BeatlesLVR Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I'm a little lost and am hoping you kind folks can assist me, i've searched for similar stickies to this topic, but I can't seem to find one with my particular circumstances. I'm a former Combat Medic with the United States Army but I left in 2005 to pursue a non-patient care career. After 8 years, I decided that I very much missed being in patient-care, and I can't believe I left it! Although my time as a Combat Medic more than fulfills most PA schools' hours of direct patient care pre-requisite, I would like to get back into patient care to brush up on my lapsed skills, enhance my application, be able to work with PAs/NPs/and MDs again, and possibly be able to solicit LoRs when the time is right. I'm wondering for my latter mentioned goals if it is best to do a nursing assistant certification, a medical assistant certification, or forge ahead with an EMT-Basic (or for an additional semester, an Intermediate)? Why are most schools insisting on PAID hours vs. VOLUNTEER hours? thank you kind folks for helping me out with this dilemma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 26, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 26, 2013 in terms of training time cna 80 hrs emt basi9c 120 hrs medical asst. 9-12 mo many volunteer jobs are very low level(handing out blankets, etc) which is why programs like paid hrs. with your prior military training anything that interests you is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrelight74 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 If you have the right connections, a few offices will let you train on the job as an MA. While I was an MA, a friend of mine needed a job while waiting to get into a nursing program, and my office needed an MA. I told them about him, and he was a great addition to the office (albeit temporary position) for around 9 months. Lots of states don't require official training of MAs. What state are you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted September 27, 2013 Administrator Share Posted September 27, 2013 Good EMT Basic programs tend to take a LOT more than 120 hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Helix-7 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 From what I heard, around my locations there are places where they do train CNAs to be MAs...Though, mostly for full-time positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeatlesLVR Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 My local CC (Northern Virginia Community College) has an EMT-B course that trains for a semester (12 credits) and costs $1,800; the Red Cross offers a CNA pgm that trains for 5weeks at $1,250; and an Adult Education Pgm affiliated with NVCC teaches a Certified MA Pgm for $2,950 for 4 weeks. Im not going to lue thst cost does matter, but i am also worried about getting the most out of the eventual cert, meaning will I be able to get a job after certifying with any of these pgms? Im leaning towards the EMT-B since i am thinking to continue my military xperience by getting into Emergency Medicine as a PA. I too thought that MAs were more OJT-type of positions, so Im surprised to see the MA pgm so expensive, moreso then an EMT and CNA! My goal is for a few hrs /wk, preferably over the wkends since I work full time and go to school full time now. Thank you folks for answering me! Ive seen a few of your names around this forum and know that you provide valuable insight to a lot of pre-and current students :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAtoB Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 What Rev-Ronin said re: EMT training. And depending where you live, finding an EMT job can be quite challenging. Not sure what reimbursement is like for EMT training, but much of your CNA cost is reimbursable by federal law if the place where you work accepts Medicare/Medicaid. Also, working as a CNA or MA would greatly increase your chances of getting more frequent time with doctors and PAs. I started at a nursing home as a brand new CNA, but during that time I also started volunteering at a hospital as a simple go-for for patients and nurses, and that got my foot into the door and I was eventually hired as a CNA on my unit even though I only had 6 months of experience (when the job required at least 1 year of experience). ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatChecko Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Just to be a devil's advocate... Yes, the CNA/MA gets you more time initially with docs/nurses. However, the EMT will get you more independent practice and decision making experience (which you have, but current experience never hurts). Check the job market, but keep in mind your previous experience will make you stand out among the newbies. Also, EMT's often work in the ED as techs, and depending on where you live, those can be very good entry level jobs and I particularly thought I got a lot more out of working there than I would have working on a floor. You see more pathology, more meds, and more variety. CNA/MA is not a bad path, you will learn, see more chronic issues, and long term patient treatments. However, I you might get a bit bored with your prior experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I'm a little lost and am hoping you kind folks can assist me, i've searched for similar stickies to this topic, but I can't seem to find one with my particular circumstances. I'm a former Combat Medic with the United States Army but I left in 2005 to pursue a non-patient care career. After 8 years, I decided that I very much missed being in patient-care, and I can't believe I left it! Although my time as a Combat Medic more than fulfills most PA schools' hours of direct patient care pre-requisite, I would like to get back into patient care to brush up on my lapsed skills, enhance my application, be able to work with PAs/NPs/and MDs again, and possibly be able to solicit LoRs when the time is right. I'm wondering for my latter mentioned goals if it is best to do a nursing assistant certification, a medical assistant certification, or forge ahead with an EMT-Basic (or for an additional semester, an Intermediate)? Why are most schools insisting on PAID hours vs. VOLUNTEER hours? thank you kind folks for helping me out with this dilemma! I can definitely sympathize. I was a corpsman then a MA in civilian world but took 5 years off from medicine to work as a Realtor (made hella money but felt I needed to go back to medicine-and coincidentally,real estate the last few months I worked was beginning to take a dump) I decided to re apply to PA school as a Realtor and got NO responses. I decided to leave real estate and worked as a MA (fat pay cut...fat) for 2 years. I re applied to PA school in my 2nd year and got in. I had 20k hours before my extra 2 years so I can only assume it was due to not having recent/current HCE that I got dissed. You might be able to just apply for a MA job without "CMA." I was also able to work without any certification just my prior experience but YMMV. Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeatlesLVR Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 @fyrelight74 & @Joelseff (HOOAH!) I reside in Northern Virginia and they're sticklers here for being "cert'd" (<-- as one urgent care clinician told me) I thought it'd be easy for me to just walk into a doctor's office/clinic and tell them that I had been a combat medic and they'd allow me to take vitals, etc. but you'd have thought I was asking them to drink from a used McDonald's straw! which is why I am now resorting on either a CNA or EMT-B. I'd never heard of an MA, but when I looked up positions at George Washington Hospital, quite a few basic positions are for certified NAs, certified medical assistants, and ALS certified medics. I don't have the time to do a paramedics degree in conjunction with my pre-requisite classes for PA schools (as well as finishing my 2nd bachelor's degree and working full time!). All-in-all, I will be taking a load of 8 credits of pre-req classes, 3 credits of my BS program, and whatever coursework for an EMT or CNA degree... I just need to figure out which degree (EMT-B or CNA) will get me a PT job and give me face time with PAs and MDs, and patient care time... AAAAAHHHHH! Everyone's advise/suggestions are GREAT... most of you folks seem to be leaning towards a CNA degree for the goals I have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2013 Good EMT Basic programs tend to take a LOT more than 120 hours... I know but that is the min. I think mine was something like 240 hrs back when it was called EMT-1(A), then then upgrade to EMT-D was a full day learning how to use an AED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAtoB Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Sumera, from a time standpoint first, and imho prospective jobs standpoint, CNA is the easier route, and based on the anecdotes of friends who've gotten into PA school so far, there's no discernible difference in importance placed on both jobs by PA admit committees, all other things being equal in the application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2013 many programs take level of responsibility of prior hce into account and place it into tiers. cna is bottom tier experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAtoB Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I completely butchered what I meant with what I typed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fyrelight74 Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Well, darn, if you were in California, around my area, I might be able to convince my SP to hire you on as my MA. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcreek Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Let me take this opportunity to advocate for the EMT route... I am an ER Tech and have an Advanced EMT certification. I started an an EMT-B. As an EMT, I have also worked in an in-patient psych facility and an outdoor resort in the mountains of Utah. Many places I have volunteered have also liked my EMT training, because I was able to perform relevant skills under my certification such as injections and patient assessments. Yes, jobs as an EMT can be competitive, and the pay is pretty low, but the amount of skills/experience you can acquire makes it all worth it. Here are a few of my duties as an ER Tech: Assist in resuscitative efforts/patient codes through chest compressions, ventilations, operating the manual defibrillator, etc. Help vitalize and transport patients Establish IV access and hang IV fluids Collect blood/other patient lab samples for testing Apply splints to fractures, and assist physicians in fracture/disclocation reductions Assist in the suturing process Clean, irrigate, and dress all wounds, including burn debridement Urinary catheterization Be an extra set of hands for anything, including advanced procedures like chest tube placement and spinal taps Of course I also am required to wipe butts and change adult diapers.... shudder. Etc., etc. I see a ton of patients every shift, with a wide variety of complaints and different acuity levels. I am right there in the mix working side by side Physicians, Nurses, and other members of the interdisciplinary care team from the initial patient assessment to discharge/transfer/admit. This also means that I get to ask our docs questions all the time about any step in the care process, and I frequently do. After almost 4 years in this arena, I have learned a lot about effective patient care in general, as well as specific etiologies, lab values, medications, CT scans, and the like. We also get a fair amount of PA students which adds another layer of value to the ER Tech position. IMO, the stuff that I get to see and do is much more interesting, varied, educational, and relevant as preparation for the PA profession than any opportunity I would have been able to get as a CNA or MA. But that does not mean it is right for everyone. Some people simply do not have the right personality traits to thrive in Emergency Medicine. 