joanna.nola Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Can anyone out there shed some light on this? It seems particularly odd, since the PA profession came out of the military, that NPs are paid so much more than PAs in VA positions, from what I've seen. For instance, compare the 2 below for Psych NPs and Psych PAs. The description are exactly the same. The pay is wildly different. What is even more bizarre, IMHO, is that this job requires an occasional rotation in Medicine Service. This is stated in the PA and NP job description (as they are the same). It doesn't seem to me that a Psych NP would be prepared (or qualified) to work in general medicine, whereas a PA is trained to do just that. Job Title:Physician Assistant (Mental Health) Department:Department Of Veterans Affairs Job Announcement Number:520-JK-12-626073 [TABLE] [TR] [TD]SALARY RANGE: [/TD] [TD]$57,408.00 to $89,450.00 / Per Year[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]OPEN PERIOD: [/TD] [TD]Friday, March 23, 2012 to Friday, July 27, 2012[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]SERIES & GRADE: [/TD] [TD]VN-0603-00[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]POSITION INFORMATION: [/TD] [TD]Full Time - Excepted Service Permanent[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=colspan: 2][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]DUTY LOCATIONS: [/TD] [TD]4 vacancy(s) - Biloxi, MS United StatesView Map[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: [/TD] [TD]United States Citizens[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] JOB SUMMARY: Vacancy Identification Number (VIN): 626073 Salary to be determined by a Professional Standards Board The position serves the Acute Mental Health Unit of the psychiatry service. The successful incumbent, along with three other midlevel practitioners, will cover the needs of the Veterans on this unit during afterhours, weekends and holidays on rotating shifts. An occasional rotation in medicine service is also included. In addition the incumbent will be asked to consult on the psychiatric needs of Veterans admitted to the Facility’s Emergency Department, medical floors and other sections of this 150 bed VA facility. Job Title:Nurse Practitioner (Mental Health) Department:Department Of Veterans Affairs Job Announcement Number:520-JK-12-625789 [TABLE] [TR] [TD]SALARY RANGE: [/TD] [TD]$73,866.00 to $123,135.00 / Per Year[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]OPEN PERIOD: [/TD] [TD]Friday, March 23, 2012 to Friday, July 27, 2012[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]SERIES & GRADE: [/TD] [TD]VN-0610-00[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]POSITION INFORMATION: [/TD] [TD]Full Time - Excepted Service Permanent[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=colspan: 2][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]DUTY LOCATIONS: [/TD] [TD]4 vacancy(s) - Biloxi, MS United StatesView Map[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED: [/TD] [TD]United States Citizens[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] JOB SUMMARY: Vacancy Identification Number (VIN): 625789 Salary: To be determined by a Compensation Panel. The position serves the Acute Mental Health Unit of the psychiatry service. The successful incumbent, along with three other midlevel practitioners, will cover the needs of the Veterans on this unit during afterhours, weekends and holidays on rotating shifts. An occasional rotation in medicine service is also included. In addition the incumbent will be asked to consult on the psychiatric needs of Veterans admitted to the Facility’s Emergency Department, medical floors and other sections of this 150 bed VA facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2012 there is a new position for director of pa services at the va filled by a senior pa. he is making an effort to rectify these issues one site at a time. if you contact him I imagine he would be able to get you the np rate for that or any other specific job you want which is cross posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted July 13, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 13, 2012 VA to VA varies wildly. Personal experience has shown me they differ as much as completely different hospital systems. An NP, PA, or CRNA could be very autonomous, practically independent at one, to slave labor and treated like children at another. So I wouldn't apply this to the whole VA system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanna.nola Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Actually, I'm not interested in this position per se. It's a little too far from home (New Orleans to Biloxi is almost 2 hours). But I think you are right about the differences, Oneal. Even though the VA is building a huge new hospital here (New Orleans), I have yet to see a PA position (or really very many NP positions) advertised. I've checked every few months for the last few years. Then someone told me that in New Orleans they don't really hire PAs. Maybe its because residents work there, too, I think? (there are 2 med schools in this town)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradopa Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Can anyone out there shed some light on this? It seems particularly odd, since the PA profession came out of the military, that NPs are paid so much more than PAs in VA positions, from what I've seen. For instance, compare the 2 below for Psych NPs and Psych PAs. The description are exactly the same. The pay is wildly different. What is even more bizarre, IMHO, is that this job requires an occasional rotation in Medicine Service. This is stated in the PA and NP job description (as they are the same). It doesn't seem to me that a Psych NP would be prepared (or qualified) to work