Red1982 Posted December 23, 2010 I am hoping for direction from professional PAs currently in the field. I am applying for PA school now. I currently hold a Master's Degree in Counseling as well as a National Certification in Counseling. I also held a specialized certification in addiction counseling in the past. In 2008 I was given permission to complete a diagnositic evaluation on a personal friend on a holiday when limited staff was availabe in an effort to admit this friend into treatment. The permission was granted by a supervisor and documented. A coworker felt this was a vioaltion of the dual relationship ethics code and reported that to my second certification board in 2010. My certification was suspended and I was required to complete 30 hours in boundary supervision to maintain this certification. The inicident did not effect my other certification. My question, will this cause me problems as a PA? Will I face questions on the suspension of a certification when applying for a PA certification or license? I would rather know now than invest the money in school only to be unable to become certified. Any information will be very helpful and greatly appreciated. Thank you.
unewillow Posted December 23, 2010 It may since I believe it's something you have to report...maybe not in PA School, but definately when applying for state licensure. I would definately be honest about it and be ready to defend what happened.
sbellin Posted December 23, 2010 It will also play a role in any insurance and hospital credentialing process. There is always a question about whether you have ever have had limitations placed upon you. I agree with unewillow that honesty is best.
doubledown10 Posted December 23, 2010 Full disclosure is always the best way to go. If you don't include it on an application that asks for it and you get found out, your integrity is done and so is your education. For school it won't matter, but when you apply for a state license, you better be ready to document what happened and what the outcome was. Plenty of people I know get DUIs and get a license. I know one dude that punched a cop in the face and he got credentialed at our hospital. So it's not a deal breaker, just don't lie about it and you should be good. I see no reason for why it would stop you from going to school.
LESH Posted December 23, 2010 Disclaimer: I am in the field (since dirt..lol), I have chaired four PA program ADCOMs, I have to deal with a state licensing board concerning graduates with "situations". I don't know you so please don't take this personal. Cool? You asked for information. I have seen things like this become problematic when: 1) Getting into a program. Think about what was done. Now think what some ADCOM is thinking. Be prepared to get grilled on this. Just saying. This is a red flag you must prove it is not. 2) Getting a license maybe. Regulatory Boards are funny. I've watched ours for the past 20 years and all I can say is get used to hearing "We look at these situations on a case by case basis." Some states may have questions about past certifications and disciplinary actions on their form for a license. In California they check trust me. If one omits the information and they find out...well you don't want to lie to the government. They don't tolerate that well...lol. I have seen PAs with legal fees up to 70K trying to get their license. 3) A while back I think I remember the NCCPA going through a phase when they were looking hard at past discipliary actions but that was more to do with licenses. 4) It shouldn't impact your ability to rotate at clinical sites while in a program..that's a plus. As a suggestion, taking a HIPPA course and maybe an ethics course will strengthen your application to the program and for a license...just saying. People make mistakes...learning from them is what we look for in applicants. Good luck in your future PAS endeavors. LesH
Moderator ventana Posted December 23, 2010 Moderator tell all might also help to have a signed statement from the supervisor available to you to present as evidence as that other issue that could be unfavorable to you is breach in chain of command (which by the sounds you did not have so defend it). BTW I have no experience with lic boards or ADCOM's so this is just my own thoughts . .. . LESH on the otherhand is someone to listen to.....
chatcat Posted December 23, 2010 In 2008 I was given permission to complete a diagnositic evaluation on a personal friend on a holiday when limited staff was availabe in an effort to admit this friend into treatment. The permission was granted by a supervisor and documented. A coworker felt this was a vioaltion of the dual relationship ethics code and reported that to my second certification board in 2010. My certification was suspended and I was required to complete 30 hours in boundary supervision to maintain this certification. The inicident did not effect my other certification. . I agree with the other posters about full disclosure of this situation. The reality ...you had a professional suspension and regardless of the justification of the action, a professional board found reason to suspend your certification. State medical boards & employers run full background checks so if this information is in the public domain count on it being discovered. . As LESH pointed out...these type situations are handled on a case to case basis by licensing committees so I don't think anyone will give you 100% assurance that this won't ultimately pose a problem. With full disclosure of this suspension of certification you need to be very clear about how you ammended this action and how you have learned from the 30 hours of boundary supervision requirement to prevent another infraction. If your certification was re-instated and you are now in good standing with your professional organization then you have obviously complied with the required disciplinary procedure ? As for the truth about the PA program application.....given 2 applicants of equal academic qualifications,equal clinical experience and one with a history of professional suspension due to poor ethical choices..which one do you think most ADCOM committees will choose? This might not prevent you from getting into a program but please be very aware that this is a serious hurdle to jump .
