Class of Probation 2016

[uscbigdawg]

[Z PA-C]

Sweetheart, luck is not a factor in my success.

 

ETA: And another lie. You didn't withdraw it, you never submitted the supplemental.

I never said luck was a factor. I never said you didn't earn your way into a seat so I don't know where that insecurity is coming from.

 

Doesn't matter if I didn't submit the supplemental. I formally emailed them saying I wanted to withdraw my application. As I recall, you did the exact same thing at WesternU. But this is turning into a mine is bigger contest and it's not worth my time.

 

[mashlee]

It's ironic that uscbigdawg is trying to defend the A.T. Still program and make it look good, but is in fact making it look terrible by being so unprofessional. students considering attending the program who stumble on this thread will definitely be reevaluating whether they want to go to school with a guy like that, or a program that attracts a guy like that!

 

And for the gentle hearts, it's like my wife says. Yep, my husband is in fact an asshole, but he's one to everyone. So, while he is, he also is more honest than most and knowing where you stand is better than someone being a friend to your face and stabbing you in the back.

So yeah, I could be all cuddly and friendly or I could be the d ick. In the end, above all else, I'm honest and that is often too much for modern society to handle. I don't apologize for it. Don't like it, too bad.

[uscbigdawg]

[Z PA-C]

However, it is a huge disservice to potentially misinform folks with information that YOU do not know the truth about. My stance applies to any program, not just my program.

You say it's a disservice to misinform folks and that you would defend any program but then make a blanket statement that a particular program is for eggheads and does not have students with real experience.

Get your facts straight or don't comment.

You dislike it when people make statements without knowing the facts but you have no trouble claiming that I need your help to get into PA school and discredit my merit as an applicant when in fact I have managed to be accepted into programs on my own accord THE FIRST TIME applying. Something you couldn't do.

 

aivi - You can't help responding. I pulled my app from Western after the program director proved their program is completely against the history of PAs. I didn't berate them over their supplemental application and certainly wasn't worried about making a waitlist. They are for eggheads, not those of us with real experience. They have their grads and a good re putation. Just one I have no desire to be associated with. I spoke my peace when asked about their program and that's where it ended. I don't revisit their school's thread after putting in my $0.02. Heck, you got the supplemental after many of us were accepted. So much for your merits.

 

nate - stay hopeful. The program doesn't succeed or fail because of me. I'm not near that arrogant. I see misinformation put out and respond to it in the manner I see fit. I don't speak for the program, just as they don't speak for me. I would have the same response to anyone speaking ill of any program.

 

And... So much for you being able to show you couldn't respond either.

 

You guys are making the slow clinical day fun.

I have every right to respond when someone is addressing me directly, attacking my character, and just being an all around bully. Some people are okay with letting you say whatever you want but I have no trouble standing up to people like you. You stated that WesternU's program was against the history of PAs because of HCE requirements and their focus on primary care rather than specializing but I think compassion, empathy, and respect for others are more important factors for what it means to be a PA. However, you've made it very clear that being an asshole (your words not mine) is more your thing, which is why I can understand why we will never see eye to eye.

 

Although you do not speak directly for ATSU, as a student you are a representative of that particular institution and believe it or not, your words and actions have a reflection upon the program....

So, if it's easier for you to follow guidance we give children, say something nice or say noting at all.

...so you may want to follow you own advice once and a while.

[uscbigdawg]

[uscbigdawg]

[uscbigdawg]

[HeatherLW]

Told you that you couldn't help replying. I love being right again.

:Irony:

 

If you were to become a PA, when a supervising physician or a patient disagrees with you, are you going to follow them out the door, yelling at them, so you can feel like you one upped them? 

[dannydude57]

 

Ask any healthcare provider or facility in the region today about A.T. Still University, and they will tell you, “that is the place with the P.A. program that has fallen into probation.” 

 

Here is a helpful conversation to learn for students entering the Class of Probation 2016: 

 

 

Prospective future healthcare employer:  “I see that you attended A.T. Still University, isn’t that the school that fell into probation?” 

 

You:  “Well, yes, but our program director told us it’s no big deal and you shouldn’t worry about it either.” 

 

Prospective future healthcare employer:  “Your assessment of the impact of the probationary condition of the program was based on what staff members told you?  Isn’t that like asking a car salesman whether a damaged car is safe to buy?” 