in general medicine, whereas a PA is trained to do just that. Job Title:Physician Assistant (Mental Health) Department:Department Of Veterans Affairs Job Announcement Number:520-JK-12-626073 [TABLE] [TR] [TD]SALARY RANGE:[/TD] [TD]$57,408.00 to $89,450.00 / Per Year[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]OPEN PERIOD:[/TD] [TD]Friday, March 23, 2012 to Friday, July 27, 2012[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]SERIES & GRADE:[/TD] [TD]VN-0603-00[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]POSITION INFORMATION:[/TD] [TD]Full Time - Excepted Service Permanent[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=colspan: 2][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]DUTY LOCATIONS:[/TD] [TD]4 vacancy(s) - Biloxi, MS United StatesView Map[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED:[/TD] [TD]United States Citizens[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] JOB SUMMARY: Vacancy Identification Number (VIN): 626073 Salary to be determined by a Professional Standards Board The position serves the Acute Mental Health Unit of the psychiatry service. The successful incumbent, along with three other midlevel practitioners, will cover the needs of the Veterans on this unit during afterhours, weekends and holidays on rotating shifts. An occasional rotation in medicine service is also included. In addition the incumbent will be asked to consult on the psychiatric needs of Veterans admitted to the Facility’s Emergency Department, medical floors and other sections of this 150 bed VA facility. Job Title:Nurse Practitioner (Mental Health) Department:Department Of Veterans Affairs Job Announcement Number:520-JK-12-625789 [TABLE] [TR] [TD]SALARY RANGE:[/TD] [TD]$73,866.00 to $123,135.00 / Per Year[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]OPEN PERIOD:[/TD] [TD]Friday, March 23, 2012 to Friday, July 27, 2012[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]SERIES & GRADE:[/TD] [TD]VN-0610-00[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]POSITION INFORMATION:[/TD] [TD]Full Time - Excepted Service Permanent[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD=colspan: 2][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]DUTY LOCATIONS:[/TD] [TD]4 vacancy(s) - Biloxi, MS United StatesView Map[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]WHO MAY BE CONSIDERED:[/TD] [TD]United States Citizens[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] JOB SUMMARY: Vacancy Identification Number (VIN): 625789 Salary: To be determined by a Compensation Panel. The position serves the Acute Mental Health Unit of the psychiatry service. The successful incumbent, along with three other midlevel practitioners, will cover the needs of the Veterans on this unit during afterhours, weekends and holidays on rotating shifts. An occasional rotation in medicine service is also included. In addition the incumbent will be asked to consult on the psychiatric needs of Veterans admitted to the Facility’s Emergency Department, medical floors and other sections of this 150 bed VA facility. The problem is with the way that PA pay is structure in the VA. PAs are paid along the GS scale which limits what you can make. Nurses are pain on the nursing scale which is market driven. In reality what the VA does is uses various retention bonuses to increase the PA pay until its compareable to the NP pay. Its just a painful process. Its one of the things that the new VA director or PA services is working on. However, to change the pay scale to market driven takes an act of congress. Again one of the things AAPA has been lobbying for for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdant Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Anyone know if the VA offers physician assistants medical insurance for you and spouse after you retire? Jared The problem is with the way that PA pay is structure in the VA. PAs are paid along the GS scale which limits what you can make. Nurses are pain on the nursing scale which is market driven. In reality what the VA does is uses various retention bonuses to increase the PA pay until its compareable to the NP pay. Its just a painful process. Its one of the things that the new VA director or PA services is working on. However, to change the pay scale to market driven takes an act of congress. Again one of the things AAPA has been lobbying for for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 13, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 13, 2012 another issue is that your part of the country (LA, MS, MO) is notoriously unfriendly to pa's. when I started my career as a pa we couldn't even be licensed in MS. it was the only state pa's had no professional recognition in. even now I think there are less than 100 pa's in practice there. I know the LA medical board hates pa's. personally I couldn't work in a state that didn't appreciate me. there are enough states with good pa legislation that the abuse is not worth it just to live close to friends/family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanna.nola Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 I agree with you EMEDPA. And it would be hard to recruit folks here that had other choices. Alas, I love New Orleans and the Gulf Coast too much, so I guess I'll have to stick around and either be part of creating change or banging my head against the wall. One thing I've heard on MS: since they were SOOOO late to the game, when they finally acknowledged PAs, they adopted AAPA model legislation. They also just started a PA school last year in Jackson. So sometimes when you are so late, you come out ahead. Not true in Louisiana (its own beast entirely), we seem to be going backward. (You are right the board hates us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeg Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Yes