Red1982 Posted December 23, 2010 Author Thanks again for all the help. I agree full honesty is the way to go, that's why I posted the question. I plan on being fully honest, that being said I wanted to know how this information would effect my ability to get certified following my completion of school. I know I will be able to work in the hospital setting b/c I have since been offered a position with a major hospital in my area and passed a thorough background check with former employers, references, etc. The reason why I question if what happened will effect me is because the ethical standard that I violated is one that applies to counselors and their patients in the mental health/drug and alcohol field only. In that situation you can not have personal relationships, friendships, romantic or any type of relationship with any one admitted in a facility you worked for at any time. The events would not have been an ethical violation in a physical health care field (as opposed to mental health). I just don't want to have this be a problem following school. It would be too much work, money, and basically heartbreak to complete two years of school and not be able to work in the field. Thanks again.
LESH Posted December 23, 2010 The reason why I question if what happened will effect me is because the ethical standard that I violated is one that applies to counselors and their patients in the mental health/drug and alcohol field only. With all due respect, we can argue medical ethics. I've reviewed a case being seen by our PA regulatory board that is about crossing the provider/patient line similar to the one described. Mental Health isn't the only field where this standard (or law) applies. In that situation you can not have personal relationships, friendships, romantic or any type of relationship with any one admitted in a facility you worked for at any time. The events would not have been an ethical violation in a physical health care field (as opposed to mental health). Again with all due respect, there are PAs that could disagree with this statement because besides being an ethical question, it can be a violation of a PA Practice act. I just don't want to have this be a problem following school. It would be too much work, money, and basically heartbreak to complete two years of school and not be able to work in the field. I have to agree, but it's a possibility. Only you can decide if it's worth it. Try and get all your ducks in a row as they say. Contact (write or email "have documented proof") from the PA regulatory board about chances of licensure, get the letters of support (to have on hand at the time of the interview) from the hospital that would hire you. Cat said it best "With full disclosure of this suspension of certification you need to be very clear about how you ammended this action and how you have learned from the 30 hours of boundary supervision requirement to prevent another infraction." and "This might not prevent you from getting into a program but please be very aware that this is a serious hurdle to jump." We don't know you so please take this as friendly advice. I will say you have heard from two ADCOM members now. I'd be curious to see what others recommend. Good luck. LesH
Red1982 Posted December 23, 2010 Author I'm not taking any offense to the information posted, in fact just the opposite, I greatly appreciate ALL input. What happened happened and I'm doing whats needed to be done to correct the situation. I'm still able to work as a counselor in the field without the certification, but I'm completing the boundary supervision to restore it because I feel it's the best thing to do. I did not mean to make excuses with my last statement, it was not my intention at all. I suppose I'm not in the position to be making statements about the ethical standards of the PA profession as I am not a professional in the field. I know that no one can tell my what to do, or what will happen in the future. I guess I just wanted to know if a temporary suspension of a professional certification in a different field would 100% keep me from getting certified as a PA in the future...
chatcat Posted December 23, 2010 The reason why I question if what happened will effect me is because the ethical standard that I violated is one that applies to counselors and their patients in the mental health/drug and alcohol field only. In that situation you can not have personal relationships, friendships, romantic or any type of relationship with any one admitted in a facility you worked for at any time. The events would not have been an ethical violation in a physical health care field (as opposed to mental health). Each quarter the NC Medical Board publishes public notification of all disciplinary actions against those holding a medical license in this state . About 20% of the disciplinary actions are due to violations of ethical codes of conduct relating to inappropriate relationship boundaries with patients. Medical Boards have zero tolerance for clinicians who violate our stated code of ethics and they will suspend a license after due investigation with a mandate of corrective measures to regain a license. The price of poor ethical choices when a profession has clear guidelines to guide behaviors/actions can have severe consequences in medicine.
Red1982 Posted December 23, 2010 Author Is a PA allowed to treat a family member or friend, if not directly can a PA work for a practice where another provider treats their family or friend?
LESH Posted December 23, 2010 Is a PA allowed to treat a family member or friend, if not directly can a PA work for a practice where another provider treats their family or friend? Check laws and regulations of the state where you wish to train and practice. I was trained to avoid this at all cost unless a life threatening emergency...but I'm an AARP PA lol. Others may disagree. I do know, if the patient is not a patient of the SP, in California, you are practicing outside your scope. There was a licensed pulled a few years ago for that one. In answer to your second question I would say yes (at least here), but be careful about HIPPA violations. You have asked some good questions and some interesting questions. Be curious to hear from Andersenpa, Emed and David C. MaryFran, C, and Kargiver. LesH
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