Regions of the country that are now absolutely saturated with PA's & NP's?

[BruceBanner]

^Yep, this is it in a nutshell. 

 

Most people are unwilling or unable to move in order to get optimal compensation and job availability.

 

Specialty, location, compensation. Pick two is the general rule. Of course there are exceptions, but exceptions do not make a rule!!

[GreatChecko]

Other parts of Florida pay better, especially outside of the popular metro areas... In my previous life as a pilot, South Florida was also well known for low pay and scumbag operators as well. Having grown up there, it doesn't surprise me either.

[bike mike]

 

South Florida has already bottomed out. Just saw this listing on Indeed.com:

 

Physician Assistant 

US medical Care Inc - Boca Raton, FL 

$50,000 - $60,000 a year

PA required for busy Practice with emphasis on Wellness. Well run practice with excellent reputation. In east Boca Raton , great benefits including health care and ownership benefits after 3 years. Practice established for over 15 years. Good mix of ages, insurance and direct pay.

Job Type: Full-time

Salary: $50,000.00 to $60,000.00 /year

Required experience:

• on job: 2 years

Required license or certification:

• Florida License

 

I worked crazy hours (65-70 hrs/wk) was paid $50K for my first job out of PA school - it was a residency. 

[123]

I was talking with a few PA's the other day and we were discussing area's that are, or will soon be saturated by APP's.  In our area, DFW, we are at that point.  For every job (in UC) listed, there are now 20+ applicants, most with 5 years < experience.  Because of this, we are starting to see a significant decrease in wages, not to mention an absolute gutting of benefits.  Health, CME, vacation are all a shadows of their former offerings.

 

I was curious what regions/cities around the country have reached the point were we are at DFW.  It might be helpful for those thinking about moving to a saturated area to know ahead of time what they are getting into.

Is it like this for all specialties or are there certain specialties where the competition is less fierce? I'm hoping to stay in DFW for the foreseeable future and this is kind of disheartening 

[Katera]

Is it like this for all specialties or are there certain specialties where the competition is less fierce? I'm hoping to stay in DFW for the foreseeable future and this is kind of disheartening 

 

 

 

Def for Urgent Care.  ER also very tough to crack according to the other PA I was talking to, and he did an ER residency!  Derm is also a non-starter in DFW.

[Katera]

Job availability and demand vary wildly by location. If you look through all the posts you will see the market is saturated where people want to be. South Florida? Duh... warm weather beaches, Disney.

I have worked in rural areas in East Texas for 20 years and find there aren't enough hours in the day for everyone that wanted me to do PRN for them. I did PRN only for a couple of years and typically made $75/h in primary carer. One internist in Paris Tx wanted me so bad he offered me $110/hr. This is in an area where I bought a 3300 nice sf house for 143k. 

So you have to make some choices. If you want to live in a desirable area or you are geographically restricted for personal or family reasons you then your options are limited. If you are willing to go somewhere else that isn't crowded with PAs you can do so much more. It is all about deciding what is more important to you.

 

 

But but...that's in East Texas!?

 

 LOL just kidding.  My good friend is from Longview area ;)

[greenmood]

Four years ago when I was looking in Chicago it was terrible. So many new grads. My offers there were all in subspecialty surgery, and I remember turning one down only to find that they offered it to a classmate literally the next day. They just have lines of applicants and they WILL find someone foolish or desperate enough to take the crap offer. Neurosurgery, running an epilepsy ward at night, for less than 70K per year. Ridiculous.

 

I moved.

[Ollivander]

Other parts of Florida pay better, especially outside of the popular metro areas... In my previous life as a pilot, South Florida was also well known for low pay and scumbag operators as well. Having grown up there, it doesn't surprise me either.

How's Northwest Florida around the panhandle?

[stellahead]

Latest verbal offer: gastroenterology. $75,000, clinic 8 to 5, hospital rounding before clinic begins, weeknight call (no weekend call). Standard health, malpractice, 401K, CME. I pressed on the salary. "But, no weekend call. That makes up for it."

[south]

clinic 8 to 5, hospital rounding before clinic begins, 

 

"thanks for considering me, but..."

 

NW Florida is okay, I think.  I have a friend that went there as a new grad in UC.  He took an okay offer I think in the 85 range but the hours and setup were manageable.  

[GreatChecko]

How's Northwest Florida around the panhandle?

 

I think it's pretty good up here. I'm in EM and while not perfect, I'm quite happy right now. 

[Ollivander]

I think it's pretty good up here. I'm in EM and while not perfect, I'm quite happy right now. 

Awesome! That's where I'm hoping to attempt to land a job after PA school. My family is from the area so I was hoping it wouldn't be as bad as South Florida. Either that or I'll head to Nevada or Texas for a couple of years and try to save up.

[HmTwoPA]

This is crazy. I talked to plenty of new grads here in Phoenix that make 150-180. I look at job postings stating 147-157 plus productivity bonuses. I always thought that all these national averages of 95k were off compared to everyone I was talking to. Now I realize that other places are just dragging it down. I met a PA out here who was incredibly offended when a hospital offered her 65 an hour, if that clues you into the money PAs make out here. I'm not saying Phoenix is the best place to live but if your looking for somewhat affordable housing and good pay...

[Katera]

Awesome! That's where I'm hoping to attempt to land a job after PA school. My family is from the area so I was hoping it wouldn't be as bad as South Florida. Either that or I'll head to Nevada or Texas for a couple of years and try to save up.

 

Stay away from Carespot Urgent Care up there.  They are awful.

[Katera]

This is crazy. I talked to plenty of new grads here in Phoenix that make 150-180. I look at job postings stating 147-157 plus productivity bonuses. I always thought that all these national averages of 95k were off compared to everyone I was talking to. Now I realize that other places are just dragging it down. I met a PA out here who was incredibly offended when a hospital offered her 65 an hour, if that clues you into the money PAs make out here. I'm not saying Phoenix is the best place to live but if your looking for somewhat affordable housing and good pay...

