Over 40 & becoming a PA? Wise or not...

[Will352ns]

Sometimes contrarian views are not well tolerated so allow me to help make it go down smoother.

 

Highly variable quality dilutes the brand. The MDs recognized this problem when they commissioned the Flexner report. The result was to cement the Doctor brand in the minds of the public as the highest level of medical care.

 

People complain frequently about the disrespect PAs received and the inherent problems associated with our title. Part of the problem is that PAs have no brand identity. One factor, of many, that prevents the establishment of a brand is the highly variable quality of PA education.

 

Th NCCPA is supposed to serve as a monitor to ensure the same consistent high quality but that doesn't happen.

 

Neat trick. You said so much without saying anything. Again...your argument is purely anecdotal and is based on nothing solid. Nice try, thanks for playing.

[Susan]

I have enjoyed this dialogue a lot. I am 49 and a former Med Tech. My applications are in and I am just waiting to hear back. I am very hopeful that my life experiences, community service and education will help me get an invitation to interview. I want to be a PA because I want to do more. I like making a difference in people's health and wellness by doing a thorough (aka: perfect job) in the lab. But I miss patient contact. I look forward to being accepted into a program and moving forward in my education. I am the mother of 3 teen boys, so the stress part is not a concern for me. Got that already. :smile: I believe that if you have the passion and the drive and have done your homework, and still want to be a PA, that the timing will work out. Good luck!

[Susan]

Ok, revision to my first sentence: up until 8pm yesterday I enjoyed the dialogue going on about age and PA programs. It took a weird twist and I hope we can bring the topic back to the one at hand.

[Boatswain2PA]

Sometimes contrarian views are not well tolerated so allow me to help make it go down smoother.

 

Highly variable quality dilutes the brand. The MDs recognized this problem when they commissioned the Flexner report. The result was to cement the Doctor brand in the minds of the public as the highest level of medical care.

 

People complain frequently about the disrespect PAs received and the inherent problems associated with our title. Part of the problem is that PAs have no brand identity. One factor, of many, that prevents the establishment of a brand is the highly variable quality of PA education.

 

Th NCCPA is supposed to serve as a monitor to ensure the same consistent high quality but that doesn't happen.

 

Excellent points, especially the reference to the Flexner report. The one way the NP profession could completely put us out of business is if they did a "Flexner" type report and fixed their woefully poor educational process like the physicians did a hundred years ago. Our profession grew very well under the direct guidance of physicians (as when the Board of Medical Examiner's initiated and administered the PANCE). The creation of the PAEA/NCCPA to standardize the education and profession was also a good thing. However, as you pointed out, this allows the "brand name" of every PA to be as low as the PAEA standards...and if the PAEA/NCCPA is allowing new schools to open and operate without sufficiently experienced faculty or preceptor sites, then it hurts all of us.

 

I would like to make two points for the OP: First, what puts you under a great deal of stress wouldn't necessarily stress me out, and vice versa. Some of us deal well in a chaotic, acutely stressful environment such as an emergency room, but would be forced into alcoholism and early retirement if forced to undergo the stress of sitting and babysitting infusion patients all day long. Fortunately for any PA, or prospective PA such as yourself, you can find jobs anywhere along this spectrum. In other words, don't worry about the stress of a PA career. If you make it into and through school, you can find a position that matches your stress requirements.

 

Second point concerns the age. PA school at 40 is not too hard. I entered at 40 and graduated at 42. However you have to look closely at all of the ancillary factors. Your health, family, finances, goals, etc. Can you forego 2-3 years worth of income to go to school? Can you afford to pay the increasingly exorbitant tuition/fees of a PA program? It is one thing for a 25 year old to graduate with $100K in student loans, quite another thing for a 43 year old to graduate with the same debt. Do you have a family that you can spend that much time away from? Will they give you time/space to study at home? Etc, etc, etc, etc. Bottom line is it's not the age, it's all the various things that make a 40 year old different than a 23 year old.

 

Good luck, and let us know what you decide and how it goes!

