Salary Comparison

[vcoop07]

Hi all, 

 

I am hoping to go to my administration in attempts to get a raise. While I have information from the salary report and other sources and median salary so I know my worth, I think it is important to show what other people in my field are making. For some background, I am a PA working in a city hospital in Chicago. I work full time in neurosurgery and have 5+ years of experience. I am currently making 90K. Any info would be helpful!

[NYCPAC]

What's your call schedule like? Are you working all days or nights? Benefits? You are pretty underpaid especially for such a speciality

 

 

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[NYCPAC]

And just for reference purposes my good friend from pa school has 3yrs experience now working for a nsgy group in a hospital on the east coast (not an expensive city or completely rural area either) making $125k

 

 

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[vcoop07]

I am full time, all days. No call.

[stellahead]

$130 after three years is what I've heard is the norm. I'm 2 years in neurosurgery and am at $100. I live in the abysmal job market of South Florida, so I can't complain. 

[Katera]

90k is low low low

[KMD16]

OP.

 

More info needed

 

What's your call schedule like?

 

# days first assisting & days in the office?

 

Is there resident in house or PA runs the show?

 

Your overall package ( bennies etc).

 

A little more details will be helpful.

 

Will say at 5 yrs in neurosurgery, 90K is low and an insult!

[cinntsp]

90k for neurosurgery is really low.

[vcoop07]

OP.

 

More info needed

 

What's your call schedule like?

 

# days first assisting & days in the office?

 

Is there resident in house or PA runs the show?

 

Your overall package ( bennies etc).

 

A little more details will be helpful.

 

Will say at 5 yrs in neurosurgery, 90K is low and an insult!

No call. Work only weekdays. No residents in house to we manage inpatient, outpatient, and in the OR. I work with one other PA and we alternate OR time. We have 3 attending physicians. We get 4 weeks PTO which is amazing but I also never use. We get $1000 for CME a year. 

 

Thanks for any input. Im just trying to get an idea of other work places!

[KMD16]

Other Bennies like 401K/403b @ what % match. Medical ins?

 

Will ask for 120-150K range.

[vcoop07]

Other Bennies like 401K/403b @ what % match. Medical ins?

 

Will ask for 120-150K range.

yes 403b, matches only up to 2% for 3% saved

[vcoop07]

I should mention that the hospital that I work in is an inner city hospital. I wouldnt expect to get paid a ton but I just want it to be competitive.

[EMEDPA]

any surgical field under 100k unless in residency and you are being taken advantage of...

[mmiller3]

I should mention that the hospital that I work in is an inner city hospital. I wouldnt expect to get paid a ton but I just want it to be competitive.

 

Why would you not expect to get paid? I live in the Chicago suburbs; the only draw to inner city jobs is the pay (for most people). Less desirable work area, long commutes/expensive living...if you are not getting paid well, why not take a job outside the city? We have a neuro position open at my facility that I guarantee makes more than that (not sure if it is surgery off the top of my head).

[KMD16]

OP

 

I can guarantee you with your 5 years experience in neurosurgery, if you take that experience somewhere else, you will command a lot of salary.

 

Advise. Look for neurosurgery opening. Send in your CV and see if they will bit. You will get a sense of current market in terms of salary in your area.

[Guest JMPA]

No call. Work only weekdays. No residents in house to we manage inpatient, outpatient, and in the OR. I work with one other PA and we alternate OR time. We have 3 attending physicians. We get 4 weeks PTO which is amazing but I also never use. We get $1000 for CME a year. 

 

Thanks for any input. Im just trying to get an idea of other work places!

6 weeks vacation and minimum 1800 yr cme is the norm. i hope you are getting a percentage of billing/collections

[KMD16]

i hope you are getting a percentage of billing/collections

NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE!

 

You're paid a base salary

[ventana]

Really tough

 

You are WAY underpaid

 

I have seen health care systems get and defend a bias towards what PA's are worth and get paid. This is a system wide bias and very hard to break/re-educate.

 

The AAPA salary report is a double edged sword - is bias towards new grads last time I studied it (look at the data) and I get the sense of the high earners just don't do that any more.... As well all they will do is 'maybe' get you to the 50% and say that is it - on data that is likely 2 years old takes collecting it, processing it, then realeasing it and this literally adds 2 years.......

 

So I would be careful with AAPA data

 

More important I think it presenting your worth in the amount you bill. Medicare data for a few years ago is public (search for it online)

Request you full billing and receipts (might be very hard to attain) and don't be surprised if your #'s are a lot lower then you think - as you are likely speeding up the doc - doing scut work, and the doc is billing under him/herself for your work...

 

So you start to request to only bill under your own pin, track your procedures (you can back into revenue generated by using medicare data on assist fee's and rounding and office visits). They try to focus on maximizing your billing under your own pin.

 

A side note - I have seen a number of PA's that felt they were way underpaid - but then when you actually looked at what they are generating for for revenue that might be getting paid to much. This is changeable, but it takes an awareness of what generates revenue and billing for it..... extra time spent, billing multiple codes, understanding what is a global period -and letting the doc cover teh office visits in the global period - or demanding that you get credit for them..... lots of issues

 

BUT the most powerful - but sort of single shot way - is to go get another offer - and demand they meet it or else you resign. This is sort of a one shot deal, and you have to be able to walk away......

 

 

 

 

 

In my own expereience - only when the ENTIRE hospital system was struggling to hire doc's, then unable to hire PA's due to substandard wage offerings, did they look at the PA wages and make them much more competitive. OF course even this was driven by the almighty buck as they realized it was easier to increase the PA pay scale, and not hire as many doc's....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck! Tough spot

[UpRegulated]

Hi all, 

 

I am hoping to go to my administration in attempts to get a raise. While I have information from the salary report and other sources and median salary so I know my worth, I think it is important to show what other people in my field are making. For some background, I am a PA working in a city hospital in Chicago. I work full time in neurosurgery and have 5+ years of experience. I am currently making 90K. Any info would be helpful!