they do. I retired from the VA last year and my health insurance continues as before. We still pay the same monthly premium we did before I retire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsfelder0417 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 It does take forever for the bonuses to even things out. Hopefully that is worked out soon enough, but i'm not holding my breath. I have considered working for the VA often, after hearing the people that i've served with lamenting how they could not connect with their providers because most of them are FMG's with no military experience. When I asked, most of them responded very positively to the idea of another veteran taking care of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanna.nola Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 That's unfortunate, jsfelder. The VA needs to hear more stories like yours. I'm not a vet myself, but my dad was a Marine and my sister was in the Army. I'd like to be considered by the VA, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsfelder0417 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Money isn't all, so I may end up working for the VA yet. Still have a few years until I cross that bridge, so i'll figure it out when I get there. The VA does consider and employ civilians as well. Vets are given a slight advantage via veterans preference points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 15, 2012 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2012 if you get a job with the va you can also ask to transition in the same position to being a phs officer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68W2PA Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 At my local VA, they are paid about the same. PAs are GS 12-13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsfelder0417 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well ain't that a daisy, I did not know that. I haven't given much thought to the PHS. The ability to lateral is pretty neat though, I'd imagine one could land some pretty interesting gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Davenport Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I may be wrong but I was told something different than what you are all saying. I was told the VA nurses, as a group, did a big study or pay analysis and in it were able to position themselves into a higher pay scale. I was told this by a high ranking VA administrator when i asked the same question. The fractionated PA VA workers have not done the same. We simply complain. Reality is, nurses are well organized and use their muscle to create positive change for themselves. We are not. We can't even agree on a name. Want equal pay, step up and do the study that show your value. A statistically significant study. Just my thoughts. It's time for our 80,000 plus members to unite!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 17, 2013 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2013 if you get a job with the va you can also ask to transition in the same position to being a phs officer.... Is this true with any VA position? How do you go about doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I may be wrong but I was told something different than what you are all saying. I was told the VA nurses, as a group, did a big study or pay analysis and in it were able to position themselves into a higher pay scale. I was told this by a high ranking VA administrator when i asked the same question. The fractionated PA VA workers have not done the same. We simply complain. Reality is, nurses are well organized and use their muscle to create positive change for themselves. We are not. We can't even agree on a name. Want equal pay, step up and do the study that show your value. A statistically significant study. Just my thoughts. It's time for our 80,000 plus members to unite!!! Absolutely agree with you. 80,000 of us need to unite and start our own advocacy in lock step. Indian Health Service pay scale grades are same as VA and the NP salaries have been a little higher than PAs. The IHS seems to recognize nurses (at all degree levels) much more than PAs. They have the numbers and people in position to keep nursing on the forefront. How do PAs get united? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 17, 2013 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2013 Because they are health care providers and we are assistants...... (I am being very sarcastic....) Because the national nursing lobby is effective, and AAPA is --- well they are only minimally effective.... Because there is more NP's and RN's that have made their way into Admin and they are supporting their own NOTE - this can be overcome by figuring out who the MD/DO head of the department is and getting your CV in front of them..... but this is a PIA in the VA as you basically can only ever talk to HR Overall the nursing lobby is just more polished and effective.... nothing that can't be changed though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted August 17, 2013 Moderator Share Posted August 17, 2013 Is this true with any VA position? How do you go about doing that? you have to be eligible for comissioning(less than age 44, meet physical requirements, pass govt background check, etc). I was seriously considering this for awhile until I became too old for comissioning. I would have done the PHS reserve but they still have yet to get it off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeg Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Anyone know if the VA offers physician assistants medical insurance for you and spouse after you retire? Jared Yes. I retired from the VA and have full medical insurance for me and my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.