Job outlook and ability to find one?

[Boatswain2PA]

There is an association between "CMS patients" and the type of patients that bohuntr labeled "losers". Again, association does not equal causation, and association does mean "equals", but there is, indeed, an association. It is "poor practice" to not understand what the term "association" means because it is incredibly important in risk stratification.

 

You could probably "communicate your feeling" in any way you want without offending bohunter. I doubt he would be the type to get his feelings hurt, or start "fuming" because of your opinion.

 

And lastly, while I think bohunter used indelicate language, it was clear to me that he was just venting. We all do it sometimes.

[Guest JMPA]

No, I was fuming because of the unabashed and untempered display of vitriol. Not to mention the palpable hubris. I just found it thoroughly off-putting and couldn't help but think that I would hate to be under the care of a medical practitioner with that mindset.

 

Also, you insinuated that it's ok to associate "CMS patients" and "losers." Seems like an awfully poor practice, associating certain patient populations with such a negative descriptor. That sort of mindset inevitably affects the way a practitioner approaches a patient population, and how they treat and speak of that group (which is what led to this discussion in the first place).

 

Also, it probably would have been easier for me to communicate my feelings on the subject via the use of a descriptor that I feel aptly characterizes the kind of person that would post something like that online, but I wouldn't want to offend anyone on the forum via the use of mild vulgarities. :;;D:

 

ah younging, wait till you work and your tune will change, tis the difference between fiction and non-fiction

[wjm7]

I was looking forward to this sort of patronizing response. I knew that it was only a post or two away. I could just feel it.

[wjm7]

There is an association between "CMS patients" and the type of patients that bohuntr labeled "losers". Again, association does not equal causation, and association does mean "equals", but there is, indeed, an association. It is "poor practice" to not understand what the term "association" means because it is incredibly important in risk stratification.

 

I appreciate the education. I've always been overwhelmed by how difficult a concept "association" is. Throw causation in the mix, and yikes! I was wandering aimlessly in a world of confusion and conceptual darkness, but you've led me to the light. I now proudly understand the most basic of statistical concepts! It's just a wonder that my graduate level biostatistics course (from a previous master's degree) didn't lead me to this knowledge earlier in life. Go figure. Well, at least NOW I'll have a chance at risk stratifying appropriately! Crossing my fingers...

[Boatswain2PA]

I appreciate the education. I've always been overwhelmed by how difficult a concept "association" is. Throw causation in the mix, and yikes! I was wandering aimlessly in a world of confusion and conceptual darkness, but you've led me to the light. I now proudly understand the most basic of statistical concepts! It's just a wonder that my graduate level biostatistics course (from a previous master's degree) didn't lead me to this knowledge earlier in life. Go figure. Well, at least NOW I'll have a chance at risk stratifying appropriately! Crossing my fingers...

 

Okay bmayo. You have everything figured out. Good luck. I think you're going to need it, but what do I know! lol

[Corpsman2PA]

So you are conveying that the opinions of many PAs that provide these "myopic interpretations of supposed trends" are erroneous and would vehemently deny a pre-pa performing due diligence without you having acquired a position as a PA. Intriguing indeed.

No I'm not conveying that; this pre-PA developed this interpretation, never did I say it was provided by a PA. Don't mix up my words. I'm simply conveying that an "Armageddon" outlook on PA jobs is flawed, whereas a local market outlook is more applicable. Like I said, the jobs will be there for the right applicant. I congratulate this person for being interested, but to draw a conclusion to their question before all the data are collected is, again, not the way to go about job market research. Somebody in an NP saturated local market will scream that there's no PA jobs and our profession is doomed, while somebody in a different market with no NPs around will have a hard time choosing what job to take. Again, my advice to the OP...worry about getting into school at this point. Markets change, and what you observe now may be different in 3 years.

[wjm7]

Okay bmayo. You have everything figured out. Good luck. I think you're going to need it, but what do I know! lol

 

Far from it. I agree completely, a little luck won't hurt. But for the record, I readily recognize areas that I have deficiencies, and I'm eager to learn from anyone that can teach me. But I disagree completely with the idea that his comments were defensible. There is a basic philosophical difference at play, and in my opinion, that guy sounded like a complete a$$. :=D:

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

No I'm not conveying that; this pre-PA developed this interpretation, never did I say it was provided by a PA. Don't mix up my words. I'm simply conveying that an "Armageddon" outlook on PA jobs is flawed, whereas a local market outlook is more applicable. Like I said, the jobs will be there for the right applicant. I congratulate this person for being interested, but to draw a conclusion to their question before all the data are collected is, again, not the way to go about job market research. Somebody in an NP saturated local market will scream that there's no PA jobs and our profession is doomed, while somebody in a different market with no NPs around will have a hard time choosing what job to take. Again, my advice to the OP...worry about getting into school at this point. Markets change, and what you observe now may be different in 3 years.

 

Never implicated that you did say it. I'm stating that the information came from PAs on other threads. The OP drew no conclusion from my perspective, which is why they were presenting the question and not making statements. They observed experienced PAs making statements about poor job outlook and came for confirmation.

 

Will the market change in 3 years? Yep. Should that preclude a prospect from gathering opinions to try and forecast what that market will be? No. It is a problem in some areas, as you've mentioned, and it is only reasonable to research if that problem would spread.

 

Since we are all going to work for corporations soon, the right applicant in the future may be the one who requires less paper work. Depending on the state, that may be an NP. As an aside, I see the profession adapting eventually and PAs remaining competitive.