 

You:  “No.  Well, you see, the problem was that students were missing out on rotations that are required by the Accreditation Review Commission on Education for the Physician Assistant.” 

 

Prospective future healthcare employer:  “Oh.  You paid $70,000 to a P.A. school that couldn’t even provide the fundamental educational requirements to train and practice as a P.A.?” 

 

You:  “Well, $73,910 to be exact.  Luckily, the ARC-PA didn’t terminate our program in March of 2014.  Otherwise, I would have had to wait another year to try to get into a different school's P.A. program.” 

 

Prospective future healthcare employer:  “Let me get this straight.  You attended a program that: 

1)  Could have been cancelled by the accreditation agency shortly before it started. 

2)  Is $29,038 more expensive than a nearby program in a bordering city. 

3)  Is known by the entire healthcare community to be a program in trouble, forever placing a black mark on you for the rest of your career?  Not only did you attend the School of Probation, but you entered the very year where it could have closed down.  How desperate are you?”  

 

You:  “But the staff said they are really caring.” 

 

Prospective future healthcare employer:  “During your interview, did you ask the instructional staff why none of them stood up and took any action when P.A. students were being cheated out of their education?  The students gave the instructional staff $73,910 of their hard earned money.  Why didn’t any of the instructional staff do anything?  How caring were they, really?”  

 

 

For me, the answer is easy. I would say that I passed the Physician Assistant National Certifying Exam (PANCE). I have proved nationally that I have the minimum skills and knowledge necessary to safely practice medicine. There are many who have graduated from P.A. programs not on probation or that have stellar reputations and have not met this requirement. Since they did not pass their PANCE, they are not recognized to have the minimal skills needed to practice medicine. No matter what you think about where I have come from, I have the skills needed to be a great P.A. But, you know that already. That is why I am sitting here with you today. 

 

I think everyone is looking at this all wrong. They see the probation as a bad thing. A.T. Still University is over a century old. They know how to survive. Their attitude is "they are looking at us through a microscope, we really need to get this right." The P.A. program is working extra hard now to make sure they are exceeding the standards. I have full confidence in what they are doing. 

 

Dan S PA-S

[JJC]

Each is entitled to their opinion, and right or wrong.

[CaseaCakes PA-C]

For me, the answer is easy. I would say that I passed the Physician Assistant National Certifying Exam (PANCE). I have proved nationally that I have the minimum skills and knowledge necessary to safely practice medicine. There are many who have graduated from P.A. programs not on probation or that have stellar reputations and have not met this requirement. Since they did not pass their PANCE, they are not recognized to have the minimal skills needed to practice medicine. No matter what you think about where I have come from, I have the skills needed to be a great P.A. But, you know that already. That is why I am sitting here with you today. 

 

I think everyone is looking at this all wrong. They see the probation as a bad thing. A.T. Still University is over a century old. They know how to survive. Their attitude is "they are looking at us through a microscope, we really need to get this right." The P.A. program is working extra hard now to make sure they are exceeding the standards. I have full confidence in what they are doing. 

 

Dan S PA-S

Well said Dan. Personally, I thinks it's a great thing that the probation happened. Since then there has been great changes made to program (that I'm sure you can attest to). At the end of the day, I completely agree that A.T. Still will do everything they can to exceed the standards.  

[mandyt]

uscbigdawg what are you going to do when the program shuts down this spring?  

[forsalis]

As a medical professional myself, and with people close to me a part of AT Still's PA class of 2016, I am horrified. Not horrified about programs on probation, but horrified at uscbigdawg's treatment of other human beings, and his some-day colleagues, on this forum.

 

uscbigdawg, you lack some of the key elements required to become a truly oustanding PA, namely compassion. Not to mention humility, kindness, and emotional intelligence. I, for one, would never want you as a part of my clinical team. One can only hope that your future would-be employers dig around on the internet and unearth your deplorable behavior that is no doubt rampant on various sites, disqualifying you from any decent employment. It's people like you who give mid-level providers a poor reputation.

 

To you, young man, shame on you. And might I offer my sincerest advice : do not pursue a career in medicine. Perhaps a different career, one not fundamentally built on compassion for others.

 

And to all the rest, good luck in your medical endeavors! Medicine is the most rewarding of careers!