 

If "any" info is helpful, as you have stated in your post, then here's my info.

 

Going to an Internet discussion forum for salary and compensation advice is pointless.  You are basically posting an Internet poll in which people self-select.  The result is that you only get those on the higher-end of the salary scale to respond (essentially the boasters -- admit it boasters!). :)  People that have low salaries are generally not going to post to this thread, just as they generally don't respond to formal surveys.  That does not even account for the fact that salaries are very dependent on (1) region, (2) experience, (3) specialty/sub-specialty, (4) hours, (5) benefits, (6) PRN vs. part-time vs. full-time, (7) market supply and demand, and (8) et cetera.

 

I am a completely clueless, poorly trained, inadequately trained frenemy (e.g. a nurse practitioner), so take my advice for what its worth. :)

[KMD16]

^^ WRONG!

[beattie228]

While I agree with Up about selection error in terms of who responds to questions like this and that salary can be location dependent, I disagree about it being pointless to post to a forum such as this. Often in our professional lives, it may be difficult to have a colleague we can turn to in order to ask such personal questions about pay and benefits. I feel there is utility in having some transparency in regards to benefits that should be industry standard (i.e. CME money/time, PTO, licensing fees, etc). Exact data in terms of expected salary for a specific field of medicine may not be feasible, but certainly folks can chime in to let this individual know 90k for a surgical sub-specialty with 5+ years experience is far below the usual trend.

[ap1249]

I would say it's low--when I was searching in 2015, I got a NS offer of 96k in the Chicago suburbs.  I ended up going with something else and didn't even try to negotiate with them, but probably could have negotiated up to at least 100k.  This was as a new grad.  

[vcoop07]

Really tough

 

You are WAY underpaid

 

I have seen health care systems get and defend a bias towards what PA's are worth and get paid. This is a system wide bias and very hard to break/re-educate.

 

The AAPA salary report is a double edged sword - is bias towards new grads last time I studied it (look at the data) and I get the sense of the high earners just don't do that any more.... As well all they will do is 'maybe' get you to the 50% and say that is it - on data that is likely 2 years old takes collecting it, processing it, then realeasing it and this literally adds 2 years.......

 

So I would be careful with AAPA data

 

More important I think it presenting your worth in the amount you bill. Medicare data for a few years ago is public (search for it online)

Request you full billing and receipts (might be very hard to attain) and don't be surprised if your #'s are a lot lower then you think - as you are likely speeding up the doc - doing scut work, and the doc is billing under him/herself for your work...

 

So you start to request to only bill under your own pin, track your procedures (you can back into revenue generated by using medicare data on assist fee's and rounding and office visits). They try to focus on maximizing your billing under your own pin.

 

A side note - I have seen a number of PA's that felt they were way underpaid - but then when you actually looked at what they are generating for for revenue that might be getting paid to much. This is changeable, but it takes an awareness of what generates revenue and billing for it..... extra time spent, billing multiple codes, understanding what is a global period -and letting the doc cover teh office visits in the global period - or demanding that you get credit for them..... lots of issues

 

BUT the most powerful - but sort of single shot way - is to go get another offer - and demand they meet it or else you resign. This is sort of a one shot deal, and you have to be able to walk away......

 

 

 

 

 

In my own expereience - only when the ENTIRE hospital system was struggling to hire doc's, then unable to hire PA's due to substandard wage offerings, did they look at the PA wages and make them much more competitive. OF course even this was driven by the almighty buck as they realized it was easier to increase the PA pay scale, and not hire as many doc's....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck! Tough spot

Thank you this is extremely helpful. We have discussed PA biling at our hospital with more merit based salary goals which I 

would appreciate, but agree will bring up many issues (and honestly we are far away from doing properly). I think you are right, the most powerful tool is getting another offer because all the salary reaseach wont speak as much as another higher offer at a similar job in my area. 

[vcoop07]

If "any" info is helpful, as you have stated in your post, then here's my info.

 

Going to an Internet discussion forum for salary and compensation advice is pointless.  You are basically posting an Internet poll in which people self-select.  The result is that you only get those on the higher-end of the salary scale to respond (essentially the boasters -- admit it boasters!). :)  People that have low salaries are generally not going to post to this thread, just as they generally don't respond to formal surveys.  That does not even account for the fact that salaries are very dependent on (1) region, (2) experience, (3) specialty/sub-specialty, (4) hours, (5) benefits, (6) PRN vs. part-time vs. full-time, (7) market supply and demand, and (8) et cetera.

 

I am a completely clueless, poorly trained, inadequately trained frenemy (e.g. a nurse practitioner), so take my advice for what its worth. :)

I obviously have done the research and looked at salary websites in regards to region, experience, specialty. I am asking my peers for their experiences which I cant find on a salary website. 

[vcoop07]

While I agree with Up about selection error in terms of who responds to questions like this and that salary can be location dependent, I disagree about it being pointless to post to a forum such as this. Often in our professional lives, it may be difficult to have a colleague we can turn to in order to ask such personal questions about pay and benefits. I feel there is utility in having some transparency in regards to benefits that should be industry standard (i.e. CME money/time, PTO, licensing fees, etc). Exact data in terms of expected salary for a specific field of medicine may not be feasible, but certainly folks can chime in to let this individual know 90k for a surgical sub-specialty with 5+ years experience is far below the usual trend.

exactly!