[donandjeanine]

Knight,

 

I don't have anything substantive to add as far as experience in the field, but felt compelled to respond. I am 41 years old and was just accepted into a program that starts in January. After 20 years of playing around with my undergrad degree, I recently completed my bachelors so that I could apply to PA school. My wife, three kids, and I will have to move, kids will have to attend a new school, and wife will have to seek new employment to support me during my time of unemployment. Additionally, I am giving up 12 years of tenure with a company that pays me a great annual salary while accumulating $$$ in debt. Why would I do this? Because I want to be a PA. I guess my point is that, in my opinion, age and timing are nothing. I recognize that everybody's situations are different and some will not agree with me. But, I believe that if you want to be a PA, then being in your 40's is irrelevant.

 

Don

[Houstonian]

My concern is that you indicate you don't like stressful jobs. Any interesting PA position is going to be stressful. If you are in an outpatient setting, you will have about 15 minutes to see each patient, including documentation. If you are in an inpatient setting, you will be working with sick, complicated patients...and under significant time stress. If you work in surgery, every minute in the OR is critical. And if you work in pediatrics, you will be dealing with many anxious, worried parents. Also, you will be expected to function as a physician, but without the training of a physician (i.e. no residency program and shortened academic program). For a lower stress position, I guess you could consider dermatology or psychiatry or even clinical research as fields to work in. You should seriously consider these issues before committing to the field.

[UGoLong]

I echo Houstonian. While most jobs have stress, few jobs have the consequences of our jobs. There are the time and money pressures of many jobs, but -- in all obviousness -- we are dealing with lives:

 

1. As an engineer, we stayed up all night working on a report and finished it 30 minutes before the client showed up. We survived on nervous energy, Donettes, and coffee. We took showers in the employee gym before the client arrived and were happy when he left.

 

2. As a PA, it's the end of what has turned into a 14 hour day and you arrive at the bedside of last-minute consult. It's a patient who has been admitted with decompensated congestive heart failure. All of his meds are the wrong ones for him and his anxious family is at the bedside. You'd like a chance to pee and run home for a warm meal with your wife. Can you disappoint this patient and his family? Not a chance.

 

Both cases represent stress. In the first, the client never built the system we described in our report. In the second, the patient recovered and went home.

 

If you don't want stress, it might be better to pick a different career, or at least a treatment setting. If you want satisfaction however -- in my opinion -- I've never had a job that holds a candle with this one.

[whoRyou]

[MedievalKnight8]

Thanks everyone for the further comments, opinions and insights.  They are all helpful and I truly appreciate it.  I've decided to get my EMT and some experience and go from there, while I continue to take the pre-requisite courses.  We'll see how it turns out.

[PPGfan]

MedievalKnight8:  My first day of PA Classes was on my 45th birthday.  I moved three hours away from my husband and two kids (5th and 11th grades) while my oldest two simultaneously began their college Freshman years, also about 3-5 hours away from me.  It can be done.  As another post eluded to; your age should not be a factor-- that time will pass anyway.

I was an RN for many years prior to becoming a PA-C.....Having worked on the floors and in the ER; my conclusion is stress is NOT measured by the work setting; stress is measured by how it is perceived by the individual.  The nurse caring and juggling 20 patients on the floor could be as stressed out as the nurse caring for 2-4 critical ER patients (Or NOT!)  So, to ask if working as a PA is stressful; I would say that it is no more stressful than any other profession.  You will be educated and equipped with the knowledge and 'tools' that you will need to succeed and enjoy your new profession.  Find the area of medicine that interests you; the work setting that you are happy with; and fly from there!

 

I have been practicing just over 2 years now (ortho); still learning loads and I have Never regretted my decision to become a PA!!  I have easily 20 years to practice ahead of me and am just getting started in my wonderful "second" career!!

 

Let us know how things go for you!  Best wishes......and remember:  Life Begins at the Edge of Your Comfort Zone!!

[skyblu]

Yes, you can do it after 40. I was 35 when I went back to school, graduated at almost 38. There were many people older than me in my class. I love every day of my job and feel so blessed to have gone back to Medicine and to get the opportunity to learn so much each day! It's not an easy way to make a living, but it is my passion, and getting paid to do what I love is simply incredible.