[bestestpa]

Well said forsalis!   I was shocked and appalled by bigdawg's comments and attack!  I would never want to be associated with him or his class, as I see it as shameful behavior, especially for a PROFESSIONAL in the health care field.

 

I am ecstatic to have been accepted into a program that is well respected and top 10!  I am so glad that bigdawg will not be there.  As  you said...kindness, humility and compassion are what make great PA's and people.  Bigdawg has none of this, and his need to be right and bash others talks volumes about his true nature.  I'm just glad that he;s not taking care of me or family members.  I live over 1000 miles away!

[mille91]

I have looked at the posting history of most people on this forum regarding the probation.  They seem to be divided into two groups...  

 

One group can't get in at any other program and they also plopped down a large deposit, or they have already started the program.  This group, having no other option or already being committed financially, thereafter say the program is great.  

 

The other group makes assessments from an objective distance about the program and its consequential problems.     

[jmedic12]

I must be in a third group because I was accepted to two other schools and after much consideration chose AT Still fulling knowing about their probation status and upcoming site visit. It helped that the director of another school in Arizona told me in my director interview that he has no doubt whatsoever that AT Still will receive full accreditation in March and that he was a little peeved because they have been taking clinical rotation sites away from them all year...

[mandyt]

I have looked at the posting history of most people on this forum regarding the probation.  They seem to be divided into two groups...  

 

One group can't get in at any other program and they also plopped down a large deposit, or they have already started the program.  This group, having no other option or already being committed financially, thereafter say the program is great.  

 

The other group makes assessments from an objective distance about the program and its consequential problems.     

 

I would think another reason would be that they lived close and they couldn't relocate.  But even then, why wouldn't they go to NAU which is much nicer, costs a lot less, and isn't on probation?  

[jmedic12]

NAU is brand new program that hasn't graduated a class yet. No idea what PANCE pass rates will be. They're still going through growing pains. Students from current and last year class stated during interviews that there were a lot of problems with financial aid and getting disbursements in a timely fashion (two students said it took a month after school began before they finally got financial aid and so they had no money to live off of at beginning of school year...). Students also said that most lectures are taught by guest faculty and its hit or miss as to whether it was good or not. Faculty stated that its a work in progress figuring out which guest lecturers they'll reuse and which they wont invite back, but being a guinea pig for the bad lecturers is not my idea of an ideal learning environment. The facility is amazing but it's not being utilized anywhere near its full potential ( $100,000 Sim Mans and they only use them for 4 weeks before starting clinical year. Amazing technology and monitors in lecture area but 2nd year students stated that they were only utilized once or twice during entire didactic year..) Campus is still under construction and parking is big issue ($1000 extra a year oncea student to park down the street in garage and walk to campus). I think five years from now NAU will probably be an amazing program but right now they're still working out a lot of wrinkles and trying to figure out what works. Sometimes you just get what you pay for and my general impression from the current students was that you needed a lot of patience and an extraordinary amount of flexibility in this program. The recurring catch phrase from faculty at interview was "remember you'll need to be very flexible in this program". I opted for the school with a 94% PANCE pass rate, a proven curriculum that is organized and has been around (here in AZ since 1996) for quite awhile and a school that is well known. (P.S. several of the top faculty teaching at AT Still before the probation status are now the head faculty at NAU)

 

You are correct in that I only applied to the AZ PA schools because I can't relocate (homeowner, career spouse, kids, etc) but I had my choice out of all of them.

[SeLynne]

For what it's worth, I shadowed a PA who attended AT Still about 10 years ago. 

 

She told me she was actually glad the program was placed on probation because "they have had problems for some time" and "maybe now the problems will finally get addressed." 

 

But I don't think she even knew the officially cited reasons for the program being placed on probation.  She was talking about other problems. 

[HeatherLW]

Did he or she say anything else about it? 

[JJC]

Lots of info to take in here.  I hope we all become successful PAs regardless of the program we attend.

[jmedic12]

Good luck at Emory JJC

[JJC]

Good luck to all those at A.T. Still

[jmedic12]

This entire thread degraded to a flame war and I apologize for my portion in it. Choose the school that will make you most successful. Look at faculty, commute, PANCE pass rates, costs etc. as those are the most important factors. At the end of the day all the schools are required to prepare you for licensure. You have to choose which one will prepare you best.