welkerkz Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hey all, this is my first post, and I am hoping for some advice on a situation I am in. I am about to start my first job in orthopedic surgery and there is going to be a waiting period between the time I pass the PANCE and the time I am licensed. My future employer would like me to start as soon as possible however my contracted salary will not begin until I have my license. They are willing to pay me for my time prior to getting my license so I will be there to get into the groove of things and start learning. We do not have an agreed upon compensation yet and I was wondering what the norm is and how much I should ask to be compensated for my time prior to my contract salary starting. I will be working in a suburb of a large city. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 so, you will not be working as a PA, and will be functioning as a student. there is no norm here. first, will state laws allow you, without . presumably, any license or certification, to even touch a patient? Round with the docs??? or will you be observing only? I would suggest that, if you will be actually doing something (observing, learning the systematics of the office, hopefully getting to start to apply casts and splints under direct supervision) that $15/hour is reasonable. not, mind you, desirable, but reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 16, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 16, 2013 humm you you are going to be hired as an unlicensed medical assistant There is benefit to both of you on this side..... I would actually think a bit more then $15 as in fact you are basically doing the training at a reduced rate (you could wait till license comes through and then get the full rate to get training) - and you have a PA degree afterall..... don't sell yourself short as your time is worth something.... I would say that 2/3 of the contract rate seems fair - with benefits if available. somewhere in the $30/hour range -- but would put a max time frame on it - ie one month, or getting license, just to clearly define the expectations..... MAKE SURE you don't do anything that a unlicensed medical assistant could not do... liability insurance is of issue, but honestly the doc is on the hook.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 humm you you are going to be hired as an unlicensed medical assistant There is benefit to both of you on this side..... I would actually think a bit more then $15 as in fact you are basically doing the training at a reduced rate (you could wait till license comes through and then get the full rate to get training) - and you have a PA degree afterall..... don't sell yourself short as your time is worth something.... I would say that 2/3 of the contract rate seems fair - with benefits if available. somewhere in the $30/hour range -- but would put a max time frame on it - ie one month, or getting license, just to clearly define the expectations..... MAKE SURE you don't do anything that a unlicensed medical assistant could not do... liability insurance is of issue, but honestly the doc is on the hook.. ( ven.. you would pay 60k yrly equiv to an unlicensed assistant which cannot do anything?.. the fact vis that he has a PA certificate, but cannot even call himself a PA until he passes PANCE.. ) his options are to not make any salary at all and to wait till PANCE and state license are in.) doesn't hurt to ask though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welkerkz Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Thanks for the replies, I will essentially be stuck in the no mans land, I will have passed my PANCE but have no license. I will have less functioning capability of a student actually, unable to really even touch a patient. However, as many of you know observation and learning from the doc is going to be huge, especially with my first job. I should be able to round the hospital, observe clinic, and surgery as well. I am under the impression that my pay will actually be quite low as well. Unfortunately I think credentialing with the hospitals and may have to take place after the license is through as well which could lead to further delay. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Thanks for the replies, I will essentially be stuck in the no mans land, I will have passed my PANCE but have no license. I will have less functioning capability of a student actually, unable to really even touch a patient. However, as many of you know observation and learning from the doc is going to be huge, especially with my first job. I should be able to round the hospital, observe clinic, and surgery as well. I am under the impression that my pay will actually be quite low as well. Unfortunately I think credentialing with the hospitals and may have to take place after the license is through as well which could lead to further delay. Thanks get going on your credentials NOW.. here in SC and NC, they taken about 40-90 days.. probably the lesser for you as you do not have a lot of previous hospitals for them to contact. If you haven't already, start getting those LORs in, make and certify copies of all diplomas (ridiculous requirement in the age of e-verify), have your office staff start getting your insurance paperwork in.. yada yada. btw, this is exactly what happens if you unexpected leave your job and have to find a new one.. expect 60-90 days for new credentials, insurance paperwork, state license, etc. all without pay.. so don't get gone unexpectedly without a ready second job to fall back on.. jump on the state license.. so that you can get all the forms completed.. including your DEA. although you are chomping at the bit, remember, until all the boxes have checks in them, there aint much you can do.. sooo... read a little, drink some sweet tea, exercise, enjoy the last true "careless" time you will have in your adult life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 16, 2013 Moderator Share Posted July 16, 2013 ( ven.. you would pay 60k yrly equiv to an unlicensed assistant which cannot do anything?.. the fact vis that he has a PA certificate, but cannot even call himself a PA until he passes PANCE.. ) his options are to not make any salary at all and to wait till PANCE and state license are in.) doesn't hurt to ask though.... correct - $60k per year The fact of the matter is it is beneficial to both the employer and employee It is no the 80-100k for a licensed PA but they are saving paying that rate for the first month of training when the PA will actually slow down the SP. Also, it goes to the idea of a negotiation - why bid yourself down? If you only ask for $15 that is not worth working in my mind, minus well stay at home and have vacation till get licensed. Also, it goes to the larger topic of PA pay in general - granted not directly linked as no license, but we should not be short changing ourselves. Do you think a Doc works for $15/hour while their license is coming through? seriously I have seen doc's just take a vacation to avoid the whole thing... The employer might be just fine with saving 10-20 dollars per hour for a month while he trains. Another point, and a reason to not start until you are licensed, by opening this door of lower pay they might try to use this more in the future.... ie credentials and the like..... Just take time off and relax ---- or go for a reasonable rate of pay.