much as you can, dig deep into anything that tickles your learning as you will never again get such an opportunity to learn in such a way..... Try to work your way into study group other students with similar ideas - it is amazing what you can learn from each other, and yes you can then laugh at the questions other students are asking.... believe me you don't have to let other students determine what you learn... I think you've finally helped me get to a place where I realize I need to stop worrying about everyone else and/or what they think about me. I also had this fantasy about loving PA school, having those life-long friendships with my classmates, etc. But I realize that won't come to fruition with this class, unfortunately. Thank you for opening my eyes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 OP, are you saying that you are developing study aids for other people? Really? I see nothing wrong with sharing what you've done but I sure wouldn't be spending time and effort satisfying the needs of the other students, unless it's a quick answer to a question. After all, you'll all eventually "put your PANCE on" by yourselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throw_Me_Away Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 After all, you'll all eventually "put your PANCE on" by yourselves! HAHA! How true is that! I have been, yes. It's helped me a lot in terms of truly understanding the material and then disseminating it in a way that others can understand it as well. But like I said, it's been costing me a lot of time that I could use to do other things (like have a work-out routine, sleep in a little, go out on the weekend, etc). There are a small handful of students who truly appreciate the study material and that is really motivating for me--I find great joy in helping others. But you are 100% correct, everyone will eventually have to do things on their own and I shouldn't enable them to depend on one person (me). I'll start "weaning them off the teat" today. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AREID Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I graduated from UC Davis when a lot of the material was self taught. I say this for two reasons: 1. As others have said you get what you put in 2. Spend your time learning not worrying. You have a "blueprint". You know what you are expected to know. Don't worry about what the professors are teaching. Go home and read and study the material. Use your professors for any details or concepts you need clarification with. Like others have said you have two years to soak up as much knowledge as possible. During the first year focus on concepts. You won't start really understanding it until you see patients. It's at that point that you'll see an exponential increase in knowledge. It's here that you can actually apply what you've learned. You will also be with other students, residents, and attendings. A lot of these people LOVE to teach so take advantage of them. Ask as much as you can, but most importantly DO as much as you can. You will come out of school just fine. Remember success is a journey not a destination. You will NEVER know it all, but that's what makes this so fun! Goodluck! Andrew Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotaox1 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Don't give up on making those study guides necessarily. I know I am the type of learner that does best when i teach others, so doing that kind of thing helps me (and make me feel good). That said, Just keep your head down and study yourself to death As much as you can without killing yourself. The tests mean nothing, and honestly I did not pay that much attention to lectures (who can pay attention to 52 lectures in 17 days?). I spent most of my time self studying, and so far it has been paying off with successful rotations and packrat scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Don't "study yourself to death!" Have some balance in your life or you will burn out quickly. Get your sleep, get some exercise, and budget some time for fun. PA school is a marathon and you can't go flat out for 27 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotaox1 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 lol I agree UGoLong, poor choice of words. Just meant to imply studying is the key, not the tests or lectures you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted November 9, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2013 What's this "Van Rhee" book you speak of? I want. This: http://www.amazon.com/Physician-Assistant-Board-Review-Consult/dp/1437700004/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1384040120&sr=1-1&keywords=van+rhee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalfluff Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I actually find the exact opposite situation in my PA school, compared to that of the OP. It's been about 2 and a half months by now, and our class has really come quite close. Everyone shares study guides. We drill each other 30 minutes before the exam, and when a test or instructor was not particularly "pleasant or fair," to say the least. You won't be alone. Everyone else is bitching and moaning about it too. If not for this solidarity, I might not be able to keep my sanity or motivation for PA school. I'm sure the situation will change over time. Maybe it's a matter of some shared trials and pain, perhaps? The way I see it, both the dumbest and smartest students in your class will both be called PA-Cs. That's not just due to your faculty, but the cooperation that allows a whole class to graduate. On another note, you should observe the exams getting progressively more dense and complex, and not easier (in a proper program at least). As in, you'll get a patient case question of someone in an ICU needing a -cidal Abx regimen with say, endocarditis and meningitis. You'll be given choices of antibiotics that all cover the offending pathogens. The question then is which regimen will be best to use and what disqualifies certain Abx (ie. Avoid Azithromycin b/c of QT prolongation, Imipenem/Cilastatin w/ CNS patients). You'll need to take about a minute or two to read the question through and decide your answer, and you'll find that the exam time is not nearly enough to read each question carefully. This is not due to your program being unfair, but as a way to prepare for how the PANCE and PACKRATs will be. The sooner you get used to this level of difficulty, the more practice you'll have to be good at the boards, and your rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 PA school... The most expensive self study course you will ever do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM2PA Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Thank you for the advice. Fortunately (or unfortunately?) I've already done a lot of what you've mentioned and I've spent countless hours creating study guides, powerpoints and other various materials for my class mates. I have realized that I am sacrificing myself on a daily basis for them to master the material but at the cost of my own well-being. How's the weather up there on your high horse? I say this not to be rude but to be honest and realistic. It's not your job