 

Yes, it is stressful. In my field (EM), SUPER stressful. Today I managed an evisceration that walked in 20 minutes before the end of my shift, in my little community hospital with one doc, one PA and 3 RNs as the only ED staff. No trauma surgery. Had to call home to tell my husband to keep our dinner guests entertained while I kept my hand inside a human being's abdominal cavity to keep his guts from falling out. Simultaneously fighting with our surgeon who argued he's not a trauma surgeon so he can't help. Not a typical day, but not as atypical as one would hope.

 

If you do decide to be a PA, emergency medicine does not sound like a good fit for you. It is chaotic. You have to thrive in chaos. A specialty where maintained attention span, planning and a controlled environment are preferable would be a better fit.

[rcreek]

I think the biggest shock to an older student will be the poor quality of PA education ...

 

 

I am sorry that was your experience, but it is not representative of most programs. There are good ones are bad ones out there. I wish that ARC-PA would bring the hammer down on programs as poor as the one you describe. Thankfully, mine is the exact opposite.

 

To comment on the original topic - so far I know of one classmate who will be joining me in my program who is over 40 years old, and there may be more I have yet to meet. It can be done!

[whoRyou]

... so far I know of one classmate who will be joining me in my program who is over 40 years old, and there may be more I have yet to meet. It can be done!

I will be one of those late bloomer PA's  

[KMLight]

Did you go back to school? I am 41 and just starting me pre-requisites. I work in IT at a hospital and want to be a PA. I am thinking of becoming a surgical tech for a few years and applying for the 20/21 cycle (my kids will be in high school at that point)

I was thinking of doing CNA work for a few years but, not sure I can live off of that salary. I'm curious what you decided? Did you go back to become a PA at 41? I'm 41, I probably wouldn't start school for another 3-4 years, so I'll be closer to 44.

[Boatswain2PA]

KML - it's doable, but you should look at the costs involved and your chances of getting in.  What are grades, what's your financial situation (you don't want to be 44 with >$100K in student loan debt), cost of living, etc.  Remember, many people spend a few years getting pre-req's done, and then don't ever get accepted.

I was 40 when I started PA program, but had worked for 6 years to get accepted and ready to go.  

[Zach]

On 9/7/2013 at 0:37 PM, PACProvider said:

I think the biggest shock to an older student will be the poor quality of PA education.

Very sorry that you had a disappointing experience, PACProvider, but it sounds like you needed to vet the program you chose to attend a little bit further. Perhaps this is a problem in states that are saturated with PA programs, but PA programs attached to reputable universities are quite good and have MPAS, PhD, MD, DPT, etc. lectures with a wealth of knowledge in their subject matter. 

I'm honestly a little bit surprised your program was able to maintain its accreditation. 

OP, applying to PA school at this stage in your life may not make the most financial sense, but go for it! Despite all of her sage financial advice, I think it's Suze Orman who says spend whatever money you have to get yourself doing what you're going to find fulfilling and exciting. You only get one life!

[BruceBanner]

I cannot imagine doing the school thing in my 40's. 

Cost alone would be prohibitive for me.

We had I think 3 non-trad students in our program, all over 40. They all struggled with the sheer volume of material and rote memorization more than the fresh-out-of-college crowd. One guy didn't make it.

Not to dissuade you, but for the cost and time involved, the grass isnt always greener.

 

[sas5814]

We I went in the Army so, because of the requirements to get in, most of us were a little older. We had a reservist who was over 50 and she did fine. In addition to the PA school we had to do "Army training" as well. Physical training before class at 5:30, had to do range qualification, take a PT test every 6 months, some short field problems for other military type training.

Now what we didn't have to worry about were all the financial issues civilian students have. We had a place to live, health and dental care, a paycheck etc. Our rotations were arranged with no input or work on our part.

In any case age shouldn't be the first and last consideration. If you are otherwise prepared and have the right mind set you can do well. Sometimes a little maturity is a good thing.

[south]

I went in my mid-40s as well.  There are a few advantages and a few disadvantages, but nothing you would not find very obvious.  

And just for the record, my (pretty highly regarded) program was laughably poor.  They went out of their way to make it difficult and were very proud of that. 

[sas5814]

Yea there is a difference between making it academically challenging and just making it hard. We had a zero tolerance program for grades. Anything at anytime dropped below 80 average you were shown the door. I often felt like our military instructors were there to make it hard not help us succeed. 