 

 

We had actually considered retiring in Fountain Hills.  Never been there, but the housing is nice and scenery around the mountains and hills looks very nice.

[Guest ral]

Stay away from Carespot Urgent Care up there.  They are awful.

Interesting that you mention Carespot. What is your opinion on MedPost/Carespot clinics in the DFW area? I interviewed, then after almost two weeks, had to press for them to respond, and finally received a standardized ”We don't have a match for you at this time..." email. Funny thing is, the interview flowed extremely well, and I brought a lot of experience to the table. One of those where you walk out thinking, "Nailed it!" Over a month later, I noticed they were still/again advertising, so I pleasantly followed up with an email mentioning the opening, asking if they would take a second look, etc. Nothing. No response. No email. No phone call. No "Go f#*% yourself."

I refuse to beg for a job.

As far as locums: I have pursued that avenue relentlessly. They all told me they would have more work than I could handle, would keep me very busy, etc. Of the two or three that I have stuck with through the onboarding process, none have offered up anything even remotely promising. The lastest just this morning, when I sent a follow up asking if anything new had popped up, was about four days of work at the end of May. The last week of May! Four days! What happened to the "more work than you can handle."? I am seriously starting to regard them as trustworthy as a back alley car deal with no title. Lies. "Tell 'em what it takes to get them on the hook."

[Ollivander]

This is crazy. I talked to plenty of new grads here in Phoenix that make 150-180. I look at job postings stating 147-157 plus productivity bonuses. I always thought that all these national averages of 95k were off compared to everyone I was talking to. Now I realize that other places are just dragging it down. I met a PA out here who was incredibly offended when a hospital offered her 65 an hour, if that clues you into the money PAs make out here. I'm not saying Phoenix is the best place to live but if your looking for somewhat affordable housing and good pay...

Phoenix has places offering 140K+ to new grads? No joke?

[LPZ]

Phoenix has places offering 140K+ to new grads? No joke?

I know. This seems pretty high. Was it in surgery? Some other specialty? Phoenix is hotter than hell, but for that salary...

[south]

Citation needed, please.  I've been applying to jobs and interviewing here in Phoenix full time since January and have yet to see anything even on that same planet.  

[GreatChecko]

Those numbers might make sense for a surgical subspecialty, but there would have to be some pretty intense market forces at work to drive the pay rates that high otherwise. Phoenix gets hot, but its actually a pretty nice part of the country. I'm interested to hear more as well. 

[HmTwoPA]

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Good-Health-Financial/jobs/Physician-Assistant-fbefc9f99da97a92?q=physician+assistant

 

and also from 3 PA's I talked to that live here.

 

2 of them working in ER and one working in psych that all made around 180 last year. The one in psych made over 200 but admits he was working a lot of hours for that. Phoenix has over 4 million people living here and only 3 programs. The need is here especially due to the poverty and elderly.

[Ollivander]

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Good-Health-Financial/jobs/Physician-Assistant-fbefc9f99da97a92?q=physician+assistant

 

and also from 3 PA's I talked to that live here.

 

2 of them working in ER and one working in psych that all made around 180 last year. The one in psych made over 200 but admits he was working a lot of hours for that. Phoenix has over 4 million people living here and only 3 programs. The need is here especially due to the poverty and elderly.

Well I know where I'm heading when I get done with my schooling. Scottsdale turn up.

[south]

Okay, wow, but that's the first I've seen something even close to that, and they require a year experience so it's probably solo coverage.  Not my thing - I turned down a solo coverage UC job interview as a new grad (they eventually offered six weeks shadowing) and they were talking 110-112.  Not my thing, maybe in a few years.

 

Salaries are a bit above average here but that ad is not the norm, assuming it's real, it's a good 30% higher than anything else I have seen or heard of.  My offers (as a new grad across various specialties) ranged from 95-106k.  I'm sure experienced PAs do quite well here.

 

ER and Psych do pay very well, but that's everywhere.  We have three programs, of 70, 75, and 25 seats, so 170 new grads hit the streets q/year.

 

I didn't choose to live or come back here, but there's nothing wrong with it.  The heat is no big deal and it's only for a few months anyway, and since half the population goes back to Chicago then, it's most people's favorite time of year...

[Ollivander]

Okay, wow, but that's the first I've seen something even close to that, and they require a year experience so it's probably solo coverage.  Not my thing - I turned down a solo coverage UC job interview as a new grad (they eventually offered six weeks shadowing) and they were talking 110-112.  Not my thing, maybe in a few years.

 

Salaries are a bit above average here but that ad is not the norm, assuming it's real, it's a good 30% higher than anything else I have seen or heard of.  My offers (as a new grad across various specialties) ranged from 95-106k.  I'm sure experienced PAs do quite well here.

 

ER and Psych do pay very well, but that's everywhere.  We have three programs, of 70, 75, and 25 seats, so 170 new grads hit the streets q/year.

 

I didn't choose to live or come back here, but there's nothing wrong with it.  The heat is no big deal and it's only for a few months anyway, and since half the population goes back to Chicago then, it's most people's favorite time of year...

What's the deal with the AZ > Chicago connection? I know a lot of people from the Chicago area that ended up moving to Arizona but I never gave much thought to it.

[south]

I dunno.  We have a number of New Yorkers here also, but nothing like south Florida does.  

 

Now that I think about it, it's like AZ = 8:1 Chicago: NY   and south florida is like 12:1:1 NY: Chicago:Canada

 

You go to a sports event playing a NY or Chicago team and you have to kind of look to find home colors