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welkerkz Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 Can you start credentialing with all the hospitals without your license though? I didnt know if they need that little bit of info until they can credential you properly. I cant apply for my state license until I have my PANCE results anyways. Its all part of a hurry up and wait game which sucks. As far as the pay goes, I agree I think I am worth much more than 15$ and hour considering the knowledge I will be gaining will lead to tons of money and independence for both me and the company in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdavis Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Can you start credentialing with all the hospitals without your license though? I didnt know if they need that little bit of info until they can credential you properly. I cant apply for my state license until I have my PANCE results anyways. Its all part of a hurry up and wait game which sucks. sure.. get the forms, start filling out as much as you can.. start getting all the required supplemental documentation (PAV schools are NORTOTIOUSLY slow in sending transcripts!!).. these things you can do while you are in a downtime situation As far as the pay goes, I agree I think I am worth much more than 15$ and hour considering the knowledge I will be gaining will lead to tons of money and independence for both me and the company in the future. I do not necessarily disagree.. I am just telling you what the business folks are gonna say : what? pay him for learning which benefits him, but not us? you could, however, make the sale couched in terms that the salary is an investment, which, while as negative draw now, will be paid back sooner because of less "learning time" when you do come on full salary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickitabanana Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 FWIW, two of my classmates started working at The Cleveland Clinic for 90% of their salary while they waited to be credentialed (and also for their licenses, I believe). One of them joked that he was allowed to do more when he was a student than he could as an actual PA-C. Granted, CCF is an enormous hospital with a ton of money and that doesn't seem to be what you're dealing with, but just throwing it out there. Are you working in the clinic while you wait for hospital credentialing? If so, once you get your license you should be able to see clinic patients for your full salary even if you can't do anything in the hospital, yet. What state are you working in? New York only took about 2 weeks for my license to come in, but others can take 1-2 months. If you're only waiting a week or so then it shouldn't matter much since it's such a short amount of time, but a couple of months is important. I agree that $15/hr is too low. I made that as a medical assistant before I even started PA school. I second everyone who said to get started on anything you can now. Fill out all the paperwork and have everything sent in that you can like transcripts, diploma copies, etc.. Make sure to tell NCCPA to send your scores to the state licensing board and they should go out the day you get the email with your PANCE results. And follow up with the hospital, state licensing board, controlled substance division, etc. Seriously, nag them. My "missing documents" for my state license were sitting in the unopened mail for two weeks. After that got sorted out it still hadn't been processed because the person forgot to check off one of the boxes. If I hadn't called them every week to check on the status I'd probably still be waiting! Also, most states allow you to apply for a temporary license while you away your PANCE results. Once of my friends did that and started going in once a week after graduation to shadow/learn the routine while she studied for boards. After she passed the PANCE she had to apply for her real license (which ends up costing more since you have to pay for both, but it's an option). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welkerkz Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 I wont necessarily be working independently or anything, I will be essentially attached to the hip of my doc so I can start learning as much as possible, both in clinic and the hospital. Good point about working in the clinic even if all my hospital stuff isnt through. I will be working in Illinois, I have seen anywhere from 4-8 weeks for licensing, which could lead to a pretty significant change in how much I would make in the time period based on what I will be making. In Illinois you cant apply for your license until you pass the PANCE I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proballr32 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I also took an ortho position straight out of school where the doc wanted me to start immediately. Difference was I had already passed the PANCE, but was waiting on my state license to go through. He paid me $60k while I was waiting on the state license (which took 4-6 weeks if I recall correctly), and during that time he had me be glued to his side. He was VERY particular in the way he wanted things done, so it was vital that I learned HIS ways. I couldn't touch a patient, but that initial month or so allowed my to learn the EHR and I was allowed to "review" notes at the end of the day. Looking back, it wasn't a bad way to start a first job out of school. By the time my state license was granted, I was already completely comfortable with his protocols and the EHR. Very smooth transition. I was then bumped up $100k once I was granted my state license. Hope this helps. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grinder993 Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 I do not necessarily disagree.. I am just telling you what the business folks are gonna say : what? pay him for learning which benefits him, but not us? you could, however, make the sale couched in terms that the salary is an investment, which, while as negative draw now, will be paid back sooner because of less "learning time" when you do come on full salary... Seriously $15/hr for a PA that has graduated and passed his PANCE, just waiting for licensure. That is funny. I agree with the others, I would take a vacation before even wasting my time for that kind of reimbursement. As far as the business folks you mention saying "pay him for learning which benefits him but not us?" I would say this, if they take that position, this is not a company you want to work for...walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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