New surgeon general is a nurse. Bad news for us or nothing?

[cg02186]

https://www.surgeongeneral.gov/about/biographies/biosg.html

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Well, I guess an old dog can learn a new trick.  I never knew a nurse could serve as a "surgeon" general.

[Timon]

I was truly hoping they were going to give it to Dr Nick...

[CoastalPalm]

Well, I guess an old dog can learn a new trick.  I never knew a nurse could serve as a "surgeon" general.

 

 

Not all surgeons general have been "surgeons".  Vivek Murthy himself was not a "surgeon".  

[Guest HanSolo]

Probably nothing. If anything, might help advocate for mid-levels in general. 

[sk732]

Well, I guess an old dog can learn a new trick.  I never knew a nurse could serve as a "surgeon" general.

 

There was a time in the Canadian Armed Forces (for a few years) where the Surg Gen was actually the "Director General Health Services", since they chose not to promote any physicians above the rank of full Colonel at that  point - the "Surg Gen" was actually a Col physician.  The DGHS was a Health Services Operations Officer - something RN's or Health Care Admin officers become if they want command appointments.  I understand that the Surg Gen in the US is a USPHS position (though the REAL military does have their own for each of the Branches with supporting medical services) and it's an appointment/title, but the implication of "Surgeon" means that the person holding that title is a physician.  The title for non physicians should be along the lines of DG USPHS if they're not one, in my (foreign) opinion.  Semantics?  Maybe...but perceptions/optics do mean a lot.

 

SK

[GetMeOuttaThisMess]

Misspoke. Should have said physician as opposed to surgeon specifically.

[mmiller3]

Probably nothing. If anything, might help advocate for mid-levels in general. 

 

How so? Does she have a track record of advocating for non-physician practitioners? What leads you to believe her appointment would be of any help to us as PAs or "mid-levels in general"?

[Reality Check 2]

I am naive - I thought the Surgeon General was ALWAYS a physician. I did not know that anyone on the team who could become THE Surgeon General was anything other than a physician.

 

So, learning curve in motion here. 

 

Not to hijack the thread - but I am more disappointed that this administration chose to force someone out based on who appointed him rather than qualifications and ideals.

 

Not good for our society or for continuity. Very ugly partisanship.

 

So, I do not envy this woman her new job under these circumstances. I hope she can hold up the ideals of medicine despite politics.

 

I would like to learn more about the process, the office, the corp, their uniforms and medals, etc. 

[LKPAC]

I don't see how this harms us.  Another door has been opened for a non-physician to fill a role previously only filled by a physician.  Many of us PAs have filled roles that were previously physician-only.  

[PAMEDIC]

 I understand that the Surg Gen in the US is a USPHS position (though the REAL military does have their own for each of the Branches with supporting medical services) and it's an appointment/title, but the implication of "Surgeon" means that the person holding that title is a physician.  The title for non physicians should be along the lines of DG USPHS if they're not one, in my (foreign) opinion.  Semantics?  Maybe...but perceptions/optics do mean a lot.

 

SK

 

FWIW, the term Surgeon in the uniformed services is a pretty loose term. As a PA in the Army, I often referred to as the Battalion Surgeon. Aeromedical PAs are also referred to as Flight Surgeons.

Also, the last Surgeon General of the Army was a nurse.

[sk732]

Like I said, here they actually did away with a Surg Gen for a number of years until they promoted a doc high enough to be called one again.  There was also the issue of a Col showing up for conferences with a pile of stars and not fitting in...  I have my doubts, now that they've commissioned PA's here in the CAF, that they'd be allowed to be Surg Gen...kinda surprised there wasn't push back in the Army title wise. 

 

When you say aeromedical = Flight Surgeon, do you mean being a flight medic vs being able to do flight medicals for aircrew, participate in flight accident investigations, etc?  I'm winged aeromedical evacuation here, but it doesn't equate flight surgeon - that's a totally different course, as Flight Surgeons determine fitness to fly and gain a Transport Canada cert to do that - AME is flight medic/nurse/doc as back end aircrew, so a lot of knowing your way around the C130's and other airframes used.  I have my Advanced Diving Medical Officer dolphins - but my sig line was ADMT vs ADMO - Medical Officers are docs (and at that time, PA's were Warrant Officers, a SNCO rank in Canada [E7 and above equivalent]), not PA's...I eventually got to change the sig line to ADMPA.

 

As a battalion surgeon, you're the de facto "doc" in the eyes of the CO, much the same when I or my colleagues are/were on independent duty...you just have a Medical Service Corps badge vice Medical Corps IIRC (ours isn't any different - a thing that bugs me a bit, as if you see a medical hat badge, you assume they're a medic, PA, doc or nurse...not an admin, lab tech, physio or P Med tech).  You have the same duties/responsibilities as a medical officer.  The Surg Gen, while really a figure head, is still assumed, by title, to be a medical officer (title and optics), regardless of the fact they're, in reality, the senior officer of the medical branch in their Service.  When people go off on the NATO Surg Gen conferences, much like my previous example of our "Surgeon Colonel", if they're not an MD, I think you'll find they're excluded from some things to a point, hence the CAF getting that senior appointment back.

 

We talk a lot here how degree creep has come into the various professions to make people Dr 's, more so to change the optics of how we're perceived by patients - the military title "Surgeon" has those same optics that go with it...if you or an NP introduce themselves as "Dr PA/NP/Drug Pusher", people just assume you're an MD/DO, vice DMSc or HSc/DNP/PharmD.

 

Just my take and $0.02

 

SK 

[PAMEDIC]

...

 

When you say aeromedical = Flight Surgeon, do you mean being a flight medic vs being able to do flight medicals for aircrew, participate in flight accident investigations, etc?  I'm winged aeromedical evacuation here, but it doesn't equate flight surgeon - that's a totally different course, as Flight Surgeons determine fitness to fly and gain a Transport Canada cert to do that - AME is flight medic/nurse/doc as back end aircrew, so a lot of knowing your way around the C130's and other airframes used.

...

 

The latter.

APA-Cs serve as Flight Surgeons, not flight medics, though they are allowed to fly on MEDEVAC missions if they want.