to make study guides for anyone else or help them along in any way. This white knightery is something you're doing to yourself, not things others are doing to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throw_Me_Away Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 How's the weather up there on your high horse? I say this not to be rude but to be honest and realistic. It's not your job to make study guides for anyone else or help them along in any way. This white knightery is something you're doing to yourself, not things others are doing to you. I realize where you're coming from and often find myself wondering the same thing. I was recently asked what I am getting out of it and the answer is nothing. Like I said previously, I make these study guides for myself primarily, and then publish them for my classmates to use. In essence, these study guides would exist no matter what. Now, I stopped doing them for a few exams and had people (specifically the people in the class that need the most help) ask about them and I returned to publishing them with the added benefit of "more explanation". My goal is to have something I can return to once I hit clinicals to review information and such, and I am meeting that goal. So, PM2PA, I ask you: Knowing now that these "study guides" would exist anyway, do you think I should continue publishing them for my class? I have had many comments saying things like, "I don't know how I would have passed that pharm exam if it wasn't for your study guide"--which is flattering, but that puts A LOT of pressure on me, what if we ALL fail an exam and then it becomes my fault? If your answer is to stop publishing them, how do I let my classmates know without coming off as a stingy, snobby asshole? I know PA school is "about me" and I shouldn't care what they think (especially since I sacrifice myself daily for them and get nothing in return), I also have to sit in a small classroom with all 26 of them 5 days a week for the next 10 months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatChecko Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I realize where you're coming from and often find myself wondering the same thing. I was recently asked what I am getting out of it and the answer is nothing. Like I said previously, I make these study guides for myself primarily, and then publish them for my classmates to use. In essence, these study guides would exist no matter what. Now, I stopped doing them for a few exams and had people (specifically the people in the class that need the most help) ask about them and I returned to publishing them with the added benefit of "more explanation". My goal is to have something I can return to once I hit clinicals to review information and such, and I am meeting that goal. So, PM2PA, I ask you: Knowing now that these "study guides" would exist anyway, do you think I should continue publishing them for my class? I have had many comments saying things like, "I don't know how I would have passed that pharm exam if it wasn't for your study guide"--which is flattering, but that puts A LOT of pressure on me, what if we ALL fail an exam and then it becomes my fault? If your answer is to stop publishing them, how do I let my classmates know without coming off as a stingy, snobby asshole? I know PA school is "about me" and I shouldn't care what they think (especially since I sacrifice myself daily for them and get nothing in return), I also have to sit in a small classroom with all 26 of them 5 days a week for the next 10 months.... You do what you can. Where I go and the way I see it, PA school is a team sport. That also means that everyone has to pull their weight and help when and where they can. One thing I've noticed is that what works for one exam, may not work on the next depending on where my knowledge level is at. Right now, I'm diving into CMDT like none other, but on the previous med test, I was studying the powerpoints, shared study guides, and the like. Nothing says you can't share those tidbits of info as well (like good articles or chapters/sections of textbooks with good explanations). I think it might surprise you how helpful that can be as well. Sometimes people are just drowning in the information and these tips can be life lines. Yeah people will miss the study guides, but when they ask, there's no need to be high and mighty about it, just tell them that the study guide wasn't helping you and you starting reading X or doing X. Offer to help with a subject if someone is really motivated and you feel it's a good use of your time. Sometimes teaching is about guiding people towards the right answer. However, in the end, you need to take care of yourself and ensure that you study so you can be successful as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I realize where you're coming from and often find myself wondering the same thing. I was recently asked what I am getting out of it and the answer is nothing. Like I said previously, I make these study guides for myself primarily, and then publish them for my classmates to use. In essence, these study guides would exist no matter what. Now, I stopped doing them for a few exams and had people (specifically the people in the class that need the most help) ask about them and I returned to publishing them with the added benefit of "more explanation". My goal is to have something I can return to once I hit clinicals to review information and such, and I am meeting that goal. So, PM2PA, I ask you: Knowing now that these "study guides" would exist anyway, do you think I should continue publishing them for my class? I have had many comments saying things like, "I don't know how I would have passed that pharm exam if it wasn't for your study guide"--which is flattering, but that puts A LOT of pressure on me, what if we ALL fail an exam and then it becomes my fault? If your answer is to stop publishing them, how do I let my classmates know without coming off as a stingy, snobby asshole? I know PA school is "about me" and I shouldn't care what they think (especially since I sacrifice myself daily for them and get nothing in return), I also have to sit in a small classroom with all 26 of them 5 days a week for the next 10 months.... you are a poor businesss man, charge em 20 a guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throw_Me_Away Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 you are a poor businesss man, charge em 20 a guide *woman. poor business woman. And damn it I am so so poor. One thing I've noticed is that what works for one exam, may not work on the next depending on where my knowledge level is at. Right now, I'm diving into CMDT like none other, but on the previous med test, I was studying the powerpoints, shared study guides, and the like. I have DEFINITELY realized this, probably a little too late, actually. Barely got through GI with the mindset I had before now. But I'm really loving CMDT. Do you find that it's fulfilling most of the objectives for pharmacology as well with the treatment sections? That's the only thing I fear--love the diagnostics but I still tote around my pharmacotherapy book "just in case".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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