[KMLight]

On 9/27/2017 at 3:01 PM, Boatswain2PA said:

KML - it's doable, but you should look at the costs involved and your chances of getting in.  What are grades, what's your financial situation (you don't want to be 44 with >$100K in student loan debt), cost of living, etc.  Remember, many people spend a few years getting pre-req's done, and then don't ever get accepted.

I was 40 when I started PA program, but had worked for 6 years to get accepted and ready to go.  

I actually just got a position in the hospital, as a Medical Assistant, in the Medical Transplant Group. Taking a 75 % cut in pay, working 20 hours a week and starting pre-req's. In 1 year I will be 1500 clinical hours and hopefully, all 8 classes, to apply for the Oct. 2019 deadline. My husband and family are supporting me financially through the change. Goal is to get in so I can start in June of 2020. By That time, I'll be 44 but, it is just a number.  My husband and I are thinking of downsizing, since we do have two kids, ages 12 and 13 and cost of living is high where we live. This MA job fell into my lap. I took it as a sign , to move forward with the change. 

[Boatswain2PA]

KML - Congrats on the position.

As we get older it becomes much more important to do a formal and complete cost-benefit analysis of going back to school.

Society keeps telling people "college is good", and "age doesn't matter"...when both are not necessarily accurate.

Your 41 now.  Let's play some hypotheticals.  Let's say you left a $60K/year job and are now making $15K/year. 

f you had stayed in that job for the next 3 years you would have made $180K.  

Now compare that to you getting into PA school.  You will only make $15K in first year, then zero in next two years.

Now let's say you have to go $100K in debt to get through PA school.

Three years from now you're down $265,000 by going to PA school.  ($165K in opportunity cost ($180K in lost income - $15K in income) plus the $100K for PA school))

How much will you then make as a PA?  You infer you're in a high COL area, where PAs often don't make that much.  Let's say you make $100K/year.  That's only $40K/year more than your former job....it won't be until your FIFTH YEAR PRACTICING (when you are 49 years old) before you break even financially, and that is not considering any investment growth of money you could have invested making $60K/year instead of being in PA program/paying off student loan debt.

So you're 49 before you even break even and can start pushing toward retirement....

Now these numbers may not remotely look like the numbers in your life....but you (and EVERYONE else) should run this type of scenario before making such decisions.

Good luck!

[AUXEMS]

I'm thinking of going back to school to get my PA and i'm 43 with a Undergrad in BA in History and Social science. I'm looking at doing Post bac pre pa and then PA school. I'm currently working with the US Coast Guard as an Auxiliarist and FEDEX. I'm looking at post bac because my Undergrad GPA was not good but going post bac may help me towards going PA school.

[ohiovolffemtp]

UGoLong and I both had similar trajectories:  he was an engineer, I did IT.  We both had done volunteer and/or paid EMS (with fire in my case).  We both went back in our 50's for the prereqs, then did PA school.  We both got our licenses in our 50's and are still at it.  It certainly can be done.  We "adult learners" do learn differently - more by experience.  It makes all the memorization that's needed in the didactic portion of PA school harder.

I got my license at 55.  As for the economics, I'm now making about 1.9x what I made in IT.  So, it was worth it.  I'm also on 1/2 of my corporate IT level of anti-hypertensives.  So, it was REALLY worth it.

[AUXEMS]

8 hours ago, ohiovolffemtp said:

UGoLong and I both had similar trajectories:  he was an engineer, I did IT.  We both had done volunteer and/or paid EMS (with fire in my case).  We both went back in our 50's for the prereqs, then did PA school.  We both got our licenses in our 50's and are still at it.  It certainly can be done.  We "adult learners" do learn differently - more by experience.  It makes all the memorization that's needed in the didactic portion of PA school harder.

I got my license at 55.  As for the economics, I'm now making about 1.9x what I made in IT.  So, it was worth it.  I'm also on 1/2 of my corporate IT level of anti-hypertensives.  So, it was REALLY worth it.

Thanks, I am looking at doing all the Science prereqs this summer either at a Post bac Pre PA school or a Local Community college that's being funded by both FEEX and the USCG. Being 43, in the USCG and having an EMT with the USCG & vol with a Local EMS squad & having a college degree, I have more life experience and have seen it all. One question, which is better for PA School, Organic chem or Bio chem