ERCH04 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Hello, new poster here. I was offered a contract with the ER where I did my emergency medicine rotation. Good fit, willing to train, and they are familiar with having new grad PAs in the department. Overview: - 85,000 for 40 hours/week in 9 or 10 hour shifts, very affordable cost of living, 10% annual raise for first 5 years. - 1 year contract renewed annually - No PTO - $3000 CME/Business expenses - Retirement plan 100% paid by medical group at 20% of your earnings (ex: earn 80k and receive 16k) - Medical, dental, and disability - Malpractice coverage with tail Non-negotiable contract, all new PAs are offered same salary with same rate of pay increase. Any feedback appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewconvert Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 That's a pretty sick retirement package, but no PTO is a recipe for burn out. 40/week in 10/hour shifts doesn't give you an easy way to get significant time off for vacation. So max amount of time off seems to be 6 days without cutting in to your salary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERCH04 Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 That's a pretty sick retirement package, but no PTO is a recipe for burn out. 40/week in 10/hour shifts doesn't give you an easy way to get significant time off for vacation. So max amount of time off seems to be 6 days without cutting in to your salary Yeah, no PTO is unfortunate. Hard to sacrifice pay as a new grad for a vacation when you have loans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_PA Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 As a new (6 months in) ER PA, 40 hours a week may burn you out depending on the number and acuity of patients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyNameWasUsed Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 80k for ED work is too low. Don't do it. Don't sell yourself short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Pay and PTO are horrible, quite frankly they can shove those somewhere kinda non-negotiable. Have you tried negotiating the PTO, even a week, or even unpaid? Sometimes non-negotiable means just the salary. I WILL say that it might be reasonable to take this one on the chin for a year, since EM is notoriously hard for a new grad to break into. Around your 11th month, start looking somewhere else with a year's experience in your pocket. Or maybe they will pony up something decent for you next year vs. replacing you with another new grad. Otherwise...no thanks. Even if you do this, I'd look for 4-10 hour shifts so you get three days off every week. None of this going into work another day for four hours crap. What's the vestment period for the retirement, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERCH04 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 The plan would be to work 4 shifts a week average which is something I like. The pay is definitely sub-par, but I may have to bite the bullet to get my foot in the door at a place I know is a good fit. I may see if I can negotiate some PTO though. I believe the vestment period is 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaijyn Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 The pay is horrible. I get the training aspect but that is ~$39/hr. That is BAD for ER. That is like new grad Fam-Med pay. No PTO and horrible salary is bad. IF they said 80k for a year with increase in rate to ~$60/hr after would be understandable. Even with 10% increase your pay would breakdown to the following numbers: 88k (yr2), 96.6k (yr3), 106.2k (yr4), and 116.8k (yr5). That is still only ~$58/hr after 5 long years of dedication. That is pretty bad man. If you want to do it then that is your call but seriously they will be making a lot of money off you and you will leave a lot of money on the table. Even with an RVU it would be a horrible pay situation. If it is a perfect fit and you have some situation where you do not need the money, do it for a year to get the experience then leave. Burnout is a very real thing in the ER (even fresh out) and you will be getting the very short end of the stick. Good Luck man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 28, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2017 by taking a crappy offer all we do is undermine EVERY OTHER PA OU THERE think about it - why would they ever increase anything if they still can hire at their crappy rates??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAtoB Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 My new-grad classmates are making anywhere from around $50ish to mid 60s hourly rate. With PTO of some sort, with benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anewconvert Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 $80k is admittedly low, but that 20% retirement contribution is a $16k contribution on year one. So an equivalent salary with a typical contribution (5%) is more like $90k.... without the contractual 10% salary increase every year It's not great, but it's not terrible. In 5 years that is $116k/yr with a retirement contribution of $23k before the OP contributes a penny. The retirement value after 5 years is totals something around $85k (quickly head calc). Find me another job that contributes nearly $85k to retirement in the first 5 years of employment.... that's an insane retirement contribution. If the OP never contributed to retirement again that initial investment is worth almost $400k after 30 years at 5%. As I see it the only thing that sucks really bad is the lack of PTO and the 40 hr weeks. If it's just an average of 40hr and the schedule can be manipulated for time off... it's not nearly as bad. Find out what the vesting period is for the retirement and if the schedule is flexible or if they really expect 4 shifts a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERCH04 Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 $80k is admittedly low, but that 20% retirement contribution is a $16k contribution on year one. So an equivalent salary with a typical contribution (5%) is more like $90k.... without the contractual 10% salary increase every year It's not great, but it's not terrible. In 5 years that is $116k/yr with a retirement contribution of $23k before the OP contributes a penny. The retirement value after 5 years is totals something around $85k (quickly head calc). Find me another job that contributes nearly $85k to