12 hour shifts, often with no breaks, running from patient to patient. There is a lot of drama, death, and dealing with difficult people involved. Some of the deaths and abuse cases are very disturbing. Being verbally abused also comes with the territory. I have been physically assaulted a few times as well dealing with combative and psychotic patients often under the influence of alcohol and other drugs. PA schools highly valued my ER Tech experience. I would recommend it to anyone looking to apply to PA or Med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeatlesLVR Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 @fyrelight74- I WISH! My husband lives in Cali (i couldnt get a xfer out there from wrk, so he's there and Im here in DC! ) i hope to meet you if I get into any of the Cali PA pgms I plan on applying to :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 27, 2013 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2013 RCreek- sounds like we have similar backgrounds. I did emt in high school, then worked through college as an er tech doing a scope of practice like what you describe above. it was a great prep for pa school. after college I went to medic school as well and did that for 5 years before becoming a pa. familiarity with medical culture, knowing names, dosages, and indications for many meds came in very handy in school. I already could read ekg's before pa school which also helped. I could not do the jobs I do today without my prior experience as an er tech and medic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 @fyrelight74 & @Joelseff (HOOAH!) I reside in Northern Virginia and they're sticklers here for being "cert'd" (<-- as one urgent care clinician told me) I thought it'd be easy for me to just walk into a doctor's office/clinic and tell them that I had been a combat medic and they'd allow me to take vitals, etc. but you'd have thought I was asking them to drink from a used McDonald's straw! which is why I am now resorting on either a CNA or EMT-B. I'd never heard of an MA, but when I looked up positions at George Washington Hospital, quite a few basic positions are for certified NAs, certified medical assistants, and ALS certified medics. I don't have the time to do a paramedics degree in conjunction with my pre-requisite classes for PA schools (as well as finishing my 2nd bachelor's degree and working full time!). All-in-all, I will be taking a load of 8 credits of pre-req classes, 3 credits of my BS program, and whatever coursework for an EMT or CNA degree... I just need to figure out which degree (EMT-B or CNA) will get me a PT job and give me face time with PAs and MDs, and patient care time... AAAAAHHHHH! Everyone's advise/suggestions are GREAT... most of you folks seem to be leaning towards a CNA degree for the goals I have.... Can u still challenge the EMT basic exam after Army medic school? We had the option to challenge LVN, and EMT-IA (I dont think they have this anymore) when I got out of the Navy in the mid 90's. Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeatlesLVR Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 @Joelseff, for EMT re-tests in the state of VA, one's EMT license should not be expired for more than 2 years… after that one would have to go through the entire course again…! So now the pendulum doth swings towards the EMT cert? My "primary" goal is to get face-time with MDs and PAs so that I can watch them at work and interacting/collaborating with each other. Since I don't have contact with most of my NCOs/COs (supervisors for my civilian buddies) from the Medical Corp, being that I've been out since 2005, it is also important for me to be able to eventually get LoRs from my MD/PA mentors. I'd like to attain a position at one of the nearby hospitals, preferably in the ER again, so I'm trying to decide between the EMT or the CNA. However, it seems that EMT-Bs don't have as many possibilities available to them in the hospital as do the EMT-Ps..! I love the ideas you guys are throwing at me, keep em coming! :-) I have to decide NLT November when I have to sign up for classes…! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToppDog Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Sounds like you really want to be an ER tech, so you should research what cert's are the most common for them in your area. Some hospitals will hire EMT's as ER tech's, & some will hire MA's as ER tech's. It's also not uncommon for them to want you to have your CNA cert as well for hospital positions, so you could be looking at getting your CNA plus one of the other two to land an ER tech job. If landing an ER job doesn't seem realistic, you might consider urgent care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeatlesLVR Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 @Joelseff: when you say "challenge" a test, what do you mean exactly? What steps does one take? And does the "challenge" result in me skipping the EMT-B training to go directly towards taking the test? If that's the case, I will take all steps necessary to challenge the EMT-B test so that I can go on to the next level! That way I can try to get a job as soon as possible so I have some "tenure" at the facility by the time I apply (maybe for Fall 2016 or 2017). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeatlesLVR Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 @TopDogg, thank you! I think you're right about the ER tech/ clinical technician (as they are called here in VA). I am going to check out some employment sites to see what those jobs req. for certs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 @Joelseff: when you say "challenge" a test, what do you mean exactly? What steps does one take? And does the "challenge" result in me skipping the EMT-B training to go directly towards taking the test? If that's the case, I will take all steps necessary to challenge the EMT-B test so that I can go on to the next level! That way I can try to get a job as soon as possible so I have some "tenure" at the facility by the time I apply (maybe for Fall 2016 or 2017). Yes it means u skip the training. Check with the LVN and EMT boards of your state. In California, corps school is seen as equivalent to LVN school and when I got out there was an EMT-1A certain we could challenge. Look into it Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Sorry for the new post but tapatalk won't let me edit since the forum change. Here is the Virginia dept of health site about corpsmen challenging it: http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/OEMS/Training/Reciprocity.htm I didn't read it thoroughly but i think u can challenge it. Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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