[Houstonian]

Job markets change all the time. When I graduated from PA school (in the Dark Ages) few people even knew what a PA was and jobs were few. It wasn't until the mid 1980's that federal policy included PA's in reimbursement for Medicare patients and then private insurance followed suit. More recently Money magazine cited the PA profession as one of the best jobs in the US. So many more PA programs have opened up-- many that are NOT associated with medical schools.

 

However, Obamacare will provide many more patients with the opportunity to have health insurance; most physicians specialize, rather than enter primary care, and the US populace, employers, and insurance companies are demanding affordable care. These trends bode well for the PA profession. However, do not underestimate the power of federal and state policy, which can negatively impact PA prospects by regulating reimbursement rates and scope of practice.

[FSUnoles]

As a new grad in a saturated market i cant help but be discouraged by my situation. I entered this journey to avoid the situation im currently in. Just another unemployed person trying to fight their way into a job. I got trapped during rotations because my school had no sites in my area and ended up sending me and the 5 other students in my area to the same rotations (there goes finding work via that route) I thought by the time i got out finding a job would be easy and i would have multiple interviews and could chose the best place for me. Sadly im applying to anything that comes up (along with most of my other geographically locked peers) Everyone who could relocate back to their hometowns landed great pay and benefits. The pockets of low pay low availability areas in our profession are frustrating to say the least.

[Davo]

I thanked him for his time and for wasting mine, took several drinks out of the refrigerator in the lounge, a handful of cookies and as many sandwiches off the tray that I could cram into my backpack and left. He may have wasted my time, but I got several days of Jimmy John's and soft drinks!!

 

As both a PA and a Paramedic, and Im so disappointed to hear things like this-and from a professional no less.

[ventana]

 

Or how about the dental pain patient(s) that have been seen 4 and 5 times in the ED over the past year. They know exactly what they are going to get for their abscess (which is caused by teeth rotten off from sucking on the meth pipe) - amox & 3 lortabs. They have also been told 4-5 times that they need to go to a dentist to have that tooth (or, more likely, those teeth) pulled. They always say "but I can't afford to go to the dentist", yet they can afford a $5-$6/day nicotine habit. These folks get a little brutal honesty from me. If you stop smoking cigarettes, and perhaps even put down the meth pipe, then you would probably have enough money to go to the dentist and get your damn teeth pulled.

 

 

 

 

 

W H A T ???????????

 

No No and No

 

 

STOP giving drugs to drug addicts

 

 

Motrin 800 WORKS BETTER FOR DENTAL PAIN

 

 

 

Man it just kills me when ER folks gripe about the patients but it is their own behavior that creates the problems...... If you are drug addict with bad teeth and no money, and you know that you can get 3 perc or vic's from the ER if you go - that is legal drug abuse

 

 

 

JUST STOP GIVING OPIATES TO THESE PATIENTS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Offer them I&D if there is pocket, offer a dental block, call the DMD office for an appointment, but for heavens sake DO NOT GIVE THEM OPIATES!

 

 

 

It is bad for the patient, bad for the ER in the long run, bad for the system, bad for the PCP's who have to deal with it.....

 

Since you pride yourself on being blunt I figured I would extend the same........ stop giving drugs to drug addicts with "soft" complaints of pain - there teeth have been like that for the past 10-20 years, they just want their fix.....

[jsfelder0417]

This is so good.

[Tpaul2]

Wow, I thought this would be a dead thread.

 

Thanks for all the input in regards to the orginal post!

[Boatswain2PA]

 

STOP giving drugs to drug addicts

 

Motrin 800 WORKS BETTER FOR DENTAL PAIN

 

Man it just kills me when ER folks gripe about the patients but it is their own behavior that creates the problems...... If you are drug addict with bad teeth and no money, and you know that you can get 3 perc or vic's from the ER if you go - that is legal drug abuse

 

JUST STOP GIVING OPIATES TO THESE PATIENTS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

 

Offer them I&D if there is pocket, offer a dental block, call the DMD office for an appointment, but for heavens sake DO NOT GIVE THEM OPIATES!

 

It is bad for the patient, bad for the ER in the long run, bad for the system, bad for the PCP's who have to deal with it.....

 

Since you pride yourself on being blunt I figured I would extend the same........ stop giving drugs to drug addicts with "soft" complaints of pain - there teeth have been like that for the past 10-20 years, they just want their fix.....

 

Who said anything about drug addicts? Dental pain sucks. I I&D if there is a pocket, but generally don't do dental blocks because they only last 4-6 hours....not enough time for the ABX to start working. I'm in rural America with one dentist in town....takes MONTHS to get into him as a new patient (and, unlike the ER, he absolutely won't see you if you don't have money up front).

 

Your treatment plan is reasonable. But it is also reasonable to give someone a total of 15 mg of hydrocodone (3 lortab 5/500) to treat their acute pain until the ABX can kick in. I guarantee giving someone a total of 15 mg of hydrocodone isn't "creating the problem".

[EMEDPA]

a good dental block with marcaine with epi can last 8+ hrs.

I agree with ventana. no narcs for dental pain pts who you suspect of meth use. I tend to use naproxen/abx/dental block/I+D if applicable.

if it has been going on for 2 weeks it is not an emergency at 3:30 am on a friday night.

I do agree with Boatswain on the point that if they can afford cigs they can affords their abx rx ( and the 5-10 dollar donation to get into the local free clinic dental van). one of the few things my sponsoring physician will send me a nasty gram over is narcs without a clear indication. sure, if the guy just got hit in the face with a bat and lost a bunch of teeth I will spot him a few vicodin tabs but chronic neck/back pain, dental pain, etc and they are out of luck..