retirement in the first 5 years of employment.... that's an insane retirement contribution. If the OP never contributed to retirement again that initial investment is worth almost $400k after 30 years at 5%. As I see it the only thing that sucks really bad is the lack of PTO and the 40 hr weeks. If it's just an average of 40hr and the schedule can be manipulated for time off... it's not nearly as bad. Find out what the vesting period is for the retirement and if the schedule is flexible or if they really expect 4 shifts a week. This is how I was looking at it. The long term retirement contribution is unheard of, which may play into why they offer such a low starting salary. I asked about manipulating the schedule and they seem very flexible on that IE 3 shifts one week then 5 the next or whatever to average out to 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 31, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2017 I just left a job with so-so pay after 15 years. I agree the pay blows, but the 20% is like golden handcuffs. my deal was 25% all put in by employer and vested day 1. as you can imagine, after 15 years that is a nice nest egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 25% all put in by employer and vested day 1. CRIKEY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 40 hours a week in ER is going to burn especially if dragged out on a 5-7 day schedule. I vote for 10-12 hour shifts with the requirement to work 140-160 per month, however you work it. The PTO is not cool. The hourly is not good - $80K divided by 2080 hours in a year working = $38 an hour......... yuck. I saw too many UC providers work 7 days in a row at 12 hour shifts to get 7 days off in a row for vacation. Frankly, after the 3rd 12 hour shift - accuracy and insight go way down and mistakes go up as well as burn out. Then you just sleep through your vacation from exhaustion. People get sick or have family emergencies and PTO should be there to prevent a short paycheck. I have never in my career been offered a retirement like that. WOW, that is awesome. Makes the other things difficult to consider - too shiny and you keep looking at it. BUT, don't be distracted by the nuts and bolts - you can't retire anytime soon and should be able to enjoy life right now. Agree with EMEDPA - bad precedent to perpetuate for other PAs in community or industry. If we always settle then nothing improves and we still have no control. Just my old 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted February 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2017 CRIKEY! the pay setup was kind of a scam, though. low base pay then quarterly bonus based on production and group profit. so you could work your butt off and make no bonus if the group didn't show a profit because they bought equipment, made a donation to the hospital, etc. early on it was fair and actually quite good, but new blood got on the physician run board and gradually squeezed the PAs out of any kind of bonus. bonuses went from thousands per quarter to hundreds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1. Willing to train, familiar with new grads = hire for cheap and then new grads leave soon after so there's always an opening? 2. Bonus structure? 3. No PTO = no good... Easy recipe for burnout possibly leading to #1. 4. How long have PAs been there under that pay structure? 5. Do you start earning and get 100% vestment AT 2 years, or do you start earning the 20% right away but you're not 100% vested until after 2? 6. Is the offer to train, low pay, good retirement, NO PTO, low COL, medical benefits worth it? There's something to be said about a first job where you learn tons, but will you get burnt out and jaded before you can fully appreciate it and end up leaving before you can reap the retirement benefits? After all, trying to negotiate pay for a second job with only a 80k paying job under your belt will be difficult... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERCH04 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 1. Willing to train, familiar with new grads = hire for cheap and then new grads leave soon after so there's always an opening? 2. Bonus structure? 3. No PTO = no good... Easy recipe for burnout possibly leading to #1. 4. How long have PAs been there under that pay structure? 5. Do you start earning and get 100% vestment AT 2 years, or do you start earning the 20% right away but you're not 100% vested until after 2? 6. Is the offer to train, low pay, good retirement, NO PTO, low COL, medical benefits worth it? There's something to be said about a first job where you learn tons, but will you get burnt out and jaded before you can fully appreciate it and end up leaving before you can reap the retirement benefits? After all, trying to negotiate pay for a second job with only a 80k paying job under your belt will be difficult... Appreciate the feedback. I guess I am naive to the fact that 40 hours a week may result in burnout. I was more concerned about accepting a salary position in surgery (or whatever) and being forced to work 50 or 60 hours a week. I do feel obligated to get my foot in the door at this ER because the fit is so good (did rotation there, know the entire staff, 15 minutes from my house), rather than hold out for other local EM jobs that aren't hiring at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 40 hours per week may not result in burnout but 40 hours per week without any PTO might, even if you move around your shifts. How do they feel about you taking, say more than 5 days off in a row? If that's not an option, say goodbye to any vacations longer than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERCH04 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 40 hours per week may not result in burnout but 40 hours per week without any PTO might, even if you move around your shifts. How do they feel about you taking, say more than 5 days off in a row? If that's not an option, say goodbye to any vacations longer than that... They are flexible, certainly an option to coordinate 5+ days off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeTheBabe Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 When you factor in that crazy retirement package, the pay isn't bad at all. It's the no PTO that's really shitty. If they said they would pay 96K but don't do any 401K matching, would you take the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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